Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Grinder said:
Watch it again. Keep in mind that Rudy couldn't know from the outside that the shutter wasn't latched. If the shutters were pulled closed it would necessitate, at a minimum, a climb up to open them. Then he would need to go back down and up to the parking area to throw the rock.

I'm convinced that Mignini was able to get Filomena to remember she closed them.

It just doesn't make any sense that Rudy would know that the shutters wouldn't latch. It wouldn't make any sense for a burglar to make that climb to test them. That climb is doable but not easy. The new grill made it easier. While the window grate is a ladder there are no higher cross pieces to hold on to when the feet get above the bottom cross pieces.
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I think you are over thinking this Grinder.
It only took a a moment to climb up there. I don't think a burglar would find the shutters to be really much of an obstacle. I can easily imagine a burglar pulling the shutters open and even opening an unlatched window or just smashing the window while being on the wall. I remember watching a tv show about how burglars easily break into homes. In the show, they would easily climb walls and kick in doors and windows. Most locked doors and windows barely slow them down.
 
(this dup wasn't here when I refreshed the thread. I suspect mod intervention)
 
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Grinder said:
Watch it again. Keep in mind that Rudy couldn't know from the outside that the shutter wasn't latched. If the shutters were pulled closed it would necessitate, at a minimum, a climb up to open them. Then he would need to go back down and up to the parking area to throw the rock.
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Sorry Grinder, you are simply wrong on every point.

1. Rudy could have seen that the shutter wasn't pulled fully closed when he first visited the cottage that evening.

2. Rudy doesn't need to climb up to open the shutter. He can simply reach out from the edge of the porch and pull the shutter open. But wait, is that a mop handle in the basket at the front of the porch? That stick would allow him to reach the shutter without even sliding out behind the planter.

3. And of course, if he doesn't have to climb up to open the shutter he doesn't have to clime down and back up to the parking area to throw the rock.


I'm convinced that Mignini was able to get Filomena to remember she closed them.
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I'm convinced that Mignini is skilled at getting people to remember what he wants them to remember, whether it happened or not.


It just doesn't make any sense that Rudy would know that the shutters wouldn't latch. It wouldn't make any sense for a burglar to make that climb to test them. That climb is doable but not easy. The new grill made it easier. While the window grate is a ladder there are no higher cross pieces to hold on to when the feet get above the bottom cross pieces.
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You may not recognize how latches work but this was Rudy's job. He would know
the type of latch that would be on a shutter of this type and he would know that if the shutter is not pulled flush it won't latch.

The climb is easy. But not necessary. It's a short step from the porch to the top bar of the lower window.
 
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Dan O. said:
1. Rudy could have seen that the shutter wasn't pulled fully closed when he first visited the cottage that evening.
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Even if it wasn't closed all the way he wouldn't known it wasn't secured. If the shutters were shut no burglar would have picked that window. Also, no stager would have picked that window. The shutters were open, period.

2. Rudy doesn't need to climb up to open the shutter. He can simply reach out from the edge of the porch and pull the shutter open. But wait, is that a mop handle in the basket at the front of the porch? That stick would allow him to reach the shutter without even sliding out behind the planter.[/quote]

No he could reach from the porch. That requires reaching the shutter edge not just the edge of the window frame. You're just wrong about that distance.

3. And of course, if he doesn't have to climb up to open the shutter he doesn't have to clime down and back up to the parking area to throw the rock.
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But he would have to because you are wrong about the reach to the window. If it was sooooo easy why didn't they have the climber just step over?


I'm convinced that Mignini is skilled at getting people to remember what he wants them to remember, whether it happened or not.
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On that you are correct and he was able to get Filomena to remember that she had closed the shutters which in her hurry to get out of the cottage she didn't do.

It would be very difficult to spring up as the climber did if there were closed shutters. He springs up and grabs the bars because one can't just walk up the lower window grate easily.


You may not recognize how latches work but this was Rudy's job. He would know the type of latch that would be on a shutter of this type and he would know that if the shutter is not pulled flush it won't latch.

The climb is easy. But not necessary. It's a short step from the porch to the top bar of the lower window.
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It is not a short step no matter how often and for how long you maintain it. I think you are overstating his expertise and he would know if the latch had been jerry-rigged.

Watch it. There is no way to step from the porch to the lower window grate,
 
Grinder said:
Even if it wasn't closed all the way he wouldn't known it wasn't secured. If the shutters were shut no burglar would have picked that window. Also, no stager would have picked that window. The shutters were open, period.
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Are you claiming to be an expert in home burglery now? This is what Rudy does to pay the rent. He's going to know how windows latch.

It's not necessary for the shutter to be open to make your point. A burgler on the outside sees the outside shutter which was either open or ajar. A stager on the inside sees the window and inner shutter which were closed.


No he could reach from the porch. That requires reaching the shutter edge not just the edge of the window frame. You're just wrong about that distance.
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The distance from the corner of the house to the near edge of the window is 1.1 meters. The pair of green shutters are only .78 meters wide. The necessary reach from the edge of the house to the center of the window is therefore 1.49 meters. A very easy reach.

If you want to present a different set of numbers, let's see your work.


But he would have to because you are wrong about the reach to the window. If it was sooooo easy why didn't they have the climber just step over?
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Probably because they wrote the script before seeing the house. It only proves that they didn't read this thread beforehand and weren't allowed to improvise at the scene.
 
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Grinder said:
It is not a short step no matter how often and for how long you maintain it. I think you are overstating his expertise and he would know if the latch had been jerry-rigged.

Watch it. There is no way to step from the porch to the lower window grate,
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It's an easily manageable step. I measured out the distance and tried it myself. Same for reaching the latch mechanism while standing on the top bar of the lower window. But I noticed something in that video. The climber never steps on the bars of the lower window. He goes straight from the lower sill to the top of the lower window casement. I knew there was a small shelf there but couldn't tell if there was enough for a toehold. With that extra step it's not even a streatch to reach the window latch.
 
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To close the outside shutters, Filomena would have had to open up both windows, reach out and swing both outside shutters around to close them, then re-close both windows. There would be even more steps if she had to open and re-close the inside shutters as well. Also, if the inside shutters were closed, it would not even be apparent whether the outside shutters were open or closed. Because Filomena was in a hurry I suspect she did not bother closing the outside shutters.

Regardless, Rudy could have easily tested to see if they were latched or not. It is common practice for burglars to test doors and windows to see if they are unlocked.
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I am discussing this case with someone and wonder if anyone can tell me when Amanda Knox OFFICIALLY became a suspect, and at what time in the interrogations. Skimming through her book I find it hard to see when she knew the tide had turned, officially.
 
toto said:
I am discussing this case with someone and wonder if anyone can tell me when Amanda Knox OFFICIALLY became a suspect, and at what time in the interrogations. Skimming through her book I find it hard to see when she knew the tide had turned, officially.
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From her perspective, probably when they took her to jail. Sadly.
 
RoseMontague said:
From her perspective, probably when they took her to jail. Sadly.
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Yes, thanks. But I am wondering when the police/prosecution put the time (or day) I know she was told she was told she was formally under investigation for the murder in the middle of her second day as a prisoner.
 
codyjuneau said:
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To close the outside shutters, Filomena would have had to open up both windows, reach out and swing both outside shutters around to close them, then re-close both windows. There would be even more steps if she had to open and re-close the inside shutters as well. Also, if the inside shutters were closed, it would not even be apparent whether the outside shutters were open or closed. Because Filomena was in a hurry I suspect she did not bother closing the outside shutters.
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The inner shutters are a part of the windows, their hinges and latches are on the moving part of the windows so don't need to be manipulated separately. Neither inner shutter was latched at the time the scene was investigated and the shutter was not latched at the time the rock was thrown through because there is no damage to the latch.

Closing the outer shutters provides neither security nor privacy because they can't be latched and the inner shutters provide complete privacy. Where the outer shutters would be used would be to let air through while providing some privacy and limiting direct sunlight which would be usefull in the summer or if a burgler wanted to hide the fact that the window glass was broken.
 
The whole break in news isnt really news. I've seen photo's that show (from the bottom) that it's not much of a climb on either Bruce's site or FOA cant remember exactly where.

Whats disturbing is that certain Journalist always show angles that make it look a lot harder than it is to sell their story. I think they should be called out for their role in ,causing these two to sit in prison for Rudy's crime while Merideth's family awaits closure they dont get so others can profit!!!

A good defense team or PR campaign should have drove this point home.It doesnt seem like rocket science to me?
 
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GreyFox said:
The whole break in news isnt really news. I've seen photo's that show (from the bottom) that it's not much of a climb on either Bruce's site or FOA cant remember exactly where.

Whats disturbing is that certain Journalist always show angles that make it look a lot harder than it is to sell their story. I think they should be called out for their role in ,causing these two to sit in prison for Rudy's crime while Merideth's family awaits closure they dont get so others can profit!!!

A good defense team or PR campaign should have drove this point home.It doesnt seem like rocket science to me?
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Yes, something like this should have been done a long time ago. You can make that climb look easy or hard with your choice of pictures but the video is hard to argue with unless you are in full denial, imo.
 
The rock climber uses a single move to reach the sill of the window, that obviously wasn't as wide with shutters closed on Nov.1 and even less so if they weren't closed all the way, rather than walking up the window "ladder". Walking up that ladder wouldn't be that easy because there are no hand holds. Watch the move the guy makes.

I never believed the shutters were closed and that Mignini was able to get Filomena to say so for obvious purposes.

Dan, I think the shutters are .84 meters wide ;) -just kidding. I believe reaching out from the edge of the porch to the shutters would be too far but not worth building my own set. I think it is telling that no one has made the contention for defense or even this show.

I will continue to believe that the shutters were open if that window was selected for a real break-in or a staged one. I believe that the rock was thrown from the parking area where the climber went down before his window climb.

I'm surprised by the resistance to accepting that Filomena didn't close the shutters as she raced to the party.
 
From barbie The high court is clearly not convinced that Guede acted alone, and in their lengthy reasoning wrote that the defense teams did not prove that more than one person did not kill Kercher.

Looks like the beast is letting barbie write in crayon without editing.
 
Why does everyone here seem to think Filomena was in such a hurry that morning? Apparently she wrapped a present that Amanda helped with and was going to a birthday party, why the hurry?
 
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Sherlock Holmes said:
Why does everyone here seem to think Filomena was in such a hurry that morning? Apparently she wrapped a present that Amanda helped with and was going to a birthday party, why the hurry?
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She asked Amanda to wrap the present because she was running late. Not help but wrap and write the birthday message. She was running late.

From Massei - November 1, 2007, before leaving the house to go with her fiancé, she had asked Amanda to help her wrap a present. She had also met Amanda’s boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, on October 26, the day immediately after Amanda and Raffaele had met.

From Follain Just after 12:30 p.m. , Filomena returned to the cottage with her boyfriend....for a quick half hour to get changed before hurrying out again...asked Amanda to wrap up the birthday present...Filomena also asked her to write a birthday message

Need more?
 
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