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We have all progressed from the beginning of time to our birth in mortality. Some choices, thoughts and actions in mortality however may cause regression.
How the hell can we progress before our birth ?
As mentioned earlier in this thread:
The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
Intelligence, the light of truth, was not created nor made.
One who organises materials in a completely new way, by organising the existing matter available, is a creator.
The creation was twofold—first Spiritual, secondly temporal.
Our intelligence was born into a Spiritual body through our Heavenly parents. This Spiritual body grew to maturity, as each of us reached a different stage of knowledge and elevated intelligence.
We were then each given the choice to further progress by choosing to come to this earth in order for our Spiritual body to receive a mortal body for a trial period.
Our progression has brought us to this moment and all will continue to progress through the eternities, excepting for those who choose Lucifer and follow him to outer darkness and regress back to their state as the intelligence they were in the beginning.
 
This thread almost makes me long for another "good" DOC thread... at least those were mildly entertaining.
 
It's the same discussion Janadele has had on other forums. It follows the same pattern, going nowhere for a bit before doubling back on itself. For whatever reason, she gets off on it, which is fine...but this thread is starting to repeat itself. Is it really worth it? She's not going to do anything differently.

Just sayin'. :)

Possibly not, but it is rather masochistically fun.
 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not support evil and immorality.

So when the LDS banned African Americans from the priest hood, that wasn't immoral?
When the LDS supported polygamy, that wasn't immoral?
 
As mentioned earlier in this thread:
The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
Intelligence, the light of truth, was not created nor made.
One who organises materials in a completely new way, by organising the existing matter available, is a creator.
The creation was twofold—first Spiritual, secondly temporal.
Our intelligence was born into a Spiritual body through our Heavenly parents. This Spiritual body grew to maturity, as each of us reached a different stage of knowledge and elevated intelligence.
We were then each given the choice to further progress by choosing to come to this earth in order for our Spiritual body to receive a mortal body for a trial period.
Our progression has brought us to this moment and all will continue to progress through the eternities, excepting for those who choose Lucifer and follow him to outer darkness and regress back to their state as the intelligence they were in the beginning.

This sounds eerily like the idea of karma that birthed the caste system. People who were born to a lower caste deserved to be mistreated because they did something wrong in a previous life.

Here, Janadele is telling us that it is morally right for her to hate and demonize gays because they somehow previously chose Lucifer and that made them gay.
 
As mentioned earlier in this thread:
The elements are eternal. All that exists has always existed without a beginning.
Intelligence, the light of truth, was not created nor made.
One who organises materials in a completely new way, by organising the existing matter available, is a creator.
The creation was twofold—first Spiritual, secondly temporal.
Our intelligence was born into a Spiritual body through our Heavenly parents. This Spiritual body grew to maturity, as each of us reached a different stage of knowledge and elevated intelligence.
We were then each given the choice to further progress by choosing to come to this earth in order for our Spiritual body to receive a mortal body for a trial period.
Our progression has brought us to this moment and all will continue to progress through the eternities, excepting for those who choose Lucifer and follow him to outer darkness and regress back to their state as the intelligence they were in the beginning.
Please stop parroting bollocks.
 
So when the LDS banned African Americans from the priest hood, that wasn't immoral?

Based on the standards of the day when it happened, it wasn't considered particularly immoral. Based on the standards of today, absolutely.

When the LDS supported polygamy, that wasn't immoral?

Ironically, based on the standards of the day when it happened, it was absolutely immoral. Based on the standards of today, not really (what consenting adults do...).
 
It's the same discussion Janadele has had on other forums. It follows the same pattern, going nowhere for a bit before doubling back on itself. For whatever reason, she gets off on it, which is fine...but this thread is starting to repeat itself. Is it really worth it? She's not going to do anything differently.

Just sayin'. :)

There is a deeper issue here.

As evidenced by the anachronisms in the BoM, and the outright fraud of the BoA, and as demonstrated by myriad other issues, the LDS hierarchy will unhesitatingly make claims to support their pre-chosen positions, and assert the rightness (even the revealed holiness) of all claims said to be supported so, even if the claims are demonstrably objectively untrue. The greater good obviates the need for strict factuality.

As evidenced by the behavior of some individuals, individual LDS will also unhesitatingly justify their own opinions and behaviours with claims that purport to buttress their own prejudices, and assert the rightness of the position said to be so supported even when the claims are demonstrably objectively untrue. The greater good justifies playing fast and loose with objective truth.

Thus, for instance,the assertion that, at the end of time, it will be demonstrated that we have been wrong about history, or about our own lack of belief in 'gods', or any one of a number of issues...supported by objectively untrue takes on history and philosophy.

Thus, for instance, the assertion that an individual's distaste and disgust may, in the service of "greater good", be properly supported by resort to horrifying anecdote...even when the anecdotes are demonstrably false fabrications and distortions.

Sincerity, and the "greater good" are more important than honesty and objective reality.

It is important to realize that this is not an LDS-specific problem, but may, in fact, be one more impeachment of organized religiosity in general...as the hierarchy, so the members.
 
Homosexual activity is against Eternal Law and the reasons for our mortal existence.

What's the reasons for our mortal existence, and what if disagree with it ?

Better yet, what if I don't care about the Eternal Law, and want to form my own society away from it ? Do I have this freedom ?
 
It is yourselves who have the hate within you which you attribute to others who do not follow your path of retrogression.

Condemnation of people based on what they are is bigotry, whether you like it or not. The definitions of words do not change because you don't like them.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not support evil and immorality.

I don't recognise your authority to determine what is evil.
 
I don't recognise your authority to determine what is evil.
It's kinda worse than that. Janadele thinks YOU are evil by dint of disagreeing with her, and you and I should be banished from this thread for having the temerity to hold a different opinion.

Religious nazism forever. If you disagree, you will swiftly find yourself on an eastbound cattle truck.
 
It's kinda worse than that. Janadele thinks YOU are evil by dint of disagreeing with her, and you and I should be banished from this thread for having the temerity to hold a different opinion.

Religious nazism forever. If you disagree, you will swiftly find yourself on an eastbound cattle truck.

"We're gonna need a bigger truck..."
 
Then what are the odds that the only text of the BoA would be owned by a carnival barker who just happened to be passing by.

Could Abraham even write Egyptian?

That's probably the easiest part to explain away if you're willing to grant divine intervention. GodDidIt.
 
Is there some religious forum where people who hold opposing beliefs based upon demonstrable gibberish just joust with endless canonical quotes for all eternity?
Is that hell?

Can we have a definition of what's anti-Mormon and what's agreeable to dispute about the LDS please, Janadele?
 
We will always be the same gender, which will always be the gender of our Spirit and our Intelligence also.

And yet LDS doctrine is that your gender is determined at birth. Is Janadele intentionally defying LDS doctrine or is she merely ignorant of it?

So when the LDS banned African Americans from the priest hood, that wasn't immoral?
When the LDS supported polygamy, that wasn't immoral?

She has already denied that polygamy was ever endorsed by the LDS. She has also attributed God changing his mind about blacks in 1978 to society being "ready" for another revelation from God.

20 years from now, her grandchildren will be talking about how the LDS Church didn't really "change" it's stance on gays, but that it was "revealed" to the prophet that God had decided LDS Mormons were "ready" to learn that being gay was fine. I suspect it will happen when the current Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has passed on and a new generation, desperate to remain even vaguely relevant, will take the helm.

Naturally, Janadele will deny such a thing is possible, but I suspect most LDS Mormons thought the same thing about African-American LDS priests in the 1950's.
 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not support evil and immorality.


Ah, but it does. Its prophets have been deceived by Satan regarding hatred and oppression of gays, just as they were in recent eras regarding the "accursedness" of black people and the acceptance of the immoral polygamy culture (which might have been okay had it been just people's free choices of whom to love, but unfortunately also involved coercion, statutory rape, and the deliberate impoverishment of male children to eliminate competition for the teenage girls).

You can look at other occasions where people who believed themselves moral leaders at the time can now be clearly seen, in retrospect, to have been on Satan's side, whipping up hatred and intolerance in God's name taken in vain. The Crusaders, the Inquisitions, the Old World anti-semites, the righteous pro-slavery preachers in the time of the abolitionists, the segregationists in the civil rights era.

The devil's tricky, though, right? As Matthew 4 tells it, he even tried to tempt Jesus into accepting rulership over the entire world. (Interesting how LDS doctrine one-ups that temptation and offers, to the highest elite, rulership over their own entire universe. Very interesting.) There's always scripture that seems to support whatever temptation to hatred and persecution (infidels, heretics, Jews, slaves, blacks... or gays) Satan is pulling out of his bag of tricks this year. It can get very confusing.

So here's a solution that has always worked. Ask yourself, which side is doing harm? Are gays doing harm by loving one another and marrying one another, or is the harm coming from the people trying to prevent that?

And, very importantly, the harm in question can't be vague invisible spiritual harm. That doesn't count. It didn't count for Jesus; he said so in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Samaritans at the time were a variant sect of Judaism, with slightly different beliefs than those of the Jews Jesus was preaching to. Accordingly, the "mainstream" Jews regarded the Samaritans as worthy of contempt because of all the spiritual harm they were supposedly doing by practicing different beliefs. Jesus's teaching was to disregard all that; the Samaritan in the fable was doing good in the world in the present and that was, and is, what counts. Those who would bloody their neighbor's nose out of concern for his soul are doing wrong. The state of his soul is up to God, and way beyond the reach of your fists or your bigotry.

Satan is very big on this idea of invisible spiritual harm. It's one of his best tricks. It can lead even a prophet into claiming nonsense like "male and female are eternal" when the Bible clearly says that there is no male or female in heaven, and no husbands and wives in the kingdom of Christ. Old Scratch laughs and laughs at the real-world harm (such as, lifelong partners denied one another's company when one of them is ill or dying in a hospital, or simply the spectacle of intolerance and violence of neighbor against neighbor provoked by the supposed prophets of a loving and forgiving God) that his simple trick invariably leads to when used on the wrathful, the pridefully pious, the uncharitable.

That is how the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (and, to be fair, many other churches) support evil and immorality, even though they and their members often did not intend to. It's a good thing for you that God is loving and forgiving.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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