Atheism Plus/Free Thought Blogs (FTB)

[ApostateltsopA]

There were good reasons for Ophelia to remove the image. "However well-intentioned the reasons for posting it, the image might very well be in violation of (also well-intentioned) laws, with unpredictable and possibly severe consequences," for instance, is a good reason.

Of course, that wasn't the reason the A+ers were giving for demanding its removal, nor the reason Ophelia stated for removing it.

Those are good reasons, the same reasoning for which I used the word porn in fact. The image would be legally indistinguishable from the same which is why I so labeled it. Though I've stopped calling it that since.

I opposed it for depicting a rape in progress with no effort spared at all to shield the victims. You know like blurring their faces, or preferably not posting it at all. Ophelia's comment was that she needed a graphic image to show some very thick people what the words "Virginity testing" meant.

/edit, Stout really? He did not address a single argument that those of us opposed to the image put forth. All he did was quote GAS and then beat straw.

 

[Rrose Selavy]

Those are good reasons, the same reasoning for which I used the word porn in fact. The image would be legally indistinguishable from the same which is why I so labeled it. Though I've stopped calling it that since.

Legally indistinguishable? Really? It may well have been a graphic image, It may well have been a depiction of a sexual assault (even with the person's apparent compliance (with pressure) at the time, it may well have been the recording of an offensive or morally reprehensible, even criminal act, without the consent of all the subjects.

That does not necessarily make it "porn" , it was not produced nor by any known accounts used for sexual arousal or gratification or is the record of such an act, unless you would care to define what you mean by any legal definition.

 

[luchog]

I am well acquainted with it.

That doesn't stop feminism from treating women as if they are fragile and delicate damsels that have to have their hands held through life.

Nice to see I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Not many people seem to notice or acknowledge the subtle misogyny inherent in the radical feminist fringe. Their rhetoric paints women as weak and powerless, unable to stand up against the abuses committed by The Patriarchy(tm).

 

[Wildy]

FtBlogger Avicenna laces up the steel toed boots and lands one right in SJ's crotch.

That was a good article. Too bad the chances of SJW's learning from it are slim to none.

 

[Dissolution]

Those are good reasons, the same reasoning for which I used the word porn in fact. The image would be legally indistinguishable from the same which is why I so labeled it. Though I've stopped calling it that since.

So is all nudity porn, then or all medical examinations?
These ones were clearly unnecessary and dubious in nature, but I can't see how they were porn.

 

[Empress]

Nice to see I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Not many people seem to notice or acknowledge the subtle misogyny inherent in the radical feminist fringe. Their rhetoric paints women as weak and powerless, unable to stand up against the abuses committed by The Patriarchy(tm).

The rampant misandry combined with the subtle misogyny is why I long ago left off calling myself a feminist and started exclusively using the term humanist.

I am a woman. I am strong, dynamic, and intelligent. I make my own choices and willingly suffer the consequences of my actions. I do not hate men, nor do I wish to rule over them or anyone else. I hope and work for equality of all humans, regardless of sex, race, or any other factor. I will not kneel and grovel before a crowd of women who seek to oppress me any more than I would before a crowd of men.

I do not need to be protected because I lack a Y chromosome. I need to be protected because I am human and I have weaknesses, and sometimes I need to hold someone's hand to get through life. I also willingly hold the hand of others when they feel weak and need protection, simply because they are also human.

I will not apologize for having been a victim in the past, but I do not choose to be a victim in the future. As such, I will place myself and every other person, in the position of greatest strength, freedom, and autonomy, and will always consider it my human duty to oppose all forms of oppression.

The Plussers are not humanists. I will not align myself with them.

[/soapbox]

 

[Stout]

/edit, Stout really? He did not address a single argument that those of us opposed to the image put forth. All he did was quote GAS and then beat straw.

Yes, because he's addressing the issue on his terms, not Aplusses. What he's basically saying is that "activists" need to grow a spine, that if they're going to make something all about how offended they were then maybe they should find another hobby.

A+ shot the messenger by making it all about Ophelia Benson hosting the image. There was only one attempt to actually discuss virginity testing on A+ and the poor chemgeek got triggered ( conveniently ) and reacted in typical A+ mod fashion by issuing a ban and breaking out the hidden text box.

QMartindale at least tried to find out more information about the issue ( he missed a link, this is not Nigeria ) and all that did was trigger an response from Grimalkin that can only be described as completely clueless.

Is A+ interested in condemning the action of virginity testing for being the stupid, invasive, disgusting "cultural tradition' that it is or are they worried about being labelled racists for doing so ?

Speaking of stupid cultural traditions. I watched this documentary a few days ago and there's a coming of age segment in there, a cultural tradition that'll make your jaw hit the floor ? Would A+ address it or would they go on a rant against the Discovery Channel for not leaving it on the cutting room floor ?

The Man who Walked the Amazon IMDB link

 

[Kochanski]

The rampant misandry combined with the subtle misogyny is why I long ago left off calling myself a feminist and started exclusively using the term humanist.

I am a woman. I am strong, dynamic, and intelligent. I make my own choices and willingly suffer the consequences of my actions. I do not hate men, nor do I wish to rule over them or anyone else. I hope and work for equality of all humans, regardless of sex, race, or any other factor. I will not kneel and grovel before a crowd of women who seek to oppress me any more than I would before a crowd of men.

I do not need to be protected because I lack a Y chromosome. I need to be protected because I am human and I have weaknesses, and sometimes I need to hold someone's hand to get through life. I also willingly hold the hand of others when they feel weak and need protection, simply because they are also human.

I will not apologize for having been a victim in the past, but I do not choose to be a victim in the future. As such, I will place myself and every other person, in the position of greatest strength, freedom, and autonomy, and will always consider it my human duty to oppose all forms of oppression.

The Plussers are not humanists. I will not align myself with them.

[/soapbox]

I am with you 100% Empress. Me too.

The person who wants to call me weak and in need of protection, needs to do it to my face, please, I could use the laugh and if I am in a fun mood I might even hip check them into the nearest wall

 

[Navigator]

The rampant misandry combined with the subtle misogyny is why I long ago left off calling myself a feminist and started exclusively using the term humanist.

I am a woman. I am strong, dynamic, and intelligent. I make my own choices and willingly suffer the consequences of my actions. I do not hate men, nor do I wish to rule over them or anyone else. I hope and work for equality of all humans, regardless of sex, race, or any other factor. I will not kneel and grovel before a crowd of women who seek to oppress me any more than I would before a crowd of men.

I do not need to be protected because I lack a Y chromosome. I need to be protected because I am human and I have weaknesses, and sometimes I need to hold someone's hand to get through life. I also willingly hold the hand of others when they feel weak and need protection, simply because they are also human.

I will not apologize for having been a victim in the past, but I do not choose to be a victim in the future. As such, I will place myself and every other person, in the position of greatest strength, freedom, and autonomy, and will always consider it my human duty to oppose all forms of oppression.

The Plussers are not humanists. I will not align myself with them.

[/soapbox]

^this

 

[Humes fork]

Oh he's back on his atheists not dictionary atheists nonsense now is he? Where he insists that atheism isn't about your position on the existence of deities, instead it's about... well about being an American liberal.

I don't think he ever left it. As you say, atheism a la PZ Myers is not a philosophical position about gods, but a political stance.

Well there are already political groups devoted to the causes favored by Myers. Why the need to drag atheism into it?

 

[Wudang]

Nice to see I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Not many people seem to notice or acknowledge the subtle misogyny inherent in the radical feminist fringe. Their rhetoric paints women as weak and powerless, unable to stand up against the abuses committed by The Patriarchy(tm).

Slightly on this topic, many years ago myself and a couple of fellow students published a one-off parody magazine. I was quite proud of the article supposedly by the chairman of the university communist party that "feminism was an important issue. And far too important to be left to a bunch of women."

 

[squealpiggy]

The rampant misandry combined with the subtle misogyny is why I long ago left off calling myself a feminist and started exclusively using the term humanist.

I am a woman. I am strong, dynamic, and intelligent. I make my own choices and willingly suffer the consequences of my actions. I do not hate men, nor do I wish to rule over them or anyone else. I hope and work for equality of all humans, regardless of sex, race, or any other factor. I will not kneel and grovel before a crowd of women who seek to oppress me any more than I would before a crowd of men.

I do not need to be protected because I lack a Y chromosome. I need to be protected because I am human and I have weaknesses, and sometimes I need to hold someone's hand to get through life. I also willingly hold the hand of others when they feel weak and need protection, simply because they are also human.

I will not apologize for having been a victim in the past, but I do not choose to be a victim in the future. As such, I will place myself and every other person, in the position of greatest strength, freedom, and autonomy, and will always consider it my human duty to oppose all forms of oppression.

The Plussers are not humanists. I will not align myself with them.

[/soapbox]

Nommed. By which I mean nominated, not eaten cutely.

 

[Navigator]

Well there are already political groups devoted to the causes favored by Myers. Why the need to drag atheism into it?

Why the need for...


"we support women’s rights,
we protest racism,
we fight homophobia and transphobia,"

?

Atheism is a fairly clear position. It is not a political/PC movement

 

[jhunter1163]

The rampant misandry combined with the subtle misogyny is why I long ago left off calling myself a feminist and started exclusively using the term humanist.

I am a woman. I am strong, dynamic, and intelligent. I make my own choices and willingly suffer the consequences of my actions. I do not hate men, nor do I wish to rule over them or anyone else. I hope and work for equality of all humans, regardless of sex, race, or any other factor. I will not kneel and grovel before a crowd of women who seek to oppress me any more than I would before a crowd of men.

I do not need to be protected because I lack a Y chromosome. I need to be protected because I am human and I have weaknesses, and sometimes I need to hold someone's hand to get through life. I also willingly hold the hand of others when they feel weak and need protection, simply because they are also human.

I will not apologize for having been a victim in the past, but I do not choose to be a victim in the future. As such, I will place myself and every other person, in the position of greatest strength, freedom, and autonomy, and will always consider it my human duty to oppose all forms of oppression.

The Plussers are not humanists. I will not align myself with them.

[/soapbox]

Bravo. Nominated.

ETA: Late to the party as usual. Oh well, I'll second the nomination then.

 

[WillyWonka]

Bravo. Nominated.

ETA: Late to the party as usual. Oh well, I'll second the nomination then.

Same here. A great post from Empress.

I always liked strong women. My wife was. My mother is. This is why I find all the dramas in the last few months truly bizarre.

 

[Edx]

Nice to see I'm not the only one who has noticed this. Not many people seem to notice or acknowledge the subtle misogyny inherent in the radical feminist fringe. Their rhetoric paints women as weak and powerless, unable to stand up against the abuses committed by The Patriarchy(tm).

There's a lot of people who have noticed, just not very popular people

Also +1 to Empress. Feminists would call you a gender traitor, or just totally ignore you and pretend they speak for you and that all your views are actually male views, or all your views are basically Stockholm Syndrome caused by your male oppressor overlords. As AronRa said in his recent video, if you're not a feminist, you're a sexist!! How sad that someone like Aron had to compromise his intellectual integrity after talking about how important it was to be honest and rational for all these years.

 

[Empress]

Thank you for the kind words, everyone.

 

[ApostateltsopA]

Legally indistinguishable? Really? It may well have been a graphic image, It may well have been a depiction of a sexual assault (even with the person's apparent compliance (with pressure) at the time, it may well have been the recording of an offensive or morally reprehensible, even criminal act, without the consent of all the subjects.

That does not necessarily make it "porn" , it was not produced nor by any known accounts used for sexual arousal or gratification or is the record of such an act, unless you would care to define what you mean by any legal definition.

Very quickly, change the comment below it and leave the image exactly as it is. I am not saying the intent of this image was pornographic, but that for FB to allow this picture would leave them open to having to allow a lot of other really bad things, including the actual porn, with intent, that this resembles. I don't find it erotic, but I don't need to find children erotic to recognize pedophilia. Images such as this should be treated a damn sight more carefully than this one has been.

So is all nudity porn, then or all medical examinations?
These ones were clearly unnecessary and dubious in nature, but I can't see how they were porn.

See above, also, this is not a medical examination. There is no health benefit to this practice it is a method of subjugating and dehumanizing women. That is a very disgusting equivocation you just made.

Yes, because he's addressing the issue on his terms, not Aplusses. What he's basically saying is that "activists" need to grow a spine, that if they're going to make something all about how offended they were then maybe they should find another hobby.....

Condemnation for this practice has been pretty damn universal at A+. We have, however, gone the additional step of saying how we fight this crap is also important. Exploitative images with identifying information are bad. Avincina didn't address that point, he decided we were mad about the breasts. He did mention that people should harden up, but also mentioned that he can't get over fireworks and has to lie and conceal his reaction. TW and opposition to FGM, and other atrocities are not mutually exclusive and TW acknowledge the harm of those with PTSD and related issues.

No, he didn't' fisk us at all. He barely made relevant comments. You can read in depth there in the comments of you like, I think Submor hit the nail quite firmly on the head with the htfu bit.

I haven't seen that documentary, there is nothing in the comments on your link to suggest what the cultural tradition you are referring to is. It does look like the guy inflicted a lot of self harm, but all I have to go on is the very limited info in the link. Can you be more specific?

@Empress, that looks like feminism to me. I like humanism. Then again I don't see rampant misandry or misogyny at A+, perhaps you could point it out, or not. From your rant we would appear to be working for the same causes whatever you choose to call it.

(As always my free time evaporates quick. If I miss anything any of you would like me to address please send a PM. I can even respond to your PM here if you would like.)

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Condemnation for this practice has been pretty damn universal at A+. We have, however, gone the additional step of saying how we fight this crap is also important.

Out of curiosity, can you name how anybody at A+ has fought "this crap"?

 

[Edx]

@Empress, that looks like feminism to me.

Only by feminisms and feminists own definition, not in practise. Just because Kent Hovind claims to be a scientist and love science doesn't mean anything unless he can demonstrate his understanding of the word is the same as ours.

So feminists can claim they are about equality till the cows come home, and guys like AronRa can keep clutching to dictionaries and say... see! It says feminism is equality! These feminists over here also say they are about equality! Therefore thats what it means, and therefore if you're not a feminist you're a sexist!... all he likes, but that doesn't make it any different, and its just as circular and fallacious. There's also the other aspect, one that is related, as to what possible justification there could be for using a gendered word to be synonymous to egalitarianism in the first place.

The reality is that the word "equality" as used by feminists is used much like that of a child might say they want to have "equal rights" to that of adults. What the child means by "equal" here is a desire get all the things real or imagined that they perceive the adults as having the right and privilege to do that they don't. The reality of having actual "equal rights" of adults would mean losing the rights and special treatment and protection and provision afforded only to children that adults don't have. The child doesn't see this, they only want to be able to eat as many sweets and chips as they want, to stay up as late as they like, and watch any TV they feel like, etc. The child here sees rights like a hierarchy, with adults on top and them wanting to be brought up to that level. Feminists see things in a similar way, with men on the top of the ladder with 100% of the rights and privileges and them being X% down the ladder (depending on how fundamentalist a feminist you are). They don't recognise that the social dynamic doesn't actually work this way. And additionally they also don't realise what it would really be like if women were treated "equal" to how men are treated, this would be a world they would consider horrific. Just consider how they treat sexual harassment and sex crimes, one rule for women, another for men.

I don't see rampant misandry or misogyny at A+, perhaps you could point it out, or not. From your rant we would appear to be working for the same causes whatever you choose to call it.

Well there's something you could write a book about! I brought up a few issues here that show feminism and the FTB Atheism+ crowd aren't good for women either.