Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kevin_Lowe]

When you say there isn't much doubt that "Guede abused her sexually after he inflicted the fatal stab wound", Charlie, the sole piece of evidence you're relying on is the pillow - there is nothing else to suggest it.

Aspirated blood droplets on the area covered by the bra show that the bra was removed after the fatal stab wound was inflicted, and I believe I recall that Guede's DNA was found on the bra.

I don't see how we can explain the removal of the bra, by Guede, after the fatal wound was inflicted except by hypothesising that he was sexually assaulting Meredith.

 

[Bill Williams]

No no no, again it's your strain. You know Micheli mentioned a number of "themes"; this is a fact, something that belongs to Micheli's statment. It is also a fact that Micheli stated that the prosecution did not repeat these themes any more. This is a second fact (the fact is that this is stated by Micheli too).
A third fact, is that these themes are present in Mignini's speech, but they are not a description of a ritual murder. Moreover, the word "rito" is actually missing in Mignini's speech (maybe Micheli says "riti" meaning the ritual holidays - Halloween, Celtic day, Day of Seints, Day of the Deads - enlisted in Mighini's paragraph). It is a fact that despite "themes" are mentioned, Mignini's speech does not describe any ritual murder, but describes instead just a drug-fueled party between young students in which a sex-game-gone-awry scenario took place, and these themes (linked to manga comics, possible cultural suggestions, strange individual charachters, Halloween as an "occasion" to have Meredith alone) are merely secondary, contextual elements "attached" to this scenario. They do not turn the murder into a ritual murder, they are only speculation on what "style" the drug-fueled party and sex-hazing might have had, a totally secondary aspect. This is the third fact.

So the point is: these themes are like a "decoration" of the sex-game scenario, they are not a ritual murder scenario. They have nothing to do with it.



Quite the contrary, you are purposely doging it. The core is that there is no ritual murder scenario in Mignini's argument.
This is a matter of fact. There isn't even the word "ritual" or "rite". Nor "sect". There is only a description of a sexual context carried on under the effect of drugs (also mentions a possible motive to get Merediths' money) and speaks about strange personalities that write and read stories about sex-and-violence and collect knifes. So, strange folks that may have strange sexual ideas during drug fueled parties: this is the only scenario in the prosecution's argument.

The "source" I point out - I thought that was clear - is one journalist who reports a definition that includes the word "rito" (anyway in an ironic context etc.) that he did not hear, only claiming he is reporting something another journalist said. But - the most important point - there is NO corroboration of such word in trial documents. Hence, there is NO source. (because the only "source" is indirect and conflicts with the trial papers).

And finally, NO, I do not assign any blame to anyone. I am only sure that the prosecutor did not say this because I have read the transcript of prosecution speech and it is not in the document.
I have not red the speeches of Maresca or Pacelli so I simply cannot "clear" them with certainty (which is totally different from "blaming" them).
But whatever Pacelli or Maresca or others said, one thing is absolutely certain: that NO "ritual murder scenario" was ever put forward, and that all those who repeat there was a ritual motive, or sect-like motive, or a ritual murder scenario, are just disseminating a plain falsehood.

The real question is, Machiavelli - why is THIS the line in the sand for you and Mr. Mignini? I mean it is Oct 2013.

The ISC has returned the working "motive" to be the "sex-game gone wrong". Why do you spend ANY time at all on the line in the sand into which you have to defend at ALL costs, this business of the Satanic Ritual?

Why waste keystrokes on it if it is as you say? This is just an internet site, Machiavelli. I'm really more of a no-one than you give credit. Why would Mignini even give the time of day to this if it is just plain false, and is provably false 5 years ago?

Why defend himself from this in Oct 2013. What's at stake? Mignini's liberty?

 

[katy_did]

Aspirated blood droplets on the area covered by the bra show that the bra was removed after the fatal stab wound was inflicted, and I believe I recall that Guede's DNA was found on the bra.

I don't see how we can explain the removal of the bra, by Guede, after the fatal wound was inflicted except by hypothesising that he was sexually assaulting Meredith.

Yes, as I said earlier, the aspirated blood droplets are the only solid indication we have as to when the stabbing occurred, and they appear to be only on her bra. I think she was stabbed in the process of Guede removing the bra, perhaps because she struggled at that point. I don't disagree that the assault may have continued for a very brief time afterwards.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

When you say there isn't much doubt that "Guede abused her sexually after he inflicted the fatal stab wound", Charlie, the sole piece of evidence you're relying on is the pillow - there is nothing else to suggest it. That was a theory put forward by Massei (that the pillow was placed to 'facilitate' a sexual assault - not quite sure it would make things so much easier, but OK) based on the position it was found in. And he could be right, but I think the context has to be taken into account: firstly, that the pillow was already on the floor by this point - we know that from the shoe prints all over it - most likely having fallen there earlier during the attack; and that Meredith was lying on a bunch of other things which presumably had no sexual purpose, like a pair of tennis shoes IIRC. She wasn't placed carefully on the pillow, but was lying diagonally across one corner of it. And lastly, given that there was no 'rape' in the sense of intercourse, Rudy must have gone to the trouble of positioning Meredith just so that he could manually assault her (and if you're right, placed towels carefully around her for the purpose), all the while keeping an eye out in case any of the other flatmates came home.

And you may be right, but the whole theory is based on one piece of evidence only, evidence which is certainly not unambiguous when seen in context. I think we need to be careful to avoid reading too much into aspects of a chaotic crime scene which may be less meaningful than they appear, and which may even be purely random.

We can draw a couple of definite conclusions from the bloodstains. First, Meredith was in front of the wardrobe when Guede cut her throat, and he dragged her across the floor and positioned her the way he did after cutting her throat. Second, he ripped her bra off after cutting her throat. We can only guess why he did those things, but it goes beyond what is necessary to silence a burglary victim. I would say a sexual motive is by far the most likely explanation.

As to your last paragraph, isn't your argument simply that people do some weird stuff so we shouldn't apply any sort of logic as to what might have happened in this particular crime, based on what we know of an individual's background and the circumstances surrounding the crime itself?

That's essentially my view. I think one should look at the physical evidence at the crime scene to decide what most likely happened. I don't think one should assume Guede wouldn't do something because it seems too weird, given what we know about his background. Other killers, who are no more outwardly disturbed than Guede, do some very weird things.

 

[Machiavelli]

That I do not agree with your arguement does not mean I do not see it.

As I have explained - as have other people - Knox's 'choice' not to sleep is not proof negative of sleep deprivation. You willfully chose to describe sleep deprived behaviour of a few people you knew who were chronically sleep deprived (based on your description, you were describing people with a sleep disorder), and willfully chose to ignore that sleep seeking behaviours of people with sleep deprivation can also be disturbed - whether by stress, medication, noise, or ill health.

You totally ignored the possibility that Knox may have been sleep deprived precisely because she 'chose' not to sleep very well, as had several of Merediths friends.

There was no selective reading, I simply looked at the grounds for your arguement and found they didn't exist.

You simply aren't displaying adequate conditional knowledge of sleep deprivation.

You are indeed selectively reading. Because the ground of my argument is not at all a "choice not to sleep". The ground of my argument is the burden of proof. About the Amanda's "choice", rather than just a choice "to not sleep", it's the pattern of choices about her activities. But the question is not what the observed elements - such as the activities and choices of Knox; but also other extremely important elements like her subsequent activities and her keeping logical control, language articulation, perception of reality and handwriting - prove; because the burden of proof is reversed. And the matter to be proved is one of an extreme kind, not just any "sleep deprivation" issue, so that you just attempt to make some sort of logical use of it for some kind of argument.
This is the ground of the argument, not the "choice not to sleep".

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

It is a fact that despite "themes" are mentioned, Mignini's speech does not describe any ritual murder, but describes instead just a drug-fueled party between young students in which a sex-game-gone-awry scenario took place, and these themes (linked to manga comics, possible cultural suggestions, strange individual charachters, Halloween as an "occasion" to have Meredith alone) are merely secondary, contextual elements "attached" to this scenario. They do not turn the murder into a ritual murder, they are only speculation on what "style" the drug-fueled party and sex-hazing might have had, a totally secondary aspect. This is the third fact.

You realise that you aren't really doing Mignini any favours here?

As hypotheses go, "Satanic ritual murder" is pretty idiotic, we agree, but "manga comics Halloween sex-hazing!" is hardly any better.

"Hazing" is a sort of placeholder word the pro-guilt people use when they can't explain something, like "rape prank". They are words that sound like they refer to actual things that might have happened. However as we've established previously "hazing" is simply not a thing that young couples do to housemates, it's a thing in-group members like sporting teams do to new recruits. Similarly "rape pranks" as far as anyone can tell don't exist, apart from one unfortunate reality TV stunt and one or two incidents where young men stuck things up an acquaintance's bottom when they were passed out drunk.

The idea that comic books are going to turn normal, law-abiding young people into crazed killers is as ridiculous as previous moral panics about rock and roll music or Dungeons and Dragons.

Even when you do your best to spin Mignini as not a lunatic, his theories are still whacked by any reasonable standards.

 

[Machiavelli]

The real question is, Machiavelli - why is THIS the line in the sand for you and Mr. Mignini? I mean it is Oct 2013.

The ISC has returned the working "motive" to be the "sex-game gone wrong". Why do you spend ANY time at all on the line in the sand into which you have to defend at ALL costs, this business of the Satanic Ritual?

Why waste keystrokes on it if it is as you say? This is just an internet site, Machiavelli. I'm really more of a no-one than you give credit. Why would Mignini even give the time of day to this if it is just plain false, and is provably false 5 years ago?

Why defend himself from this in Oct 2013. What's at stake? Mignini's liberty?

I am curious about your reaction.
I want to see if you can admit that the ritual-murder scenario was a plain falsehood. I want to see what happens when you (and innocentisti) focus on and finally acknowledge (or fail to) a detail that contradicts your belief.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Yes, as I said earlier, the aspirated blood droplets are the only solid indication we have as to when the stabbing occurred, and they appear to be only on her bra. I think she was stabbed in the process of Guede removing the bra, perhaps because she struggled at that point. I don't disagree that the assault may have continued for a very brief time afterwards.

I still don't follow the reasoning you are using.

We know Guede removed Meredith's bra after stabbing her.

We know Guede's DNA ended up inside Meredith's vagina somehow.

We don't know whether Guede climaxed or not because the Italian police claim to have been under the delusion that it is impossible to test a semen stain on a pillow without utterly annihilating the entire pillow, although they do understand that you can get DNA off a bra clasp without annihilating the bra clasp. I don't buy that line for a second, personally. But there's weak evidence (a possible semen stain on the pillow under Meredith's hips) that Guede climaxed at the scene.

How do you get to the conclusion that the probable series of events is Guede stabbing Meredith while removing her bra, and then not further assaulting her? I'm not saying we can rule that story out beyond any doubt, but it seems like you're not following the path of least logical resistance.

 

[Bill Williams]

I am curious about your reaction.
I want to see if you can admit that the ritual-murder scenario was a plain falsehood. I want to see what happens when you (and innocentisti) focus on and finally acknowledge (or fail to) a detail that contradicts your belief.

This is best talked about over dinner.... you name the place.

 

[katy_did]

We can draw a couple of definite conclusions from the bloodstains. First, Meredith was in front of the wardrobe when Guede cut her throat, and he dragged her across the floor and positioned her the way he did after cutting her throat. Second, he ripped her bra off after cutting her throat. We can only guess why he did those things, but it goes beyond what is necessary to silence a burglary victim. I would say a sexual motive is by far the most likely explanation.

She was moved onto her back, but that's equally consistent with Guede's claim about trying to staunch the bleeding. I don't think the 'drag marks' in front of the wardrobe are from Meredith's body; they look much more likely to be from the jacket which is in the path of those marks. Guede perhaps used the jacket to mop up blood before going to get the towels.

As I said above, I think he stabbed her in the process of removing the bra; there's no evidence it was removed any length of time afterwards.

That's essentially my view. I think one should look at the physical evidence at the crime scene to decide what most likely happened. I don't think one should assume Guede wouldn't do something because it seems too weird, given what we know about his background. Other killers, who are no more outwardly disturbed than Guede, do some very weird things.

It's not a question of assuming a person wouldn't do something weird; it's considering what the most likely scenario is, taking into account the nature of the crime and the background of the person who committed it. An unlikely scenario needs more evidence to support it than a more likely one.

If those considerations aren't important because people do weird things sometimes, then Amanda and Raffaele's lack of any prior violent history has to be considered meaningless as well. After all, people do very weird and out of character things on occasion.

 

[Machiavelli]

With all this said, Machiavelli, I still offer a dinner at a restaurant of your choosing. I'm serious. You choose the wine, and I trust you implicitly on issues of wine... and because the cost of wine can go through the roof, I reserve the right to limit how much I pick up on the tab for wine.

I won't pay for Mach 2, though. And it can't be in Italy.

Bill, I want to take your invite as sincere. But, 1st, I can't leave Mach2 home, that would be extremely impractical because we are the same person. But above all, I'm not planning to go anywhere like the US nor Canada in the next future. I go to Germany often but... frankly, Italy is not bad.
So I have to decline by now.
However you might underestimate me - as an Italian - if you thouht I won't find the best wine around at very reasonable cost. Believe me my own "winery" in my cellar is full with very good wine, in this moment I have from Piemonte, Veneto and Sicily, when I say good I don't mean drinkable.
Btw, not only I can found the best wine but even the best bier, which in my opinion (the best bier I know of those I tried in the world) is in Bologna, not in Dublin; (yes Bologna has a cult for bier too, domestically produced).

 

[acbytesla]

Bill, I want to take your invite as sincere. But, 1st, I can't leave Mach2 home, that would be extremely impractical because we are the same person. But above all, I'm not planning to go anywhere like the US nor Canada in the next future. I go to Germany often but... frankly, Italy is not bad.
So I have to decline by now.
However you might underestimate me - as an Italian - if you thouht I won't find the best wine around at very reasonable cost. Believe me my own "winery" in my cellar is full with very good wine, in this moment I have from Piemonte, Veneto and Sicily, when I say good I don't mean drinkable.
Btw, not only I can found the best wine but even the best bier, which in my opinion (the best bier I know of those I tried in the world) is in Bologna, not in Dublin; (yes Bologna has a cult for bier too, domestically produced).

I'm curious Mach. Do you have any American wines in your cellar??

 

[Bill Williams]

Bill, I want to take your invite as sincere. But, 1st, I can't leave Mach2 home, that would be extremely impractical because we are the same person. But above all, I'm not planning to go anywhere like the US nor Canada in the next future. I go to Germany often but... frankly, Italy is not bad.
So I have to decline by now.
However you might underestimate me - as an Italian - if you thouht I won't find the best wine around at very reasonable cost. Believe me my own "winery" in my cellar is full with very good wine, in this moment I have from Piemonte, Veneto and Sicily, when I say good I don't mean drinkable.
Btw, not only I can found the best wine but even the best bier, which in my opinion (the best bier I know of those I tried in the world) is in Bologna, not in Dublin; (yes Bologna has a cult for bier too, domestically produced).

As much as I am beginning to like you, I will bring the beer. Trust me on this one. You bring the wine, I trust you on that. Especially in comparison to me.

It does not have to be the USA or Canada, Germany is fine - I was thinking more to do with London. Can you bring your good wine to London?

 

[katy_did]

I still don't follow the reasoning you are using.

We know Guede removed Meredith's bra after stabbing her.

We know Guede's DNA ended up inside Meredith's vagina somehow.

If Meredith wasn't wearing her jeans and underwear when she was stabbed - as the lack of blood on them might indicate - why assume Guede's DNA couldn't have been left at any point prior to the stabbing? Why is the most logical scenario that it was left afterwards? As LJ pointed out earlier, it could even have been this assault which caused her to struggle and led to her being stabbed.

We don't know whether Guede climaxed or not because the Italian police claim to have been under the delusion that it is impossible to test a semen stain on a pillow without utterly annihilating the entire pillow, although they do understand that you can get DNA off a bra clasp without annihilating the bra clasp. I don't buy that line for a second, personally. But there's weak evidence (a possible semen stain on the pillow under Meredith's hips) that Guede climaxed at the scene.

I doubt it's semen, personally - or Guede's, at any rate. I think he'd have made up some story to explain it if it were. But if it is semen, then it got there before Meredith was lying on the pillow, since she was lying on both the stain and the shoe print which smeared it.

If it's Guede's semen it might point to some other scenario, but it doesn't support the theory Charlie's proposing.

How do you get to the conclusion that the probable series of events is Guede stabbing Meredith while removing her bra, and then not further assaulting her? I'm not saying we can rule that story out beyond any doubt, but it seems like you're not following the path of least logical resistance.

If you rule out the semen stain for the reasons above, then what evidence is there to suggest that Meredith was assaulted after the stabbing? On the face of it, an 'incomplete' assault which was halted due to the stabbing seems a more plausible scenario to me, especially if in fact Guede did only assault her using his fingers, as he claims. It's odd that he would suddenly become cold and calculating enough to place pillows and arrange towels following what had to have been a chaotic and unplanned attack, particularly when he knew any of Meredith's housemates could be home at any moment. Not impossible, but unlikely. Since I see it as unlikely on the face of it, I'd need to see more convincing evidence that it did happen that way before accepting it as the most likely scenario.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm curious Mach. Do you have any American wines in your cellar??

No; from no other country actually, only Italian ones.

It's not racism, wines are like schoolfriends, like fruits from your orchard; they have a taste like the minerals of the land, they are a taste of your home. You know who produced them, the people, the place, the climate that year.
And above all they are everyday things. You just don't do shopping far away.
Among the foreing wines I tasted, I liked some Spanish wines the best, those are the wines I like most after Italian ones; I fail to appreciate the French ones in general, don't like them so much; Californian ones are different, not exactly my "kind", also of a lower quality in average but above all their quality is very variable: the good ones exist but are few and expensive compared to equivalent Europenas. I liked some wines from Greece; and even from Lebanon and Syria when I travelled there and they were not bad.

 

[RandyN]

Evidence for the highlighted part, Randy? One of the defence experts (Introna, I think) argued that Meredith was in the process of undressing when Rudy attacked her: he said some of her clothes (e.g. her jeans, which were next to the bed) had been placed on the bed and then fell on the floor when the duvet was pulled off, and that her sneakers had been placed in front of the wardrobe where there was a shoe rack. There was very little blood on her jeans and socks, and while there was quite a lot on her jacket, it was lying in a pool of blood, and may have been used to wipe up blood before Rudy went for the towels.

Even leaving all that aside, I can't see how being fully-dressed when she was attacked rules out either the date scenario, or proves the assault was carried out after the stabbing.


Exactly, that sort of depravity is rare. Charlie mentioned a couple of cases to me over on IIP a while ago, but when I looked into them they were quite different to this one: both involved men who set out deliberately to kill, for one thing (one of them said he did it because he "wanted to kill a woman"). If I thought Rudy entered the house because he "wanted to kill a woman", I'd have far less difficulty believing he acted in such a sadistic, cold and calculating way after doing so.

Rudy had no history of violence or sadism; no one's even come forward to say he used to kick their puppy as a kid or fried insects with a magnifying glass. What is true is that he was increasingly involved in criminal activity, and was becoming willing to put himself in situations where he might have to use violence and was prepared to use it, as his carrying a knife showed. All the same, it's a step from carrying a knife during a burglary to actually using it to kill someone (though clearly not as big a step as it would be for Amanda and Raffaele) and a further big step from there to the sort of depravity it's alleged happened here. So if there are two scenarios, one involving Rudy behaving like a cornered burglar in a situation of escalating violence, the other likening him to Jeffrey Dahmer, I'm inclined to go with the first unless there's convincing evidence for the second.

OK I dont know how sound the idea of the shoes and socks off already is. This is what I think based on logic since I have never seen the crime scene photos with the body present.

1. Who takes off shoes socks and jeans before removing the outer jacket worn on a cool Nov day? And please stop speculating about illogical statements made by prosecution "experts" as proof of anything...as a reminder one of these experts also thinks he can use intuition to pick a knife from a drawer and another can use it to solve the crime without evidence. And another cant even use a ruler to measure the width of a toe when that is his sole objective...but I digress. The jacket was on during the attack. The proof of that is the turned inside out sleeves. The importance of this can not be ignored (unless you happen to be Italian CSI...then you dont even collect it but instead toss it into the dirty clothes hamper) So, back to my point who undresses like this? Start from the bottom and work your way up? No...that did not happen.

2. The loose jeans could have easily been removed...these were mens jeans that may have fit MK hips somewhat but which had to be loose because they actually belonged to her bf. They could have been pulled off by grabbing the cuffs and pulling or even by grabbing the back belt loop and puling backward as the victim pulled her body in the opposite direction in an all out effort to escape the attack. meanwhile nothing supports the idea of jeans already on the bed and shoes placed near the wardrobe...nothing but the illogical words of another prosecution moron.

3. The blood pattern tells us how the attack happened. Also the time line. The attack had to be after 9:05 and completely over by 10 or however long it takes to leave and ping the tower closer to Lanas garden at whatever time that happened ....10:10 IIRC. so that accounts for a ten minutes walk there...and it should be taken into account the after shock time that Guede must have needed to accomplish the things the evidence seems to indicate...plus someone entered the downstairs with a key and messed up a bed and got blood on several items in different areas...and this is never proved to be cats blood...I seem to recall that Diocletus data concludes that all the pertinent data about these samples was never seen and or is missing. 45 minutes doesn't seem like enough time to have some consensual heavy petting or even some knife point sex...although that could have been the case I suppose.

4. The bloody attack while certainly fully clothed on the top part at least seems to have started near the head of the bed...this is from Ron Hendrys professional analysis which is the only logical one I have seen so far. I suppose some sexual matters could have intervened now but that does not fit what we see in the blood. And one must never ignore the aspirated blood on the outside of the bra and also on the bare breast. This speaks volumes about the timing of Guedes attack and proves that he was demented enough to be ripping the bra off a gasping, gagging, choking wheezing and certainly dying girl.

5. The pillow under the buttocks seems accidental to me...it is not squarely under her from what has been described to me. And the stain may have been caused by leaking urine near or at death...still there is the shoe print that seems to disturb it which could also be semen and then stepped on later since most of this pillow was beside and not under MK. The stain no matter the nature is more notable now due to the refusal of so many courts to examine it. It is illogical and inexcusable to not test this but somehow a trace of LTN supposed material which was invisible on the bleach cleaned knife is critical? That is nonsense.

Being fully dressed is not proof of the nature of the sexual attack. But it plus the tight time frame plus the bloody clothes, seems to suggest the sex thing was after the stabbing thing. And I suppose he could have stabbed a little and played around at undressing her but lets be clear...a rape is not defined as penile penetration only...a digital rape is rape. When it occurred seems less important than if there is evidence that more than one person was involved and participated in this rape. And so far I have seen nothing to indicate any multiple attackers at all, let alone proof that AK and or RS are also involved.

The speculation that Kokomaniac may be involved is just that. He may have been the car in the driveway...but there are no other facts that put him or anyone else there...nothing.

This is all speculation about the details that are tiny and almost irrelevant beside the glaring holes and wild and baseless speculations of the prosecutions case...and to add more insanity to this tortured logic the ISC seems to somehow know conclusively that Guede did not act alone. (note that they never state which evidence they used to conclude this.) And even more wrong now the SC seems to think they can infer that the other people who "assisted" Guede are RS and AK even though there is never evidence to conclude anyone but Guede was involved. These guys seem seem to be logically challenged by logic.

I think the evidence about the nature of Guede is provided. Seen his YouTube submission? Heard what his friends say? The towels? They prove nothing. In fact they help with my scenario as to how and why the bathmat footprint came to be and why no other signs or tracks are leading to and from the bathroom. Guede used the towels when he went into the bathroom to clean up. He tossed them onto the floor partially covering the edge of the bath mat. He removes his one shoe and sock and rinses them in the bidet then he raises his leg to rinse his pants and foot off as well. This causes him to wobble and become unbalanced enough that he must put his wet foot quickly down ....partially on the bath mat. He dries off with the towels and uses them to walk on to return to MK room. He them wipes them in the massive pool of blood in hopes of hiding his trace...not kind Guede...slick lying Guede ...a habitual liar is how his adopted family describe him. A bloody towel is found beside MK body...dont know if it is wrapped around her neck? I would guess that it is not. Rather it is placed to allow an un-bloody approach to the purse he is about to rob.

I could fall for your idea of a accidental escalated killing during a robbery...until he removed her underwear...or do you suppose MK took those off herself as well?

 

[Machiavelli]

As much as I am beginning to like you, I will bring the beer. Trust me on this one. You bring the wine, I trust you on that. Especially in comparison to me.

It does not have to be the USA or Canada, Germany is fine - I was thinking more to do with London. Can you bring your good wine to London?

I tell you, frankly, by now, I feel slightly uncomfortable at the thought of dining with someone expressing ideas like yours. Moreover, I'm not going to London soon. I will have to decline your offer but thank you. Maybe when things have changed and our views on the topics have developed a bit.

 

[Bill Williams]

I tell you, frankly, by now, I feel slightly uncomfortable at the thought of dining with someone expressing ideas like yours. Moreover, I'm not going to London soon. I will have to decline your offer but thank you. Maybe when things have changed and our views on the topics have developed a bit.

This is not a problem. I understand completely. Whereas a differing tone often accompanies a face to face meeting, it is also fraught with uncertainty.

I hope one day.

 

[Ampulla of Vater]

No; from no other country actually, only Italian ones.

It's not racism, wines are like schoolfriends, like fruits from your orchard; they have a taste like the minerals of the land, they are a taste of your home. You know who produced them, the people, the place, the climate that year.
And above all they are everyday things. You just don't do shopping far away.
Among the foreing wines I tasted, I liked some Spanish wines the best, those are the wines I like most after Italian ones; I fail to appreciate the French ones in general, don't like them so much; Californian ones are different, not exactly my "kind", also of a lower quality in average but above all their quality is very variable: the good ones exist but are few and expensive compared to equivalent Europenas. I liked some wines from Greece; and even from Lebanon and Syria when I travelled there and they were not bad.

Geez Mach, you're wrong again. All the wines I have in my wine collection are Italian (and maybe a couple Australian). The ones from the fruits of my orchard, the ones which taste like my home, are substandard in comparison to the wines of Italy. And that is a fact!

 

[RandyN]

If Meredith wasn't wearing her jeans and underwear when she was stabbed - as the lack of blood on them might indicate - why assume Guede's DNA couldn't have been left at any point prior to the stabbing? Why is the most logical scenario that it was left afterwards? As LJ pointed out earlier, it could even have been this assault which caused her to struggle and led to her being stabbed.



I doubt it's semen, personally - or Guede's, at any rate. I think he'd have made up some story to explain it if it were. But if it is semen, then it got there before Meredith was lying on the pillow, since she was lying on both the stain and the shoe print which smeared it.

If it's Guede's semen it might point to some other scenario, but it doesn't support the theory Charlie's proposing.



If you rule out the semen stain for the reasons above, then what evidence is there to suggest that Meredith was assaulted after the stabbing? On the face of it, an 'incomplete' assault which was halted due to the stabbing seems a more plausible scenario to me, especially if in fact Guede did only assault her using his fingers, as he claims. It's odd that he would suddenly become cold and calculating enough to place pillows and arrange towels following what had to have been a chaotic and unplanned attack, particularly when he knew any of Meredith's housemates could be home at any moment. Not impossible, but unlikely. Since I see it as unlikely on the face of it, I'd need to see more convincing evidence that it did happen that way before accepting it as the most likely scenario.

The logical sequence of your theory is not logical at all. Your idea that the semen could not be Guedes or is even semen does not work. The pillow was not fully under MK. Perhaps he knelt on the pillow as he worked his magic. In any case I still happen to think it is a urine stain belonging to MK which is most logical but far from certain. I agree that Guede may have made an excuse for it but remember that he did mention something about this in his call and that something was a denial IIRC. Personally I dont think Guede said all that much until he understood quite well what the police were leaking and what the press was reporting. He had volumes of information and lots of time to rehearse different stories....but honestly I dont think this guy is a mastermind or anything...just a pretty slick liar but who like all liars never understands when he has gone too far or else he overestimates his ability to deceive.

I would take all bets that this is exactly why someone ...gee I wonder who...suggested and approved his application for a fast track trial. No need for all that harsh and revealing cross examination...much easier to catch the toss of the soft ball.