Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

PIP never liked her "reporting" as she was an early adopter of "Foxy Knoxy" and other pejorative descriptions. She did a bad job of reporting and along with CD was first to publish.

The PGP loved her until she started not being pure PG. They don't appreciate any questioning about guilt. It could also be that her lack of education makes it harder to criticize CD while supporting barbie.

The SBS Dateline show made her look like an alcohol fueled ditz.

Even though Barbie Nadeau clings to the, "There's something Knox knows that she's not telling us," silliness at the end of the day she still thinks the prosecution never proved anything.

As mentioned before, on CNN the night of the 2009 conviction, Nadeau's take on this (as she said) was, "The prosecution case was weak, but the defence case was even weaker. This could very well be overturned at appeal." Now she is saying that the Florence court will more than likely also overturn the Massei conviction.

Is this a "stand" she has taken so as to appear "objective" because no one likes her?

 

[RandyN]

Did any of you actually watch the whole Ch 5 show? The climb was simple. The guy did it with the new top bars and also without the top bars...He opened the shutters without use of the top bars. Then he put his elbows on the ledge and discussed how easy it would be to open the shutters, break out the window and climb inside. The show was not perfect...in the window breaking reproduction they failed to use inner shutters but the end result and conclusion would have been little different.

This entry site for RG is not something that is even debatable. It is clear and conclusive. The only reason anyone silly enough to argue against it has already bought into all the illogical evidence used by police and prosecutor to create a "staged break-in" BTW remember that they used a full year to concoct and refine the argument before presenting it in court. And it is still a stupid theory that is backed only by recollections...proof? No pics of any glass on top of anything. No data to prove glass distribution evidence from a staging. The illogical ignoring of evidence of no burglary without consideration that the burglary had quickly developed into the unexpected murder.

What Ch 5 showed was that in general the case as per the prosecution is highly suspect and certainly makes the evidence highly doubtful. Had a real investigative team done a study and tests with more knowledgeable collaborators then there would have been more than 5 questions asked and answered.

Here is a link to an expert on false memories...note the Italy connection, planted memories, etc...its rather long but worth the watch.

http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_...ium=email&utm_content=talk_of_the_week_button

 

[codyjuneau]

The inner shutters are a part of the windows, their hinges and latches are on the moving part of the windows so don't need to be manipulated separately. Neither inner shutter was latched at the time the scene was investigated and the shutter was not latched at the time the rock was thrown through because there is no damage to the latch.
Closing the outer shutters provides neither security nor privacy because they can't be latched and the inner shutters provide complete privacy. Where the outer shutters would be used would be to let air through while providing some privacy and limiting direct sunlight which would be usefull in the summer or if a burgler wanted to hide the fact that the window glass was broken.

.
Thanks for the clarification Danno. So the moving window part was latched, but the inner shutters were not latched to the moving window part. That fits the rock through the window break in scenario perfectly IMO.
.

 

[acbytesla]

Impossible to understand this post as formatted.

If you insist on calling me wrong please provide proof. Show a picture of someone reaching the closed shutter from the porch. The defense were at the cottage and could have shown how easy it would have been but didn't.

Sorry, I reformatted it, refresh that page. I don't really need to show someone reaching the shutter from the porch. The shutters can be reached during the climb. You can easily grab the shutters while standing on the grate from below.

 

[Dan O.]

If you insist on calling me wrong please provide proof. Show a picture of someone reaching the closed shutter from the porch. The defense were at the cottage and could have shown how easy it would have been but didn't.

The defense only needs to show that access is possible. The prosecution defined the path early by saying that it was the climb up that couldn't be done. The defense lawyer took the impromptu challenge while they were inspecting the cottage and just climbed up. That should have ended the controversy.

Since there is still talk of this climb being too difficult, 5 Channel attacked it directly by having someone climb it again.

This is what the narrator is saying at the beginning of that clip:

"And, there's another issue with this window. It's 3.5 meters above the ground. Even if it was broken from the outside, could a single person climb up to it to enter the flat?"

Even if they thought about other paths to access that window, their climbers motion reaching it from the ground is so fluid that I doubt the other path would play as well.

Maybe they have outtakes that we will see later.

 

[Grinder]

Sorry, I reformatted it, refresh that page. I don't really need to show someone reaching the shutter from the porch. The shutters can be reached during the climb. You can easily grab the shutters while standing on the grate from below.

Standing on the grate with no hand hold and at the same time would not be that easy. Look at the defense lawyer pics. If they were not latched or jammed shut it would be easier.

The shutters were open. Filomena didn't close them in her rush.

The defense only needs to show that access is possible. The prosecution defined the path early by saying that it was the climb up that couldn't be done. The defense lawyer took the impromptu challenge while they were inspecting the cottage and just climbed up. That should have ended the controversy.

I'm surprised by this comment. The defense need prove nothing. By some chance do you have the video of the lawyer climbing?

Since there is still talk of this climb being too difficult, 5 Channel attacked it directly by having someone climb it again.

Yes a rock climbing expert. Too bad they didn't just use a 5' 10" basketball player.

Even if they thought about other paths to access that window, their climbers motion reaching it from the ground is so fluid that I doubt the other path would play as well.

The move he made is a practiced rock climbing one. I doubt Rudy would have climbed that way. Put a short ladder straight up against a wall and walk up with no hand holds, not that easy.

After reviewing the show some more, I concede that Rudy could have reached the shutter from the porch area by grabbing the wall with his right hand and the shutter with his left.

I still believe the shutters were not closed that afternoon.

 

[RWVBWL]

Burglary tools?

With all due respect Grinder, The shutters even latched do not present that much of an obstacle. Your assuming that Rudy has no tools like a small pinch bar, a screw driver with a long handle, even a slim jim for getting into a car could be used to unlatched some shutters. What's more, I'm sure the shutters that they could easily be ripped from their hinges.

I have no idea how professional Rudy is at breaking into homes. There is no way to make for us to make that judgement. That said, Rudy was lithe and strong. You simply cannot make the judgement that if the the shutters were closed a burglar wouldn't have still chosen that window as a point of entry.

Good point, ACbyTesla,
I too usually forget that Guede was busted with that small hammer at a probable business robbery just days before Miss Kercher was murdered.

From the Massei-Cristiani Report:

Witness Maria Antonietta Salvadori Del Prato Titone, at the hearing of 6-27-2009, reported that on the morning of Saturday, October 27, 2007, as she entered the nursery [asilo] located on Via Plinio 16 in Milan, of which she was the director, she noticed that a person she did not know — subsequently identified as Rudy Guede — was leaving from her own office. There were no signs of forced entry. Some small change was missing from the box where money was kept. Rudy Guede had a knapsack [zaino] inside of which he was carrying a computer. The police, who were called immediately, made him reveal the backpack [zainetto] in which there was a long kitchen-knife of approximately 40 centimeters. She recalled that there were other objects in the sack [zaino]: a set of keys, a small women’s gold watch, a small hammer of the sort found in buses for breaking the windows. The police told her that the computer had been stolen in Perugia, from a lawyer’s office [studio legale]. The witness explained that she was accompanied by her six-year-old son, a locksmith [fabbro] who was to perform work, and an assistant [rappresentante] [note: or possibly "salesman"]. Rudy Guede justified his presence by saying that he had requested, at Milan central station — where he may have spent the night and where he found out about this nursery — back payment of 50.00 euros from the witness herself. The witness explained that the knife was in the kitchen; it was not locked and Rudy Guede could have taken it from that location.

But how did Guede get inside the school?
Dude must have some kinda tricks, err, tools, up his sleeve...

 

[codyjuneau]

.......

I still believe the shutters were not closed that afternoon.

.
Me too.

On another topic, when I look at Filomena's bedroom, how little storage she had for the amount of clothes, boxes, bags, shoes, etc., it is obvious she stored many things on the floor.

I wonder where she stored her dirty laundry before it got washed? I don't see a laundry hamper. Did she maybe just throw it in a pile on the floor?
.

 

[Machiavelli]

Machiavelli - do either you or Andrea Vogt side with the prosecution in the "seismologists failed to predict an earthquake" conviction?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=italy-abruzzo-earthquake-scientist-trial

This information is false. The seismologists were never accused of "having failed to predict an earthquake".
They were accused of lying to the press and of organizing and taking part to a bogus meeting of a scientific comittee, and of signing a report which they didn't write (was written by politicians under the direction of Mr. Bertolaso).

 

[Supernaut]

PIP never liked her "reporting" as she was an early adopter of "Foxy Knoxy" and other pejorative descriptions. She did a bad job of reporting and along with CD was first to publish.

The PGP loved her until she started not being pure PG. They don't appreciate any questioning about guilt. It could also be that her lack of education makes it harder to criticize CD while supporting barbie.

The SBS Dateline show made her look like an alcohol [and tranquiliser] fueled ditz.

Sue me, ditz!

 

[Machiavelli]

Lol...yes Mario became interested when Mignini tossed him in jail illegally. What was the result of that trial on the accusation made by Mignini against Mario? Remind us.

(...)

Good, I'll remind you. He has just been sent to trial.
Btw, he is a repeated previous offender.

 

[Machiavelli]

Is it also called propaganda when the prosecution gives crime scene photos to the press? Or do you believe the prosecution have more rights to influence public opinion than the defense does? Do the media themselves constitute mafious and criminal means?

I think it's simply utterly foolish, beyond any sense of reality, to belive the prosecution gave crime scenes to the press.
It is obviously also an unfounded wild claim.
It would be also a complete nonsense to do so, because it doesn't offer absolutely any legal advantage. It would be even more nonsense to publish them in another country, on newspapers which the Perugians will never read.

Yes, the mainstream media themselves are favourite means used by mafia powers and they play a major role in enforcing mafious methods.

PS: Personally, I have an (umproven) suspicion about the person who sold them for money, since a whole set of crime scene room pictures was sold to a UK press photo agency. It was then a British tabloid who bought them and 'picked' the photo they wanted, just to make a selling story.
There was obviously no 'prosecution leaking a picture to influence public opinion'.

 

[Supernaut]

More from the ditz Barbie:

Because this is a civil case, there is no legal reason to deny extradition if it is requested, but Knox’s lawyers would surely fight to keep her in the United States if she is ultimately convicted, perhaps trying to reach an agreement with Italy that she could serve any eventual sentence for the murder in an American jail.

That is embarrassing. It's a criminal trial.

But you can bet she will be a far more present entity in the coverage of this appellate trial than any of her previous cases because she can defend herself in the court of public opinion.

Her previous cases?

This woman couldn't write (or think) straight if her life depended on it.

Bye-bye, Daily Beast.

 

[Machiavelli]

He lies about the recording...once he says "we forgot to push record" another time he says "we could not afford" ...stop dont bother with your pitiful excuse about two separate interrogations the witness and the suspect...he is simply caught lying. (...)

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 12.

 

[Supernaut]

Even though Barbie Nadeau clings to the, "There's something Knox knows that she's not telling us," silliness at the end of the day she still thinks the prosecution never proved anything.

As mentioned before, on CNN the night of the 2009 conviction, Nadeau's take on this (as she said) was, "The prosecution case was weak, but the defence case was even weaker. This could very well be overturned at appeal." Now she is saying that the Florence court will more than likely also overturn the Massei conviction.

Is this a "stand" she has taken so as to appear "objective" because no one likes her?

Don't worry about Bill's heartless comments, Barbie - SOME people still like you. I think.

 

[Supernaut]

Good, I'll remind you. He has just been sent to trial.
Btw, he is a repeated previous offender.

If Mignini and his cronies are out to get Spezi, that's good enough for me - I like him.

He seems to be a terrier of a man.

The Monster of Florence is worth anyone's time to read - it's excellent.

 

[Bill Williams]

He lies about the recording...once he says "we forgot to push record" another time he says "we could not afford" ...stop dont bother with your pitiful excuse about two separate interrogations the witness and the suspect...he is simply caught lying. (...)

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Moderated content removed.

Machiavelli - you and Andrea Vogt would do better to simply provide the exculpatory evidence yourself. You post, and Ms. Vogt's writings, add nothing to the claim RandyN makes.

So as it is, his claim stands. I mean, it's not as if you, or Ms. Vogt, wish to prove anything about Ms. Knox or Mr. Sollecito. Once again you agree with the ISC, for instance, that it is up to the defence to prove they did not participate in murder.

You just do not like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Please ask Ms. Vogt what that idiom refers to.

 

[Bill Williams]

Even though Barbie Nadeau clings to the, "There's something Knox knows that she's not telling us," silliness at the end of the day she still thinks the prosecution never proved anything.

As mentioned before, on CNN the night of the 2009 conviction, Nadeau's take on this (as she said) was, "The prosecution case was weak, but the defence case was even weaker. This could very well be overturned at appeal." Now she is saying that the Florence court will more than likely also overturn the Massei conviction.

Is this a "stand" she has taken so as to appear "objective" because no one likes her?

Don't worry about Bill's heartless comments, Barbie - SOME people still like you. I think.

I think she's positioning herself to be able to say, "I told you so," no matter what the Florence court decides.

Does that mean I like her? That's an entirely different question. Ask me what I think about Machiavelli and Ms. Vogt!?

 

[Bill Williams]

This information is false. The seismologists were never accused of "having failed to predict an earthquake".
They were accused of lying to the press and of organizing and taking part to a bogus meeting of a scientific comittee, and of signing a report which they didn't write (was written by politicians under the direction of Mr. Bertolaso).

What is your and Ms. Vogt's position on this - that Scientific American is part of a Masonic conspiracy!?

 

[Supernaut]

I think she's positioning herself to be able to say, "I told you so," no matter what the Florence court decides.

Does that mean I like her? That's an entirely different question. Ask me what I think about Machiavelli and Ms. Vogt!?

Joking aside, more than a few people, among them and not least the thoughtless, attention-seeking, money-grubbing Barbie Latza Nadeau, who elected themselves to assist in this GROTESQUE persecution deserve what they have coming.

It'll be for their own good, ultimately.