So why should I not be ticked off with the GOP right now?

[applecorped]

This is great!

 

[thaiboxerken]

They are trying to shutdown the government so they can try and get rid of a program that will get me health insurance for the first time in a decade.

So why should I not be beyond angry with them?

Anyone want to talk me off the ledge here about why I shouldn't care they are trying to stop me from getting health insurance?

Anyone?

Because.... Benghazi!

 

[Mister Earl]

I suppose we can consider it "Turnabout is fair play." Now the Republicans can get back at the Democrats from shutting down the government every time a Republican is president!



... oh, wait. They've never done that?

 

[quadraginta]

Fake outrage is fake. Substitute "holding the country hostage" for "terrorism".

"Extortion" is a term which comes to mind as well, But I have no problem with the description "political terrorism" either.

I'm not even sure the qualifier is needful. The result of paralyzing the government will be real physical harm to a lot of people, not to mention mental and financial distress. Maybe not enough to satisfy a technical definition of the term, but short of immediate physical violence it certainly touches a lot of the same bases.

I suspect that Ziggurat's sensitivity to the description is largely because it strikes uncomfortably close to home.

 

[daredelvis]

There is terrorism, and there is not terrorism. And a government shutdown is not terrorism. It's an insult to victims of actual terrorism to try to exploit that genuine horror for merely rhetorical effect.

But I want to thank you for doing so anyways, because that makes it clear that you don't actually have anything of value to say on the subject.

Yes, because the real issue is the use of hyperbole in discussing the unprecedented tactics of the Tea Party extremists. Their actions are indefensible.

Daredelvis

 

[fuelair]

As a recovering Republican, I want to note that I've seen the conduct of my party over the past fifteen years or so, and as a direct result of that, I will NOT be voting Republican until my party shakes loose the nuts and stops this political terrorism they seem to be so hell bent about. Well, that and about six or twelve other issues I have with the current lot.

Actually, the process started about 30 years ago -when the republicans started meeting/collaborating with the fundie xtian crazies - and it has increased at an increasing rate leading to essentially no republicans still here and functional - just republickers and tea bagger bboys and girls.

 

[Myron Proudfoot]

A protest vote against something that is going to pass anyway is far, far different from holding the nation's economy hostage if a minority doesn't get its way. The debt ceiling was raised once in 2007 and twice in 2008 when Bush was president and the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. They didn't hold the country hostage like the republicans are now.

FYI, Senator did not vote on the first two, but voted Yea on the 2d for 2008.


Basically the republicans, not content with denying food to the poor, have declared that they will shut the government down if we don't deny health care to millions of Americans.

they are SICK.

 

[12AX7]

There is terrorism, and there is not terrorism. And a government shutdown is not terrorism. It's an insult to victims of actual terrorism to try to exploit that genuine horror for merely rhetorical effect.

But I want to thank you for doing so anyways, because that makes it clear that you don't actually have anything of value to say on the subject.

There are childish temper tantrums, and there is not childish temper tantrums. The current GOP performance is a temper tantrum. It's an insult to victims of actual temper tantrums (like parents and teachers) to try to exploit that genuine temper tantrum for merely rhetorical effect.

But I want to thank you for daftly ignoring the hyperbole anyways, because that makes it clear you will do anything to try to save the face of your party.

I didn't say terrorism. I said political terrorism.

We can agree to disagree, but this is how I see it. Would you like to discuss anything else I mentioned in that post, or was your level of concern limited entirely to something you felt you could rip on me for?

He knows what you meant. Remember, he has to defend his party's antics, whatever the cost.

Fake outrage is fake. Substitute "holding the country hostage" for "terrorism".

This. ^^^^

 

[jj]

Ok, if it's holding the country hostage, it's kidnapping?

 

[MattusMaximus]

I am pissed off. If they at least had an alternative to the ACA I might have a bit of sympathy for their position. As they have no alternative plan and shutting down the government will not stop the ACA I can only assume they are idiots. They have backed themselves into a corner, they know they can not win, yet they insist on fighting no matter how much damage it does to the nation and themselves. Idiots and fools.

Tomorrow I will be able to get health insurance that covers my pre-existing condition no matter what the GOP does.

Yup, and that's the good news

https://www.healthcare.gov/

 

[thaiboxerken]

The morons in the House just sent another budget/bill out that intends to cripple the ACA, the Senate just rejected it. The GOP looks to shutdown the government.

 

[Bob001]

Well here's the rub:

First of all, more voters actually voted for Democrats (for the House of Representatives) in 2012 than for Republicans. Due to Gerrymandering, the Republican majority in the House actually represent a minority of American voters.
......

Rachel Maddow talked about this tonight. In 2012 Democratic Congressional candidates received 1.4 million more votes than the Republicans (as noted in the Wiki link), but Republican state legislatures in 2010 gerrymandered Congressional districts to boost Republican-favored districts and weaken Democratic districts. The only solution is to have district borders drawn by some non-partisan independent commission, or to develop alternate voting procedures.

 

[Biscuit]

The sad part is the tea baggers think their reps are holding the ACA hostage but what they are really holding hostage is the country, the economy, and the well being of millions. For all their complaints of big government interfering in people's lives and businesses this is about the worst thing the tea baggers could do, it's big government over reach and interference on an unprecedented level. It's 100x more damaging than anything they imagine the ACA will do.

 

[Biscuit]

Rachel Maddow talked about this tonight. In 2012 Democratic Congressional candidates received 1.4 million more votes than the Republicans (as noted in the Wiki link), but Republican state legislatures in 2010 gerrymandered Congressional districts to boost Republican-favored districts and weaken Democratic districts. The only solution is to have district borders drawn by some non-partisan independent commission, or to develop alternate voting procedures.

That's what we do here in AZ. a bipartisan commission draws the districts. The republicans at the state house are furious about it and have tried to torpedo it from the day they first met.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The sad part is the tea baggers think their reps are holding the ACA hostage but what they are really holding hostage is the country, the economy, and the well being of millions. For all their complaints of big government interfering in people's lives and businesses this is about the worst thing the tea baggers could do, it's big government over reach and interference on an unprecedented level. It's 100x more damaging than anything they imagine the ACA will do.

They don't know what the heck they are afraid of. They are just afraid because they're told to be afraid.

 

[fuelair]

They don't know what the heck they are afraid of. They are just afraid because they're told to be afraid.

They are mostly afraid they will never get back to the glory days of the 1950s - no women's lib, no integration, no smart-mouth kids, everybody at church on Sundays and often on Wednesday nights. Except, they have forgotten some important facts: The things/movements that would become integration and women's lib were already in motion, the kids who were so nice and well behaved were sighted right towards the hippy/anti-lots of stuff and churches were seeing lowering attendance. The 50s weren't what they dream about - only the tv and some movies were. Oh, and let's not forget "What's good for General Bullmoose is good for the USA!!" Corporations were neatsie keeno (that's 20s/30s - but they don't know the difference) and the military was grand - except when they took Elvis into the Army. It's all *********** gone and they can't handle it so they throw their little tantrums and pray for change - they are having their prayers answered too....With a great deep flatulent air:

"NOOOO!!!"





And may they rot in hell for what they are trying to do to real people out of their fear and hatred of anyone not them.

 

[Travis]

So far this thread has not provided me with a reason to not be angry.

Now for the moment I'm not losing my healthcare. But....I have yet to see any good argument for why I should not be pissed that they are trying to make it so I will.

 

[Travis]

If they are fairly representing the people that elected them, they are doing their job. How is your representative voting?

Well two that I actually voted for, Fienstein and Boxer, are very much for passing a budget that still allows me to keep my health insurance. Someone I voted against, Denhem, is living up to his reputation as an ass.

This is how the balance of power shakes out in our system. The House of Representatives has considerable power and they are exercising it. I don't see why we should demand they roll over, simply because the Senate and the President have a different opinion.

"Take it to the mattresses" might be just what their voters want from them. The mood may shift with the hard times a shutdown would entail. Are the voters in Podunk Kentucky going to change their minds once the welfare checks quit coming in? Hopefully.

But we complain when politicians don't keep the promises they made to get elected. I think some of these intransigents are trying to do just that.

I see. So if a politician ran on a campaign of "Imprison and then kill all the Travises" I should not be angry when he keeps the promise that ends up with me imprisoned and in line to be executed because I dared to be named Travis?

You should be upset with what they are doing. Although I would think you should be more upset with the wonderful state of California for not having a program in place in the past decade for people in your situation.

Trust me I have huge issues with the way California is run. They've pretty much only done one thing right in the last twenty years.

A lot of people (including some of our elected officials) firmly believe allowing the plan to continue will be disastrous for the nation.

Well that's great. I bet there is also someone that thinks chemtrails are real and part of a depopulation program. If some of them got elected should we be happy if they use tactics like this to force all planes to the ground?

I realized you have it backwards.

It's not you who should be upset with the GOP. It's they who are rightfully upset with you.

Don't you realize you need health insurance? Why haven't you done everything possible to get it? If it's a matter of employment you should get a better job (ignoring the fact that those jobs lacking health benefits are still necessary and someone will have to fill them)

Do you have a pre-existing condition and you can't get coverage? If so well... go talk to a church or charity. They'll maybe do something.

But mostly you need to stop trying to turn this country into a socialist nightmare just because you're all whiny about dying.

*the above sarcasm represents what I see as the right wing solution to our healthcare problem*

 

[marplots]

I see. So if a politician ran on a campaign of "Imprison and then kill all the Travises" I should not be angry when he keeps the promise that ends up with me imprisoned and in line to be executed because I dared to be named Travis?

I guess that depends on whether or not anger is your go-to method for dealing with stuff you don't like or fear will harm you. Unless you have the ability to turn it on and off, I don't see how there could be a "should" in the mix at all. I get angry sometimes; it doesn't seem connected to a "should" or an "ought" at all.

 

[Brainster]

Alright, let's talk about the obvious here. Travis loves the ACA. Why? Well, basically because he sees it as a game that is rigged in his favor. He will put a relatively small amount in and get a relatively large amount out.

I don't mind admitting that I feel the opposite. I feel like someone who's being forced to take a bad bet. The roulette wheel has 38 possible spots and I'm being told that I should accept a .005-1 payoff because, hey, there's another guy over here who's getting 1000-1.

Insurance to me has been a terrible racket; I have paid out a huge amount compared to the claims I have submitted. Car insurance? I have probably paid somewhere around $30,000 so far in my life. Claims? Well, I did have my convertible top broken into twice, so say $900. Couple of minor fender benders might add $1000 to the total; but I didn't see any of that.

Home insurance I have easily spent $30,000 on. Zero payouts so far.

Health insurance is harder to quantify since much of what I had was when I was "employed" by a big company. I can say that in the last 30 uninsured years I have spent a tiny amount on traditional health care. Maybe I'm lucky that way and maybe my luck is about to change (given family history that is unlikely).