Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Machiavelli]

All judges found Mignini was right? Cough Cough. Hellmann and Zanetti did not... oh, I forgot, the Masons paid them off... apologies. Again, that's an assertion of yours with no proof.

The Supreme Court of Cassation brushed Hellmann and Zanetti away. They don't exist anymore as legitimate judges. Their judgement was illegitimate (except for calunnia).

Massei found Mignini right?

Yes.

Massei found no reason why mulitple attackers was mandatory.
Massei found no strained relations between Meredith and Amanda, despite Mignini calling all the friends to the stand. Meredith's boyfriend call the mutual relations normal.
There was no motive, for Massei, for Amanda and Raffaele to have done this, hence Massei's invention about how the knife got to the cottage. Massei called the motive solely Rudy's about which the two students made a momentary "choice for evil".
Massei did not find for "mixed blood" at the cottage.
Massei did not find any psychopathology in the two.
And so on, and so on.....

All your claims are, as said many many times, pointless. They are false.

Anyway, in my post I was speaking about the particular point where they found Mignini was right about the claim of "obvious" "civil rights" violations which Mary H was talking about.

Mignini was right and the defence claims were wrong, this is what all judges found. Matteini rejected the defence requests to annull the previous order of arrest and found they were unfounded. Ricciarelli again rejected the defence claims and found Mignini was right. The Soureme Court rejected the defence requests in their submission under art. 507, and declared that the suspectts shall remain in prison, that the interogation was valid and admissible against others, that the hand written note was usable, that the spontaneous statement was not usable, but only in the charge of murder, and no violation by the prosecution was ever found.
Massei & Cristiani rejected again the defence requests to annull the order of custody; then rejected also the defence request to annull Stefanoni's testimony and findings (and rejected any claim of violation).
Even Hellmann & Zanetti rejected again the request of annullment of Stefanoni's testimony on the same procedure grounds; then they implicilty rejected also any possible claim of coercion given that they convicted Knox for calunnia.

 

[Bill Williams]

All your claims are, as said many many times, pointless. They are false.

No they aren't.

 

[billyryan]

I don't expect you to believe me. You already believe to your made-up scenarios, and you intend to be overtly irrational about your beliefs.

Btw I'm actually the person who showed more things on this forum and brought most the attention to reality.

Whenever I call you to look close at some detail of reality, what you are able to write is "lol".

Then you write "go Spezi". What do you know about Spezi, except what he writes about himself? Did you research whether he was caught committing hideous crimes?

I have a different view about reality of this case from people on almost every element. There is a huge number of points of reality where I say the truth and you claim or belive a falsehood, I am certainly not going to demonstrate or discuss each one of these point. Every rational person can understand that it would be just impossible to open a challenge on a hundred discussion topics with a crowd of believers. Everyone understands it except someone. But just, think why should I? Just look at what you are talking about, and look at it from my point of view.
From my point of view, you are a group of people who make a huge number of assertions which are either wacky, unfounded, openly contradicted by reality and false. And none of you actually demonstrates or proves any of these. And you that I do not attempt to prove the claims I make? But do you attempt to prove yours?
Your criticism makes no sense. Given the divide, it is simply obvious that, when you take any point of discussion, you will have to assume that there will still be another hundred points that I will not be discussed.
RoseMontague, you mostly write one-line posts, and half are "lol"; look at yourself.

Does Mignini ever think there is some prosecutor dreaming about the international fame he would get if he arrested Mignini the same way the flying thug squad arrested Patrick Lumumba,when you are sitting across a table from Mignini and Andrea do ye ever comtemplate which of his crimes will get him arrested

 

[acbytesla]

I don't expect you to believe me. You already believe to your made-up scenarios, and you intend to be overtly irrational about your beliefs.
Btw I'm actually the person who showed more things on this forum and brought most the attention to reality.

Whenever I call you to look close at some detail of reality, what you are able to write is "lol".

Then you write "go Spezi". What do you know about Spezi, except what he writes about himself? Did you research whether he was caught committing hideous crimes?

I have a different view about reality of this case from people on almost every element. There is a huge number of points of reality where I say the truth and you claim or belive a falsehood, I am certainly not going to demonstrate or discuss each one of these point. Every rational person can understand that it would be just impossible to open a challenge on a hundred discussion topics with a crowd of believers. Everyone understands it except someone. But just, think why should I? Just look at what you are talking about, and look at it from my point of view.
From my point of view, you are a group of people who make a huge number of assertions which are either wacky, unfounded, openly contradicted by reality and false. And none of you actually demonstrates or proves any of these. And you that I do not attempt to prove the claims I make? But do you attempt to prove yours?
Your criticism makes no sense. Given the divide, it is simply obvious that, when you take any point of discussion, you will have to assume that there will still be another hundred points that I will not be discussed.
RoseMontague, you mostly write one-line posts, and half are "lol"; look at yourself.

I do like the way you definitively make claims that have no proof or evidence behind them and how everyone is making up scenarios. Your dose of reality is really a fantasy, just like the tennis shoes that were first attributed to Raffaele, and that Patrick Lumumba was involved, and Amanda was a prostitute and how the Postal police arrived before Raffaele called the police and how luminol prints are blood despite the fact the negative TMB test and the absence of any confirmatory tests. Then of course is your totally unproven claim that Amanda's acquittal is a Masonic conspiracy and a bribe to Hellmann.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
Once again, for the seventh time.... do you assert that John Kercher lied about saying that Mignini asserted a Satanic Rite, as you said Barbie Nadeau lied in asserting the same?

I'm curious to see this quote from John Kercher.

Whatever Kercher said I dont hink he lied: I think he might have read Nadeau or other journalists and believed them. He does not understand nor read Italian, and was not even in Italy for most of the hearing. I just don't expect him to have any direct knowledge what Mignini said.

Now, YOU prove your claim.

You say it is a "fact" that all Italian sources reported this.

We are waiting for you backing your claim.

Report the Italian sources you mention, or report the quote from trial documentation.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Amanda's phone records

Re: the six day gap Chris, in one of the studies you mention over at IIP - Poy & Van Oorschot - DNA was found on a magnifying lamp which came from a sample examined three months earlier. So six days doesn't seem like it would be enough to rule out contamination, at least if the DNA were transferred to something which isn't regularly cleaned or cleaned properly.

Thank you. I have been meaning to reread that paper for some time. When I do, I will have to update my blog. The notion that a six-day gap ensures lack of contamination by itself is untenable. The supreme court heard what it wanted to hear and disregarded the rest, to borrow from Paul Simon.

On another subject (that of Amanda's calls to Meredith). I think a long time ago you wrote about the lengths of these calls. Was there one to Meredith that was longer than the others? So far I have not found it.

 

[Bill Williams]

Does Mignini ever think there is some prosecutor dreaming about the international fame he would get if he arrested Mignini the same way the flying thug squad arrested Patrick Lumumba,when you are sitting across a table from Mignini and Andrea do ye ever comtemplate which of his crimes will get him arrested

Yikes.... what if Machiavelli and I are having dinner and the wine has just been opened when the cops come rushing in, like they did with Lumumba?

So far, Machiavelli has thrown Nadeau under a bus to try to stave off this scenario.... the question which follows this - will Machiavelli similarly claim that John Kercher is lying? Eighth time I've asked.

 

[yimyammer]

Have you tried holding a rock that weight, though? I'm genuinely curious because for me, it would have been impossible to throw it upwards that far, and feeling how heavy it was changed my mind about how it was thrown. But as I said, I'm not sure how much my pathetic upper body strength factors into that - maybe it really would be quite easy for someone stronger, like your (I assume) big strong self.

ETA: Yes, I think Filomena said she pulled the inner shutters towards the window, but didn't fasten them.

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm curious to see this quote from John Kercher.

Whatever Kercher said I dont hink he lied: I think he might have read Nadeau or other journalists and believed them. He does not understand nor read Italian, and was not even in Italy for most of the hearing. I just don't expect him to have any direct knowledge what Mignini said.

Now, YOU prove your claim.

You say it is a "fact" that all Italian sources reported this.

We are waiting for you backing your claim.

Report the Italian sources you mention, or report the quote from trial documentation.

Thank you. I actually do think you think Kercher lied. By the way, you have not proved anything. It's good to know, though, that you think that the forensic part of John Kercher's book is inaccurate and relies on unreliable sources... which is mainly Mr. Maresca.

And who is the "we" in your statement? You have the trial documentation,...... so have at it. It's just strange to have someone who doesn't believe in backing up his own statements demand that others do.... I know why Italians did not.... it's called defamation lawsuits which Mignini throws around with impugnity.

 

[Machiavelli]

LOL. Go Spezi.

Did you research whether he was caught committing hideous crimes?
Or not?

 

[RoseMontague]

I can't fathom how three people could have committed this crime and not left multiple shoe (or foot) prints (all different) in that bloody room and if they tried to clean them up, I would expect to see smeared blood everywhere but from what I recall, none of the crime scene photos I've seen show anything of the sort.

It's been a while since I've seen any photos, am I mistaken?

No. You are correct.

 

[Machiavelli]

And who is the "we" in your statement?

me and Grinder.

 

[RoseMontague]

Did you research whether he was caught committing hideous crimes?
Or not?

I did my research. I believe Spezi. Mignini is a liar.

Go Spezi.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I can't fathom how three people could have committed this crime and not left multiple shoe (or foot) prints (all different) in that bloody room and if they tried to clean them up, I would expect to see smeared blood everywhere but from what I recall, none of the crime scene photos I've seen show anything of the sort.

It's been a while since I've seen any photos, am I mistaken?

A lot of details would be different, how exactly depends on the nature of the imaginary crime being hypothesized, which could be anything.

Only one crime really happened. If it involved multiple perpetrators, they very convincingly simulated the crime scene and the injuries that would be produced by a single attacker with a knife in his right hand.

 

[RoseMontague]

[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img443/9303/filoquote.jpg[/qimg]

Those are the outer shutters, not the inner. Hellmann has the quote on the inner shutters, IIRC.

 

[Machiavelli]

We have gone over this at length. The autopsy report shows minor bruising in the extremities, fingertip bruises on the right side of the jaw from a left hand covering the victim's face, puncture wounds on the right side of the neck, and a slash wound on the left side of the neck made by plunging a small knife to the hilt and then pulling, up and from left to right. All of this is perfectly explained by a victim struggling against an attacker who was holding her from behind with a knife in his right hand. No other explanation makes sense, so I can fully understand why you don't want to get into the details. (...)

Details of the autopsy are very different, my friend. The crime does not consist in a stabbing.
There is a lot to talk about.

The decision that "something" has no relevance to the crime and will have to remain "random" (actually: unexplained) it's obviously arbitrary.

 

[Machiavelli]

I did my research. I believe Spezi. (...)

I didn't ask you if you believe Spezi (even if he says Umbria is the only Italian region that doesn't border the sea, so cutting off four regions with 15 millions inhabitants).
Because Spezi never speaks about the topics for which he is currently indicted.

He was caught by the Florentine police together with a mobster called Ruocco and a corrupt ex-police officer called Zaccaria, while he was attempting to place false evidence against an innocent parson, called Vinci.

Did you research whether he has ties with Neapolitan mafia members or other criminals, or whehter he was actually caught by the Florentine police doing these things?

 

[Bill Williams]

Details of the autopsy are very different, my friend. The crime does not consist in a stabbing.
There is a lot to talk about.
The decision that "something" has no relevance to the crime and will have to remain "random" (actually: unexplained) it's obviously arbitrary.

And yet you do not talk about it. You simply assert things. Which is, afterall, why you say you're here....

 

[billyryan]

I did my research. I believe Spezi. Mignini is a liar.

Go Spezi.

The last chapter on Mignini the liar's career will be about the men who finally brought him down,and Spezi will be one of them

 

[RoseMontague]

Yikes.... what if Machiavelli and I are having dinner and the wine has just been opened when the cops come rushing in, like they did with Lumumba?

So far, Machiavelli has thrown Nadeau under a bus to try to stave off this scenario.... the question which follows this - will Machiavelli similarly claim that John Kercher is lying? Eighth time I've asked.

From what I can tell some information he gets comes from TJMK, and it seems he relies quite a bit on Maresa. TJMK seems in denial on anything negative about Mignini so my bet is it comes directly from Maresca. Having said that the letter sent to the court from Meredith's sister wanted them to honor the requests for testing and Maresca argued against the Kercher's wishes with the exception of the prosecution requests. Maybe there is a communication problem there.