Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[christianahannah]

This is no "Satanism conference". It is a conference organized by the magazine "Delitti & Misteri", dedicated to a number about "Le Bestie di Satana" - a series of Satanic murders that actually took place in Italy.
I suppose the number also extends the topic to Satanism and other cases in a more wide sense.

It is interesting: you should listen to what Mignini actually says.
He says, among other things, that he never had experience of anly link to satanism-related things in any case over his career, except once, in one minor case (which is not the Narducci- MoF case and it is not the Meredith case).

I didn't phrase it as a Satanist conference and didn't think it was such. And yes, I went forward and listened (well, as comprehensively as I am able) to Mignini in whole (and not in part) and I think he is not obsessed with Satanism nor applies it to all things.

I am curious as to whether this Francesco Bruno was also the same Bruno who was a consultant at one time for Raffaele?

 

[Diocletus]

I think this Satanism thing is some kind of demographic thing in Italy. The northerners think the southerners are freeloading scum, and the southerners call the ones north of the Po "Satanists." Seems fair to me.

 

[Bill Williams]

I didn't phrase it as a Satanist conference and didn't think it was such. And yes, I went forward and listened (well, as comprehensively as I am able) to Mignini in whole (and not in part) and I think he is not obsessed with Satanism nor applies it to all things.
I am curious as to whether this Francesco Bruno was also the same Bruno who was a consultant at one time for Raffaele?

The question is, though, did he apply it to the Kercher murder prosecution?

Once again, the issue is: why now? Why are we dealing with this in Oct 2013, when it very well could have been debunked in 2008?

It certainly does not help Mignini to be writing letters in opposition to Spezi in Sept 2013, while he's at the same time attending conferences like this - pulled up from the audience...... with Knox's picture on the powerpoint behind him. How do you account for Knox's picture at the conference?

They seem to be making mention of a 2005 case which the panel says DOES involve Satanism, and no one smiles when they're talking about it. Then again, my Italian is almost non-existent, so Machiavelli will have to help us out with this....

.... unless he's too embarrassed to comment. "Embarrassment" would be progress.

 

[Dan O.]

I find it highly unlikely that none of the luminol prints showed positive for blood or Meredith's DNA. I believe that the print AC indicated as Luminol footprint 3 is actually recorded as a Luminol shoe print because in fact the toes of this bare footprint are overlapped by the concentric circles of Rudy's bloody shoe photographed at marker #2 in the hall.


Here I show the two side by side in the same scale and orientation. Match the grout lines between the tiles to see how they overlay.

[imgw=640]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=597&pictureid=8086[/imgw]

 

[Bill Williams]

One would think that with Knox's picture on a powerpoint at an anti-Satanists conference.....

..... with Mignini in the audience.....

..... with Mignini pulled up from the audience at minute 37 to address the gathered.....

..... that the first thing Mignini would say would be something like, "Look, I took a lot of undeserved heat about the purely specious claim I'd prosecuted Amanda Knox on the basis of a Satanic Rite. I want to say from the start, that the picture on your powerpoint is misleading..... in no way, shape, or form was the prosecution of Amanda Knox the result of my belief that Kercher had been murdered as part of a Satanic Rite. So - for the sake of accuracy, and for the sake that some FOA-nutcases in North America who might get a hold of this, could you at least take down Knox's picture...."

I think this is a fair Google-translation of Mignini's opening remarks.

What!? You mean he never issued this disclaimer? At an anti-Satanic Rite Conference? With Amanda Knox's picture on the power point?

That's confirmation bias against Mignini!

 

[LondonJohn]

The question is, though, did he apply it to the Kercher murder prosecution?

Once again, the issue is: why now? Why are we dealing with this in Oct 2013, when it very well could have been debunked in 2008?

It certainly does not help Mignini to be writing letters in opposition to Spezi in Sept 2013, while he's at the same time attending conferences like this - pulled up from the audience...... with Knox's picture on the powerpoint behind him. How do you account for Knox's picture at the conference?

They seem to be making mention of a 2005 case which the panel says DOES involve Satanism, and no one smiles when they're talking about it. Then again, my Italian is almost non-existent, so Machiavelli will have to help us out with this....

.... unless he's too embarrassed to comment. "Embarrassment" would be progress.

Mignini's recent "outrage" at being linked to beliefs in Satanism, the occult and pagan rituals might put some people in mind of the famous quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet, act III, scene II:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[Mary_H]

So.... Mignini speaks at a Satanism conference, coming up from the floor at minute 37. At this Satanism conference he speaks of Knox and Sollecito as "free cutthroats."

What were we arguing about?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiVG-w8l4F4

Apparently this is from Sept 2013.

Jeeze, now I know why the judges fell asleep at the trial. Mignini is not exactly a dynamic speaker, is he?

And who is the guy sitting behind him -- the one with the great stage presence. Could he have acted any more disinterested?

 

[LondonJohn]

I didn't phrase it as a Satanist conference and didn't think it was such. And yes, I went forward and listened (well, as comprehensively as I am able) to Mignini in whole (and not in part) and I think he is not obsessed with Satanism nor applies it to all things.

I am curious as to whether this Francesco Bruno was also the same Bruno who was a consultant at one time for Raffaele?

Wasn't he a British boxer who once held a version of the World Heavyweight Title?

 

[Antony]

This has been repeated numerous times here and at other forums. I have never found any source for this that is reliable. Do you an account that is reliable on this subject?

'Fraid not. I'm just going by the various descriptions of Guede as a "girl-botherer" who had problems with relationships.

It was a sign of depravity that it took you until your thirties?

Uh ... no. It was my expressing admiration for Amanda's prowess.

 

[Bill Williams]

Please pass this around. It is of Mr. Mignini being called up from the audience to address Satanism, at a presumed anti-Satanism conference. Whereas he does not make direct reference in his remarks about the Kercher case and Satanism, he also did not take the opportunity to dispel rumours that he'd once offered this as a motive for the crime.

 

[acbytesla]

It really is interesting how often we find that the police and prosecution and the ARE WRONG. Not just in this case in Italy, but in cases all over the world. Today's headlines in the US show David Camm being acquitted after being found guilty twice. They show that Grand Jury voted to indict Jon Benet Ramsey's parents. We see that chemists faked positive results to drug tests that incarcerated hundreds of people.

There countless people that are sent to jail on scant evidence and there are police and prosecutors that take shortcuts and are overzealous to the point of being dishonest. We see that the public often are as overzealous as government officials in their desire for vengeance.

 

[Diocletus]

Mignini's recent "outrage" at being linked to beliefs in Satanism, the occult and pagan rituals might put some people in mind of the famous quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet, act III, scene II:

Agreed. At least we now know why he wrote his weasely letter.

 

[Diocletus]

There countless people that are sent to jail on scant evidence and there are police and prosecutors that take shortcuts and are overzealous to the point of being dishonest.

Why?

 

[xinonix]

Mignini didn't go after AK + RS because there was any evidence that they murdered Meredith he was on the trail of the satanic cult.
While Rudy is the guy who did the killing, Rudy should have been in jail that night, but somebody made a phone call to the jail and he was let go. If he could find out who made that call he might be able to find another member of the cult.

 

[acbytesla]

Why?

I'm not sure. I think it is because of arrogance, and that insecurity that we all have sometimes to justify our work. Judges, police and prosecutors and others in the justice system get caught up in "catching" the bad guy. They forget that really isn't their job. It is to seek the facts and present that.

But prosecutors point to their won loss record as validation. When in truth, that should be irrelevant.

Your theory is likely to be as good as mine.

 

[Bill Williams]

It really is interesting how often we find that the police and prosecution and the ARE WRONG. Not just in this case in Italy, but in cases all over the world. Today's headlines in the US show David Camm being acquitted after being found guilty twice. They show that Grand Jury voted to indict Jon Benet Ramsey's parents. We see that chemists faked positive results to drug tests that incarcerated hundreds of people.

There countless people that are sent to jail on scant evidence and there are police and prosecutors that take shortcuts and are overzealous to the point of being dishonest. We see that the public often are as overzealous as government officials in their desire for vengeance.

And we have Mignini saying this was a premeditated, ritualistic crime.... and that puts him at odds with Machiavelli who reluctantly agreed with Massei upthread that as far as A and R are concerned, it was unpremeditated....

“The murder was premeditated, and was in addition a ‘rite’ celebrated on the occasion of the night of Hallowe’en. A sexual and, sacrificial rite … In the intention of the organisers, the rite should have occurred 24 hours earlier” – on Hallowe’en itself – “but on account of a dinner at the house of horrors, organised by Meredith and, Amanda’s Italian flatmates, it was postponed, for one day. The presumed assassins contented themselves with the evening of 1 November to perform their do-it-yourself rite, when, for some hours it would again be the night of All Saints.”

 

[Diocletus]

And we have Mignini saying this was a premeditated, ritualistic crime.... and that puts him at odds with Machiavelli who reluctantly agreed with Massei upthread that as far as A and R are concerned, it was unpremeditated....

Mignini really, really, really wanted it to be a satanic murder. It's just that no one was buying his crap. So he turned it into a Halloween-ritual-sacrificial-initiation-rite murder party orgy. Satan wasn't invited, though.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I find it highly unlikely that none of the luminol prints showed positive for blood or Meredith's DNA. I believe that the print AC indicated as Luminol footprint 3 is actually recorded as a Luminol shoe print because in fact the toes of this bare footprint are overlapped by the concentric circles of Rudy's bloody shoe photographed at marker #2 in the hall.


Here I show the two side by side in the same scale and orientation. Match the grout lines between the tiles to see how they overlay.

[imgw=640]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=597&pictureid=8086[/imgw]

Good catch. Interestingly that track was the only one that tested positive for Meredith's DNA of all the luminol prints.

 

[Diocletus]

Good catch. Interestingly that track was the only one that tested positive for Meredith's DNA of all the luminol prints.

It appears that there is a drip mark next to what is maybe the edge of the sole. I find that interesting. Perhaps this suggests drippage coming from a pant leg, which would be consistent with the drips outside on the steps, some of which were TMB-positive, yet supposedly showed no DNA.

 

[acbytesla]

And we have Mignini saying this was a premeditated, ritualistic crime.... and that puts him at odds with Machiavelli who reluctantly agreed with Massei upthread that as far as A and R are concerned, it was unpremeditated....

From my perspective Bill, the only logical way they could have been involved was some sort of premeditation. But that really is absurd too. There is no motive for premeditation and what's more there is no proof of it.

If that cooking knife was involved...which is laughable. There would be other evidence, particularly inside Amanda's purse. There would be blood there or cuts made by the knife as it jostled around inside her purse. There would be cuts on Amanda's and Raffaele's hands, but the only one with cuts on the hands was Rudy.