Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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I have not gotten invested in this case or paid as close of attention as perhaps I should, but I just ran across a video on ABC or something where I found out they're possibly wanting to get her back to Italy...

I find this whole thing incredible. Based on what I've seen, which admittedly isn't everything, it seems to me the idea that anyone other than this Guede guy was involved, is laughable. The "case" against Amanda Knox and her ex-bf seems to be a complete joke.

It is truly terrifying that a first world nation has a "justice" system like this in the 21st century.
 
billyryan said:
One thing is certain after this morning's hearing that despite whatever bribe Aviello has being offered by the lying squad and the other prisoner Alessi despite being shunned by society and considered the dregs of society and are confined to prison for the safety of society they still have more honour than the Perugia police Mignini Stefanoni and Comodi and the liars they put on the stand.The two convicted prisoners came to court took the oath and told the truth something that none of the former did,it sure does say something about calibar of people in power in Perugia
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http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cronaca/2013/10/04/960268-processo-meredith.shtml

One question I would like answered, and perhaps Machiavlelli can answer it, is why was Andrea Vogt not tweeting about this?

Andrea Vogt tweets things which fit Giuliano Mignini's worldview and take on the horrible Kercher murder. Why no tweet about this?

Eh Machiavelli?
 
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billyryan said:
One thing is certain after this morning's hearing that despite whatever bribe Aviello has being offered by the lying squad and the other prisoner Alessi despite being shunned by society and considered the dregs of society and are confined to prison for the safety of society they still have more honour than the Perugia police Mignini Stefanoni and Comodi and the liars they put on the stand.The two convicted prisoners came to court took the oath and told the truth something that none of the former did,it sure does say something about calibar of people in power in Perugia
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I wonder if Maresca pulled out the picture of the little boy that Alessi aledgidly murdered like he did last time? Didn't Mach just tell us that a convicted criminal can never again be questioned about his crime?
 
Randy I had seen that Yummi post and in fact I pointed this board to it. Mach didn't like my summary of it.

I would like Mach to expound on what finding a fourth man's semen on the pillow. This request isn't meant to be a trap but rather a real discussion. If the semen doesn't come from Rudy, Raf or Giacomo it would seem to raise questions.
If it turned out to be another boyfriend of Meredith then that boyfriend would need to account for his time as that would fit Rudy's original story. If it is that of a known criminal and associate of Kokomani or Koko himself that would fill in the blank of what Koko was doing there and who was with Rudy.

Bill are you trying to say Mach and Vogt are the same person? I know I shouldn't feed you here, but even if true what difference would it make.

CD is pro innocence and has been from the start and you quote her all the time. If you ever saw the SBS Dateline show with the reporters you'd know that Vogt thinks the police and prosecutors made their case.

If someone has that show link, I think Bill would enjoy it.
 
Amanda staying home seems to be a good choice all the way around. No reports of what she's wearing today. Everyone's focus can be on the lack of evidence and waste of money that Monday as well as today has provided.

Aviello in his/her dress today fit's right in with Mignini's circus. Another super witness who cant testify to anything. People can focus on the lack of evidence instead.

Quick question: Didn't Rafs sister work for the Carabinieri who she said believed her brother was guilty?
 
Strange that our pro guilt and pro involvement posters have disappeared except Mach.

I just read some of the Aviello accounts and found it interesting that all parties found his testimony of no value.

On his reliability neither the defences, nor the civil parties, nor the prosecutor were convinced. In fact, he was called as a result of a determination in the decision of the Cassation court .​

Now given that all parties, defense, prosecution and civil, think his testimony was a waste of time, doesn't that say that they all think the ISC didn't know what they are doing.

Now when the ISC and Hellmann give that same reading on the stain it is touted as showing that it is just following the law. When they disagree is showing that Hellmann didn't know what he was doing.

Once again, I ask Mach not to look at legal technicalities but rather the best use of time to seek the truth. Wouldn't it be better to have used time and resources to test the stain and review the foot print analysis than bringing Aviello to court. I think they could all of it but choices must be made bring A was a mistake.

Does anybody know if the police will be recalled to testify about the interrogation? At least the chief about his comments the next day. How could you have believed AK's Lumumba statement if you knew what was correct?

Why doesn't a reporter ask that question of him? They should request an interview and when not given, report that. The defense needs to unravel that interrogation in order to turn the case. I hope that when the knife comes back negative that the court acquits but would bet the farm (Anglo I know how you like our US idioms).
 
GreyFox said:
Amanda staying home seems to be a good choice all the way around. No reports of what she's wearing today. Everyone's focus can be on the lack of evidence and waste of money that Monday as well as today has provided.
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Au contraire the PGP are reporting on details of a question she asked in math class. She used the self description as being crazy as in "I may be crazy but.."

Aviello in his/her dress today fit's right in with Mignini's circus. Another super witness who cant testify to anything. People can focus on the lack of evidence instead.
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To be fair the defense called him.

Quick question: Didn't Rafs sister work for the Carabinieri who she said believed her brother was guilty?
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She worked for them but I don't remember the second half of the sentence. I'm sure some in the Carabinieri think she is guilty. I'm sure they all think the state police are a joke.
 
Who will carry out the investigation?

Does anyone know the names of the Carabinieri officers who will carry out the investigation?
 
Katody Matrass said:
Not this time.
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The ISC ordered it this time and he woulkdn't be in the case at all if the defense hadn't had him called during the Hellmann appeal. It is not accurate to blame the prosecution for him at all IMO.
 
halides1 said:
Does anyone know the names of the Carabinieri officers who will carry out the investigation?
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According to your friends over at TJMK;
TJMK said:
two Carabinieri DNA scientists have been appointed to conduct tests on the knife. Their names are Major Andrea Berti and Captain Filippo Barni.
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Matthew Best said:
Did anyone do that?
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I took this

Aviello in his/her dress today fit's right in with Mignini's circus. Another super witness who cant testify to anything. People can focus on the lack of evidence instead.
​

to mean that it was Mignini's witness since he was the one with "super witnesses".

I didn't mean for this to be more than a small point about which side was responsible for bringing this guy into the case.
 
Did someone put DNA in the bleach bottle???

Total amount of DNA, described as “abundant,” amplified from bra clasp hooks, Rep. 165b: 5.7 nanograms.

Total amount of DNA amplified so far from “bleach-cleaned” knife, Rep. 36: more than 4.8 nanograms. Plus nice deposits of inorganic food debris.

So, how did they manage to bleach-clean the knife, yet leave DNA from multiple donors in almost as much quantity as the “abundant” amounts found on the clasp, and also leave food debris?
 
CoulsdonUK said:
According to your friends over at TJMK;
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So Coulsdon what do you think of the court's decisions so far?

Do you think that Maresca is honoring the requests of the Kerchers to investigate thoroughly to find the truth?

Do you agree with the court not testing the stain when the shoe prints on the pillow are not being reviewed?

Considering that the PLE destroyed the hard-drives, molded the towels, put MK's blood in a container that tripled the BAC and the other obvious destruction of evidence, do think their reasoning that testing the stain would compromise the partial shoe print is reasonable?

Since Rudy says he didn't produce the semen and Aviello says he told him he did, would that make Rudy's confession to him credible?

If the knife's (not the "murder knife" as the british tabs are reporting) material isn't from Meredith what does mean to you?
 
Is the Carabinieri really nuetral ?

halides1 said:
No, she believes he is innocent. Link to interview.
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Thanks Chris !
What I'm driving at, is how the Carabinieri treated his sister (who worked for them) after Raf was accused of this crime. And now there going to test the knife?:eek:

Q: What happened at your job?

Vanessa: Lots of my colleagues and superiors at the beginning isolated me. Some of them told me we could not criticize police operations. Some of them listened to TV and media and trusted that my brother was guilty. After I showed them documents from the case, they didn’t answer. They didn’t want go inside that situation. They were indifferent. For them, I was a problem because of my surname, and because I helped my family with my abilities.

One day, after two years of my brother’s tragedy, I was presented with a bad situation. For two years, my employers had been pressuring me to resign, but I didn’t want to lose my job, so I resisted. In January 2009 the system decided to hold a competition — one I had won years before — to decide my future employment and that of a few of my colleagues. This was illegal.
 
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Diocletus said:
Total amount of DNA, described as “abundant,” amplified from bra clasp hooks, Rep. 165b: 5.7 nanograms.

Total amount of DNA amplified so far from “bleach-cleaned” knife, Rep. 36: more than 4.8 nanograms. Plus nice deposits of inorganic food debris.

So, how did they manage to bleach-clean the knife, yet leave DNA from multiple donors in almost as much quantity as the “abundant” amounts found on the clasp, and also leave food debris?
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Rhetorical I know, but there is no evidence that bleach was used anywhere. The smeller of Volturno couldn't have smelled bleach from days before. Had the kids cleaned the knife with bleach they would have left it on the knife while destroying the DNA and they would have been aware that they needed to get rid of the smell. They would have aired out the flat before returning to the cottage knowing that the police might come to Raf's flat immediately.

I don't understand the amounts of material very well. At what point do we leave LCN and reach full blown DNA amounts.
 
Grinder said:
Rhetorical I know, but there is no evidence that bleach was used anywhere. The smeller of Volturno couldn't have smelled bleach from days before. Had the kids cleaned the knife with bleach they would have left it on the knife while destroying the DNA and they would have been aware that they needed to get rid of the smell. They would have aired out the flat before returning to the cottage knowing that the police might come to Raf's flat immediately.

I don't understand the amounts of material very well. At what point do we leave LCN and reach full blown DNA amounts.
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Those two numbers are well in excess of LCN (abt 1/1000th of a nanogram, I think). Sample 36b was likely very small, if it existed at all (the amplification records that would tell us have been suppressed), but 36b is only a very small fraction of the total DNA so far taken off of that knife.
 
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