Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[codyjuneau]

I believe she was his primary source of information until she passed away. I think he switched to drug dealers after that.

.
But surely she still talks to him from the spirit world?
.

 

[Machiavelli]

Machiavelli:

What is Mr. Mignini's relationship with the fortune teller Ms. Carlizzi? Why is it in his letter, which you translated, he does not distance himself from her?

In the real world, the only relation between Mignini and Gabriella Carlizzi is that he arrested her. The charge on which she was arrested is perjury. In fact, she had the habit of claiming knowledge about secret sects and knowing things about murders allegedly committed by immaginary sects. So as she made these claims and wanted to be heared as a witness, she repeatedly submitted her "testimonies" to the Perugia prosecution office, but she told things which were obviously made up and obviously Mignini arrested her. This is basically her relation with Mignini.
She happened anyway to have some kind of profetic 'wit' on some things, in particular she hated Spezi and warned about 'plots' around the Narducci affair. She merely worked on rumors already existing.

 

[Machiavelli]

What is incredible here is how (and why) Machiavelli switches gears on this issue. He goes on some grand parsing of word meaning - all the while trying to get Mr. Mignini off the hook for something......

........ that caused his colleague, Manuela Comodi, to threaten to quit the case if he went to trial with the theory.

Why is Machiavelli and Mignini so desperate to shed themselves from something that is obvious? Why not just call RoseM a liar like he does (usually) and be done with it?

And he simply slips by mention of Gabriella Carlizzi as if bringing her up is too much.....

Sometimes I just wonder why you just don't you feel the need to prove anything about your beliefs.

 

[acbytesla]

But you are not rooting for the Boston bomber. I suppose.
He is presumed innocent, until the trial is over, by the law. But for you to root for him or believe him, I guess that requires something more than just being indicted of some crime.
To believe someone is innocent, or to root for him, or just to believe him when he writes articles or complains with the CPJ, as you claim to do, that is something quite different.

AMAZING!!!! You just compared Spezi to the Boston Bomber!!!! I really can't believe you Mach. The Boston bombers killed 4 people and injured 264 people, 14 or whom required amputations of limbs. But even they deserve to be viewed as "innocent" until proven guilty.

With you, the accusation is enough. We see that in the Amanda Knox trial. Where your head investigator said that they didn't need evidence. Where they questioned Amanda until she buckled telling you exactly what you thought you knew already. But of course that turned out wrong.

With all respect, your judicial system lacks the integrity to make truthful and righteous decisions. I don't think I could ever trust your system to provide justice to anyone. I've seen it in action.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yup, it's officially now scary. You actually believe what you write.

You wrote that you could tell that Amanda Knox could choose not to sleep and you gleaned this from referencing her writings. Now you're telling me that I misunderstood and misrepresent what you said, THEN you go on to say exactly the same thing again.
(...)

Sorry, "that Amanda Knox could choose not to sleep" and that "it is obvious that she was not suffering of any serious degree of sleep-deprivation syndrome",
it is not the same thing.
It is, obviously, an alteration and misrepresentation of what I said.

 

[Machiavelli]

AMAZING!!!! You just compared Spezi to the Boston Bomber!!!! I really can't believe you Mach. The Boston bombers killed 4 people and injured 264 people, 14 or whom required amputations of limbs. But even they deserve to be viewed as "innocent" until proven guilty.

Yes. I did. You can believe me.

Albeit Spezi did not kill people (at least not yet), he is associated with people who did, and was willing to commit crimes to protect them (and now himself).
Above all, he is willing to damage the collectivity by perverting collective institutions, which is something quite dangerous.

With you, the accusation is enough. We see that in the Amanda Knox trial. Where your head investigator said that they didn't need evidence. Where they questioned Amanda until she buckled telling you exactly what you thought you knew already. But of course that turned out wrong

.

You talk ********. There is no relation between your second paragraph and the first.
Btw, the usual allegation "exactly what you thought you knew already" is, of course, another of the usual repeated lies (just like the Satanic ritual). Instead of running after these mistranslations, making uo of statments in a language you don't understand, you'd better just look at things Knox and Sollecito maintained through the statements they made during investigation and trial.

Edited by zooterkin: 

Edited for Rule 10. Do not attempt to evade the autocensor.

 

[Mary_H]

1. Micheli is not Mignini.
2. "rito/i" means a lot of things. It's a more comon word in Italian than English, used to mean more things than the English "rite"/"ritual".
<snip>
This is what the word means, but pay attention, Mignini doesn't use it.
I read elsewhere reported that Mignini (maybe in a court reply) also defined the "festino" as "rito casalingo" (house-made-rite), but this is was reported within inverted commas and it is almost an oximore ("rito" and "casalingo" tend to be opposites, "rito" meaning precise, due, exact, predictable and some established practice; "casalingo" meaning imprecise, gross, casual, clumsy and impractical, non-established and house-made).
This is the only context in which the Italian press reported the word "rito" as being used by the prosecution (that would be, obvious, a slightly ironical context), however I never found this word in the trial papers.

Why would Micheli use it to respond to Mignini if it were not one of Mignini's arguments? Please note, too, that Mignini uses the word "hazing" in his new letter. Hazing is a ritual.

To put a different twist on things, though, I wonder why Mignini cares about these allegations. Catholics are supposed to believe in the devil. Massei's final conclusion, that the defendants "chose evil" is very subjective and obviously hearkens to religious beliefs. Why doesn't Mignini want to let people think he saw dark, evil, ritualistic and possibly demonic elements in the crime?

 

[Machiavelli]

It was just one of those fun party things, Mach. You know a riti. Big riti. I love a good riti.

Seems you have run out of ideas.
I wait for the moment when you can see you lost and you don't attempt to use any argument any more; now I anticipate you turn to the "flippant-nursery-schoolgirl" mode and tell us some pun, to show us that you can still ring-around-the-rosey clapping your hands and he is the bad guy....

 

[acbytesla]

It is clear that Mignini has put more innocent people behind bars than anyone guilty.

 

[Diocletus]

Does anyone know why Mignini is so obsessed with Halloween and occult superstitions? It's obviously prevalent in Italy, but still, I'm surprised to see such behavior in a prosecutor.

 

[Diocletus]

Seems you have run out of ideas.
I wait for the moment when you can see you lost and you don't attempt to use any argument any more; now I anticipate you turn to the "flippant-nursery-schoolgirl" mode and tell us some pun, to show us that you can still ring-around-the-rosey clapping your hands and he is the bad guy....

"Lost"? What, you think this case is a game and the practically-illiterate Italian Supreme Court judges get to decide who is the winner? Nope. All they've done so far is taken a local problem and turned it into a national embarrassment.

 

[Grinder]

Apparently Harry Rag was already a pro guilt campaigner on another case before the Amanda Knox case happened. Just try doing a search on these names.

Ian Stephens

Starryian

Starryian007

This guy has used scores of user names and sometimes pretends to be an aristocratic female poster called Ghislane.

Interesting. Are you sure she isn't an aristocratic female?

You may wish to start a thread on this as you may run into trouble on this one with off subject issues.

I would love to know more about the rag as she has been part of demonizing many people.

 

[Machiavelli]

Why would Micheli use it to respond to Mignini if it were not one of Mignini's arguments? Please note, too, that Mignini uses the word "hazing" in his new letter. Hazing is a ritual.

To put a different twist on things, though, I wonder why Mignini cares about these allegations. Catholics are supposed to believe in the devil. Massei's final conclusion, that the defendants "chose evil" is very subjective and obviously hearkens to religious beliefs. Why doesn't Mignini want to let people think he saw dark, evil, ritualistic and possibly demonic elements in the crime?

I'm not an expert about theological issues since I'm not a Catholic, but from what I know, I actually doubt that it's entirely correct to say Catholics are supposed to "believe in the devil". But actually I don't know.
I think Mignini cares about htese allegations simply because they are not true. They are part of a narrative that was devised by Mario Spezi in the first place, that was found "ready-to-use" by the FoA. The narrative includes alleged relation with Carlizzi and so on.
As far as I know (and it is something you might not know, revealing your utter ignorance about true personalities, and your reliance on second-hand sources) Francesco Maresca is a person far more prone to religious suggestion and moralistic views compared to Mignini; who, in my opinion, appears to be very simple and rational.
Mignini, for what I know, is a person fond about local culture and about culture and history of communities in general. He is very "Perugian" and Perugians don't have any particular sympathy nor for Catholic hierarchies, neither they have any hystory about witches or devil. They have instead a lot of heretics, pagans, religious dissidents protesters (and they have Francesco, the proto-ecology nature-lover mystic).

"Hazing", well, that's an English word; it's a translation.
The original is:

(...) è la risultante di un gioco erotico a cui non intendeva prestarsi la stessa Meredith e, soprattutto, di un clima di ostilità progressivamente venutosi a instaurare

We translated "gioco erotico" with "sex hazing", but in fact Mignini wrote "gioco" which literally means "game".
(btw, actually, a game is a ritual too).

 

[Machiavelli]

....
3) proves that he will use the media to spread his message, as he has demonstrated from the beginning.
....

Of course. Writing a short letter in response to a defamatory article, and sign it with your name, is "using the media".
Of course.

 

[Bill Williams]

In the real world, the only relation between Mignini and Gabriella Carlizzi is that he arrested her. The charge on which she was arrested is perjury. In fact, she had the habit of claiming knowledge about secret sects and murdder allegedly committed by immaginary sects. So as she made these claims and wanted to be heared as a witness, she repeatedly submitted her "testimonies" to the Perugia prosecution office, but she told things which were obviously made up and obviously Mignini arrested her. This is basically her relation with Mignini.
She happened anyway to have some kind of profetic 'wit' on some things, in particular she hated Spezi and warned about 'plots' around the Narducci affair. She merely worked on rumors already existing.

I do appreciate now why you (and Mr. Migini) now wish to distance Mignini from Ms. Carlizzi. No matter. Their relationship is simply a matter of the public record.

You know, Mach 1, I am beginning to like you. Please let me know when we can meet. I'll buy the dinner and you choose the restaurant and the wine. One thing I trust you with over my own abilities is your taste in wine. I'll buy, but the wine has to be within reason.

We will need a translator and I am sure you have one available who can manage. She buys for herself. Sorry, that's just how I feel.

Oh, and it cannot be in Italy. We could do it, say, one time zone to the west, and a few countries to the north.

Please do not refuse.

 

[Bill Williams]

Of course. Writing a short letter in response to a defamatory article, and sign it with your name, is "using the media".
Of course.

You mean he did not release this to the media? I apologize. It seems he kept it to himself. I then cannot figure out why we are aware it it then. This is so confusing!

 

[Machiavelli]

Your own quote belies you, Machiavelli...

This is a Google Translate of what you, yourself, provided.....

For you to say that this only refers to only "a little fun", presumably unconnected with the date - the date which Mr. Mignini himself finds so much meaning in - is all the evidence fair and impartial readers of this JREF service need.

Certainly, it is not the descritpion of a ritualistic murder.

And, it is not written by Mignini.

I will leave it to others to decide who the liar is here. I say that Mignini accused Knox and Sollecito of engaging in a Satanic ritualistic murder. You say that it was not a full blown "riutal" per se, but "a little fun," "a little party"... presumably, though, still associated with Hallowe'en.

Exactly. And when you say Mignini accused someone of engaging in a Satanic ritualistic murder, you are lying.

 

[Mary_H]

I'm not an expert about theological issues since I'm not a Catholic, but from what I know, I actually doubt that it's entirely correct to say Catholics are supposed to "believe in the devil". But actually I don't know.
I think Mignini cares about htese allegations simply because they are not true. They are part of a narrative that was devised by Mario Spezi in the first place, that was found "ready-to-use" by the FoA. The narrative includes alleged relation with Carlizzi and so on.

Okay, I can see that. I do have one question, though -- has Mignini made it known before this that he does not want this misrepresentation to continue? Because it has been in the mass media since the first week of the case.

As far as I know (and it is something you might not know, revealing your utter ignorance about true personalities, and your reliance on second-hand sources) Francesco Maresca is a person far more prone to religious suggestion and moralistic views compared to Mignini; who, in my opinion, appears to be very simple and rational.

Thank you for calling attention to my utter ignorance about true personalities. I shall take your remarks under advisement. I respect the fact that your information about Maresca is the result of firsthand experience, but from what I have seen (albeit based on ignorance and distance), Maresca is a man bereft of any moral fiber whatsoever. He may be religious, though. (I like to keep Bill Williams laughing.)

<snip>"Hazing", well, that's an English word; it's a translation.
The original is:

We translated "gioco erotico" with "sex hazing", but in fact Mignini wrote "gioco" which literally means "game".
(btw, actually, a game is a ritual too).

You're telling me.

 

[Machiavelli]

I do appreciate now why you (and Mr. Migini) now wish to distance Mignini from Ms. Carlizzi. No matter. Their relationship is simply a matter of the public record.

Again, you are doing nothing to verify yourself. You buy a story from Spezi and Preston.
What is in the record - visible in *your* records - is that the alleged "relation" between Caralizzi and Mignini is just the main topic of Spezi's narrative. It is a fact that Spezi spent years of his life building a narrative about an alleged relation between Carlizzi and Mignini. This is in Spezi's book. It's his story, the story he created to serve his own interest, is the main theme in his defamation campaign. It's not something from the real world.

 

[Diocletus]

Is it more common for Italian magistrates to be occult fantasists or just regular perverts? Do they teach these classes in Italian law schools? I think they must.