Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Dan O.]

BTW, what happened to Briars? I had just asked him a couple of specific questions about what he had posted and he disappeared again. This seems to be a predictable behavior which I mentioned before. It's a good thing that I saved those questions in his permanent file so I can repost them when he gets back.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda Knox is a trivial creature; she has no role but a passive one in this. She has a manipulative attitude, but she was manipulated herself (just as always happend to manipulators; this is how it works).
Amanda's involvement was just obvious; her lies are obvious; the involvement of multiple perpetrators in the murder was obvious. Evidence is obvious. Also the honesty of investigators was obvious, as well as the absurdity of your conspiracy theories, and the falsehood of your claims (like the false claim that Stefanoni refused to disclose evidence, the absurdity about HIV test, the Satanic rite, the allegation of law vio lations, the false media reports and your reliance of criminals like Spezi and Sfarzo (or things told by idiots like Preston) and so on... ).
Your purpose is to "save" the life of a person - or anyway an interest - which you care about for some reason; but your operation to achieve that is like the dffusion an anti-semitic libel campaign or like the anti-Dreyfuss or anti-Mossadeq campaigns.
Because the truth about facts is evident and most obvious to me, it is a matter of perception about reality. Your claims about people are false because they are ansurd and false not because of who Knox or Sollecito are. Amanda Knox has nothing to do with that.

Machiavelli - you forgot a few things. Do we have to add things that you forget?

You forgot....... The Masonic Conspiracy!

You forgot....... that through analyzing Knox's writings she could "choose" not to sleep and remain functional.

You forgot....... that between you and Andrea Vogt, that is the sum total of the PR Campaign to save Mignini.

 

[Grinder]

Yeah, and 15 people can fit into a phone booth. I have no doubt that it would be possible for 4 people to to be in that room at one time. I also don't doubt that 3 people could murder one person in that room. What I do doubt is the ability of 4 people to commit this murder in that room without leaving more definitive evidence of 3 people killing someone.

Tesla you have conflated two points. The room has plenty of space for four people to be in there. The pictures show it and the FOA argument that the room is too small for that is just not true.

The second point about leaving evidence (Locard in memory of Anglo ) was part of my point to which you responded. I have agreed with that point for years, before Bertha was agleam in anyone's eye.

If the murder occurred as the prosecution usually contends, then it stretches credulity beyond the breaking point that no DNA, blood, hair or anything from Amanda or RAf was found on Meredith. This was an issue the show could have done a better job on.

I wish they had spent more time comparing "footprints" from luminol with reference prints and had emphasized that the prints need to match to be viable evidence. They probably could have taken reference prints from a few crew members and showed that their prints too were compatible.

A demonstration of the bathmat print being made with a foot dripping of bloody water on that type of material would have shown how much bleeding of the print could have occurred.

I was also impressed by how many windows face the cottage from the apartments. If there was a scream that Nara could possibly hear, it should have been heard by many others especially if it was before 10:30. Which it was.

 

[acbytesla]

I think you are writing on forums claiming that a number people (possibly a big number) committed crimes or abuses.
Now, here there are also posters (acbtesla, RandyN etc.) who extend their accusation to really big numbers of people, as they say like that all Italians are corrupt, or that Italy is rotten as a culture or as a state, etc.

In fact Machiavelli, I haven't said anything even close to this. I have always judge people as people. Not black or white, Asian or Indian, Jewish or Gentile...etc..etc. etc.

I do believe your system is broken with many corrupt or stupid characters involved. Mignini is just one, as is the head of your Supreme Court who believes that the US government brought down or imploded the World Trade Center. It is your courts that convicted seismologists for failing to predict an earthquake. Your courts that just imprisoned crew members on the Costa Concordia. I also think you are corrupted. I think you are intellectually dishonest. I come to that judgement by way of the obfuscation in your arguments.

That is a far cry from saying that all of Italy is dishonest. I have nothing against the Italian people, I like the food, I like the wine, I like the shoes. I have owned 4 different Italian motorcycles over the years and a long time ago, I owned a Fiat convertible. Can't say it was really well made, but I sure enjoyed driving it.

I strongly believe your judicial and penal system is in need of significant reform. It's not good for your people, your economy or your status in the world.

 

[codyjuneau]

Gee, another conspiracy, this time accusing members here of criminal acts and a conspiracy in organizing judicial corruption. How many conspiracies are we up to now, Mach.

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He's on to us Rose. Wait until he see what happens next!
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[acbytesla]

Tesla you have conflated two points. The room has plenty of space for four people to be in there. The pictures show it and the FOA argument that the room is too small for that is just not true.

The second point about leaving evidence (Locard in memory of Anglo ) was part of my point to which you responded. I have agreed with that point for years, before Bertha was agleam in anyone's eye.

With all respect Grinder, I don't think I'm conflating anything.

The documentary showed the room without furniture including the desk, the bed and the wardrobe. The furniture alone takes up half the room.

Does that prevent four people from being in that room? No...but I think the room is definitely crowded for 4 people. Not much room to maneuver, footprints on top of footprints, blood would have been everywhere and there would be voids in the blood splatter and footprints that would have been smudged by the others.

We really aren't disagreeing with each other. I think the evidence demonstrates that 4 people WEREN'T in that room during this murder.

 

[Bill Williams]

With all respect Grinder, I don't think I'm conflating anything.

The documentary showed the room without furniture including the desk, the bed and the wardrobe. The furniture alone takes up half the room.

Does that prevent four people from being in that room? No...but I think the room is definitely crowded for 4 people. Not much room to maneuver, footprints on top of footprints, blood would have been everywhere and there would be voids in the blood splatter and footprints that would have been smudged by the others.

We really aren't disagreeing with each other. I think the evidence demonstrates that 4 people WEREN'T in that room during this murder.

It's laughable when someone says that while being possible that a lone attacker had done this, that it is far easier for 3 people to have subdued the poor victim.

There's a "well, duh!!!!" comment. It's when the evidence demonstrates that 4 people were not in that room that the issue is not which scenario would subdue someone more easily....

.... it's, is a lone attacker scenario possible? The answer to that is yes. Even Massei conceded that.

 

[codyjuneau]

It's laughable when someone says that while being possible that a lone attacker had done this, that it is far easier for 3 people to have subdued the poor victim.

There's a "well, duh!!!!" comment. It's when the evidence demonstrates that 4 people were not in that room that the issue is not which scenario would subdue someone more easily....

.... it's, is a lone attacker scenario possible? The answer to that is yes. Even Massei conceded that.

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I don't think Rudy originally intended to kill Meredith. The whole point of using the knife was to threaten her with overwhelming consequences if she fought back. Meredith probably submitted at first, hence not many defensive wounds on her hands. Only Rudy can tell us why he ended up taking her life anyway.
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[Mary_H]

The defence role takes place exclusively within the legal arena. When in the public arena, it's no defensive role, it's called propaganda. However you are not defending Amanda Knox, certainly not with legitimate legal means. The means by which you operate are qualified as mafious and criminal; they are focused not on seeking alleged "weaknesses" of the case but they they target people and institution through dirty propaganda, they are focused on defaming people and attacking the legitimacy of powers.

Is it also called propaganda when the prosecution gives crime scene photos to the press? Or do you believe the prosecution have more rights to influence public opinion than the defense does? Do the media themselves constitute mafious and criminal means?

By the way, we attack the illegitimacy of powers, not the legitimacy.

Moreover, bear in mind that I also consider a restricted group in the FoA as responsible of taking part in organizing a judiciary corruption.

Can you back up this claim? Your arguments would have more strength if you would provide evidence.

Indeed. And it's someone criminal. It is indeed an attack on what I consider legtitimay and sovreignity. And it is indead carried on by mafious means and with he help of criminal elements and networks.

You're like the college kid who just found out his father has affairs and his mother is an alcoholic. You just refuse to believe it. There's got to be something wrong with anyone who would attack your perfect parents that way.

By the way, it's not that original. I happens in Italy on regular basis. Civil war is not a mind obsession in Syria, it's reality; conspiracies and mafia networks are not a fantasy.

I can guarantee you nobody here is in the Mafia.

Amanda Knox is a trivial creature; she has no role but a passive one in this.

That's kind of my point.

<snip>Because the truth about facts is evident and most obvious to me, it is a matter of perception about reality. Your claims about people are false because they are ansurd and false not because of who Knox or Sollecito are. Amanda Knox has nothing to do with that.

I am glad you recognize this is a matter of perception about reality. And you are correct, it is not Knox or Sollecito's doing that all of this is obvious, absurd and false to you. That is the doing of your culture and your extremely strong resistance to seeing things differently from the way you have been socialized to see them.

 

[RoseMontague]

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He's on to us Rose. Wait until he see what happens next!
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I don't think he has a clue. This should be fun.

 

[acbytesla]

It's laughable when someone says that while being possible that a lone attacker had done this, that it is far easier for 3 people to have subdued the poor victim.

There's a "well, duh!!!!" comment. It's when the evidence demonstrates that 4 people were not in that room that the issue is not which scenario would subdue someone more easily....

.... it's, is a lone attacker scenario possible? The answer to that is yes. Even Massei conceded that.

Well, this is the essence of the entire prosecution. A bunch of "could haves" have been combined in to some kind of "must have".

• There "could have" been multiple attackers...(even though the evidence does not really point toward multiple attackers)
• The burglary "could have" been staged (even though that evidence isn't really there either)
• They "could have" conspired with Rudy, even though they really didn't know him.
• They could have killed Meredith even though there is no motive for killing her and neither have committed a violent act in their lives.

I can't believe the Italian for pursing such a piss poor case. There are some really stupid people in Perugia and Rome. Let's hope that they are a bit more sane in Florence.

 

[JREF2010]

.... it's, is a lone attacker scenario possible? The answer to that is yes. Even Massei conceded that.

Many examples of lone wolfs, I guess...

Theres some of my mind that accepts the Rudy and the guy who ran into Alessandra Formica's boyfriend at times... as I understand it Alessandra didn't think it was Rudy. I never read her testimony.

The evidence from the murder scene all points to Rudy alone, I guess...but then who knows what the Stefonani hid away and ignored.

Only Rudy knows and Maresca doesn't want him bothered by answering questions.

 

[Welshman]

Even if there was evidence of multiple attackers, why are Amanda and Raffaele, two people who did not know Guede, the only people on the face of the planet who could have committed the murder with Guede. If Amanda and Raffaele committed the murder with Guede, how do you explain the following :-

1) Amanda barely knew Guede, Raffaele did not know Guede at all and Amanda and Raffaele had only know each other six days. Was it credible that three virtual strangers would come together to commit a brutal sexual assault and murder?

2) If Amanda and Raffaele did not know Guede, had no relationship or communication with him prior to the night of the murder, how exactly did they plan and arrange to murder Meredith with Guede?

3) Was is credible that a woman would help a stranger sexually assault and murder another woman? When women help men commit sexual assaults and murder, the women have been in long term dysfuctional relationships with the man. Myra Hindley is an example of this.

4) In the period between the discovery of Meredith's body and the interrogations the phone conversations of Amanda and Raffaele were monitored where no mention of Guede was made. Is it credible that Amanda and Raffaele could go for three days without mentioning someone they had committed a brutal sexual assault and murder with?

5) When did Amanda and Raffaele commit the murder with Guede?

 

[acbytesla]

Even if there was evidence of multiple attackers, why are Amanda and Raffaele, two people who did not know Guede, the only people on the face of the planet who could have committed the murder with Guede. If Amanda and Raffaele committed the murder with Guede, how do you explain the following :-

1) Amanda barely knew Guede, Raffaele did not know Guede at all and Amanda and Raffaele had only know each other six days. Was it credible that three virtual strangers would come together to commit a brutal sexual assault and murder?

2) If Amanda and Raffaele did not know Guede, had no relationship or communication with him prior to the night of the murder, how exactly did they plan and arrange to murder Meredith with Guede?

3) Was is credible that a woman would help a stranger sexually assault and murder another woman? When women help men commit sexual assaults and murder, the women have been in long term dysfuctional relationships with the man. Myra Hindley is an example of this.

4) In the period between the discovery of Meredith's body and the interrogations the phone conversations of Amanda and Raffaele were monitored where no mention of Guede was made. Is it credible that Amanda and Raffaele could go for three days without mentioning someone they had committed a brutal sexual assault and murder with?

5) When did Amanda and Raffaele commit the murder with Guede?

Precisely, It's absurd that Amanda would help Rudy, someone she had barely even spoken to and Raffaele someone she had known for 6 days kill Meredith her roommate of 420 days. There is no motive for Amanda, no motive for Raffaele. And the idea that it was the result of a sexual motive of Amanda's is beyond absurd.

But of course, none of this really matters, since there really isn't evidence of multiple attackers...not unless the ILE is suppressing that.

 

[Grinder]

The demo climb was not convincing if the shutters had been pulled shut. As I've thought all along, I doubt they were shut and even Filomena admitted she hadn't latched them. She only became surer of shutting them when questioned more than once.

If the shutters had been shut when the kids went to stage the burglary, it makes even less sense that they would stick with that window as the entry point. The PGP would have us believe that they decided they needed to burglary to cover their involvement. I have never bought into that theory, but if they did think "we need another way in for Rudy than the front door", why would they continue with a window with closed shutters?

 

[JREF2010]

Precisely, It's absurd that Amanda would help Rudy, someone she had barely even spoken to and Raffaele someone she had known for 6 days kill Meredith her roommate of 420 days. There is no motive for Amanda, no motive for Raffaele. And the idea that it was the result of a sexual motive of Amanda's is beyond absurd.

But of course, none of this really matters, since there really isn't evidence of multiple attackers...not unless the ILE is suppressing that.

and to get off the pc and within 30-40minutes go kill, or even have a sex orgy is ridiculous.....even after Raffaele had plans to help a friend at midnight.

so if its so obvious, where is Maresca's head at?
what are they hoping for? the court will believe Nara and Toto, and the double knife theory, an impossible Lone Wolf scenario,

the fake cleanup determined by who? the same detectives under Monica Napoleoni who couldn't even count the circles on Raffaeles tennis shoe?

 

[acbytesla]

The demo climb was not convincing if the shutters had been pulled shut. As I've thought all along, I doubt they were shut and even Filomena admitted she hadn't latched them. She only became surer of shutting them when questioned more than once.

If the shutters had been shut when the kids went to stage the burglary, it makes even less sense that they would stick with that window as the entry point. The PGP would have us believe that they decided they needed to burglary to cover their involvement. I have never bought into that theory, but if they did think "we need another way in for Rudy than the front door", why would they continue with a window with closed shutters.

Again, I disagree, I don't think it makes an iota of difference. While it might if they were latched, but standing on the grate from the lower window, one could easily open the shutters from the outside.

 

[Bill Williams]

Machiavelli - do either you or Andrea Vogt side with the prosecution in the "seismologists failed to predict an earthquake" conviction?

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=italy-abruzzo-earthquake-scientist-trial

A year ago an Italian court sentenced six scientists and an ex-government official to six years in prison for manslaughter. More specifically, the judge found them guilty for failing to give adequate advance warning to the population of L’Aquila, a city in the Abruzzo region of Italy, about the risk of the April 2009 earthquake that caused 309 deaths.

 

[Grinder]

Again, I disagree, I don't think it makes an iota of difference. While it might if they were latched, but standing on the grate from the lower window, one could easily open the shutters from the outside.

Watch it again. Keep in mind that Rudy couldn't know from the outside that the shutter wasn't latched. If the shutters were pulled closed it would necessitate, at a minimum, a climb up to open them. Then he would need to go back down and up to the parking area to throw the rock.

I'm convinced that Mignini was able to get Filomena to remember she closed them.

It just doesn't make any sense that Rudy would know that the shutters wouldn't latch. It wouldn't make any sense for a burglar to make that climb to test them. That climb is doable but not easy. The new grill made it easier. While the window grate is a ladder there are no higher cross pieces to hold on to when the feet get above the bottom cross pieces.

 

[acbytesla]

and to get off the pc and within 30-40minutes go kill, or even have a sex orgy is ridiculous.....even after Raffaele had plans to help a friend at midnight.

so if its so obvious, where is Maresca's head at?
what are they hoping for? the court will believe Nara and Toto, and the double knife theory, an impossible Lone Wolf scenario,

the fake cleanup determined by who? the same detectives under Monica Napoleoni who couldn't even count the circles on Raffaeles tennis shoe?

Where is any of their heads? This is the most moronic of murder scenarios almost ever considered. I think the Perugian police must have been on drugs when they conceived this one.

You know if Amanda and Raffaele has a long term dysfunctional relationship, something like this might be remotely possible. However, two kids that just met who could only barely communicate with each other makes this beyond absurd.
This is a absurd joke played in a farce. Unfortunately the whole thing is real.

YOU HAVE TO BE A TOTAL MORON to even consider them to be guilty with these circumstances and this evidence.