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I had Cranialsacral therapy today

Lisa Simpson

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I get deep tissue massage once or twice per month for back problems. My massage therapist is great at the deep tissue massage. If she weren't, I wouldn't put up with the vast amounts of woo that she spews whilst I'm a captive audience. Anyway, today I told her I've been having migraines the last few days. So after the back massage was done, she laid her hands on my head and declared that my cerebrospinal fluid is "moving too fast" and that's why I have a migraine. It's moments like these that I'm grateful for the lessons I've learned in critical thinking.

My questions are:

Does cerebrospinal fluid move through the body?
If so, how?
If she felt movement through my scalp, wouldn't she be feeling my heart rate (normally about 60 bpm and thus, not too fast)?
How do I tell her at my next appointment to stick to massage?
 
Lisa Simpson said:
Does cerebrospinal fluid move through the body? If so, how?
Click to expand...

It doesn't really move in the context of the conversation - it diffuses through the cranium and spinal column just through everyday movement - breathing, walking, etc... - and basic fluid motion.

CSF is made by specialized cells on the underside of the brain and moves through the little spaces there. They continually make the fluid - which is replaced (on average) every day. The excess fluid is reabsorbed into the bloodstream at the base of the brain powered by the pressure differential. CSF is mostly water, which provides bouancy to the structures, gives them some protection from trauma by spreading the force of impacts, allows the neurons a nice little sewer to dump their waste into and probably acts as a hormonal/immune system pathway.

Lisa Simpson said:
How do I tell her at my next appointment to stick to massage?
Click to expand...

"I'm kind of embarrassed to bring this up. You know, I really feel like your treatments are helping me manage my [insert symptom here]. I just really take an empirical approach to physiology. You're such a nice person. Do you mind if we talk about your vacation or something?"

Do it after the session if you think it will be awkward. She'll have time to adjust before the next.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
So after the back massage was done, she laid her hands on my head and declared that my cerebrospinal fluid is "moving too fast" and that's why I have a migraine.
Click to expand...
That sounds like nonsense. But, how did you feel after this "therapy"?

Last I heard, the cause of migraines is still unknown, and there isn't much in the way of known effective treatments either. My wife suffers from migraines (or some kind of headache) too, and the only thing I know how to do to help is to give her a massage, and she claims this makes her feel better. She also gives explanations that sound wooish to me for why it works. I think it just may be that massage helps for unknown reasons. (Occasionally when it gets really bad she will take a Bufferin, but she tends to only use that as a last resort because she doesn't want to overuse it).

I'm not really qualified to answer your specific questions though, sorry.
 
Puppycow said:
That sounds like nonsense. But, how did you feel after this "therapy"?

Last I heard, the cause of migraines is still unknown, and there isn't much in the way of known effective treatments either. My wife suffers from migraines (or some kind of headache) too, and the only thing I know how to do to help is to give her a massage, and she claims this makes her feel better. She also gives explanations that sound wooish to me for why it works. I think it just may be that massage helps for unknown reasons. (Occasionally when it gets really bad she will take a Bufferin, but she tends to only use that as a last resort because she doesn't want to overuse it).

I'm not really qualified to answer your specific questions though, sorry.
Click to expand...

Really? I thought they were caused by constrictions in blood vessels in the brain. At least, that is what my doctor told me.
 
Well, here is what Wikipedia says.

Migraines are believed to be due to a mixture of environmental and genetic factors. [4]

About two-thirds of cases run in families. [5] Fluctuating hormone levels may also play a role, as migraines affect slightly more boys than girls before puberty, but about two to three times more women than men. [6][7] Propensity for migraines usually decreases during pregnancy. [6] The exact mechanisms of migraine are not known. It is, however, believed to be a neurovascular disorder. [5] The primary theory is related to increased excitability of the cerebral cortex and abnormal control of pain neurons in the trigeminal nucleus of the brainstem. [8]
Click to expand...
 
The migraine I had was relieved. But it was relieved before the cranialsacral stuff started. Probably by the regular massage part. I tend to clench my jaw which causes a lot of the migraines I get.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
The migraine I had was relieved. But it was relieved before the cranialsacral stuff started. Probably by the regular massage part. I tend to clench my jaw which causes a lot of the migraines I get.
Click to expand...

As someone who suffers from migraines, this sounds a lot more like a tension headache. Migraine is typically not responsive to massage IME, and can even get worse from them.

Also, if they are migraines, the jaw clenching is likely more of a symptom of migraine than the cause of it. However, if they're tension headaches, it may be part of the cause, or another symptom. I know for me, and many migraineurs of my acquaintance, muscle tension/spasm is a common prodromal symptom of migraine, and prodrome can precede an full-blown migraine by a few minutes to a few hours.

Causes are typically hormonal or neurological. Allergies are one of the most powerful triggers, as are certain food substances, and lights flashing at certain frequencies (similar to triggers for epileptic seizures). Stress can trigger migraines by causing hormone imbalance, but are also equally likely to cause tension headaches.

Some of the more effective medications combine a vasoconstrictive action with suppression of trigeminal nerve activity.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
If she felt movement through my scalp, wouldn't she be feeling my heart rate (normally about 60 bpm and thus, not too fast)?
Click to expand...


If she felt movement of your cerebrospinal fluid through your scalp, there is something wrong with your skull.

ETA: she could be feeling your heartbeat via arteries in the scalp, I suppose, but perhaps she is just 'feeling' movement because the people who trained her in CST told her that she should be feeling movement, just as chiropractors identify nonexistent subluxations.
 
Last edited:
Lisa Simpson said:
I get deep tissue massage once or twice per month for back problems. My massage therapist is great at the deep tissue massage. If she weren't, I wouldn't put up with the vast amounts of woo that she spews whilst I'm a captive audience. Anyway, today I told her I've been having migraines the last few days. So after the back massage was done, she laid her hands on my head and declared that my cerebrospinal fluid is "moving too fast" and that's why I have a migraine. It's moments like these that I'm grateful for the lessons I've learned in critical thinking.

My questions are:

Does cerebrospinal fluid move through the body?
If so, how?
If she felt movement through my scalp, wouldn't she be feeling my heart rate (normally about 60 bpm and thus, not too fast)?
How do I tell her at my next appointment to stick to massage?
Click to expand...

From the massage therapist's point of view, she performed a medical procedure. She appears to have done this without informed consent, which would be a bit naughty.

You could ask her to next time first inform you about any specific other procedure (than massage) she wants to perform on you and offer you a chance to consent or not.
Mutual respect creates a more professional and durable relationship for both parties.
 
When I have a migraine I can't bear to be touched. All my senses - hearing, sight, smell, touch, taste - get super-sensitive, which is why lying down in a darkened room is the best thing. But there are at least moderately effective treatments, at least for some people. For me sumatriptan taken when the headache starts, along with two Tylenol, will normally get rid of it or at least decrease it enough to allow me to function.
 
I get migraines so often that I have a high tolerance for pain. They don't usually knock me down unless they are REALLY bad. That's usually because I didn't take ibuprofen soon enough.

I cannot take triptan drugs, they make it hard for me to breathe.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
The migraine I had was relieved. But it was relieved before the cranialsacral stuff started. Probably by the regular massage part. I tend to clench my jaw which causes a lot of the migraines I get.
Click to expand...
Would clenching your toes instead help???
 
Lisa Simpson said:
My questions are:
Click to expand...
You already know that craniosacral therapy (CST) is bunk, so I assume you are asking about the research on the subject that is available.

I know of this systematic review.

Does cerebrospinal fluid move through the body?
If so, how?
Click to expand...
According to the review, the answer is yes, but the exact mechanism is unkown. There is no evidence that it is connected to health related issues.
If she felt movement through my scalp, wouldn't she be feeling my heart rate (normally about 60 bpm and thus, not too fast)?
Click to expand...
Changes in cerebrospinal fluid pressure caused by respiration is another possibility. But whatever she was feeling, I think it is important that reproducibility of this "test" is poor (discussed in the systematic review mentioned above). It is hard to argue that a test is worth anything, if the "diagnosticians" are unable to agree on the test results.

Another interesting study is this one. It is more recent than the review. The researchers tested what happens to the intracranial pressure when the skull is exposed to pressure of the magnitude delivered through CST (and also to measure any suture displacement). The result was that nothing happens.

How do I tell her at my next appointment to stick to massage?
Click to expand...
Just like that - you are the costumoer. From discussions with a CST-therapist, it is my gut feeling that nothing will persuade her that the idea of CST is wrong. Said therapist even denied that anatomy textbooks say that cranial bones fuse.
 
For what it's worth, I've had craniosacral therapy and I found it very relaxing. If you are just stressed out, I recommend it; if you have muscular and/or connective tissue problems and are seeking relief, go with a massage therapist who works on these specific areas.

My experience has been that most massage therapists are very high on the woo scale and are always wanting to try whatever they learned in their last weekend seminar (cranio-sacral, Shiatsu, Essential Oils therapy, etc.). If a therapist wants to try something new on you, you should receive a price break or even a short, free demonstration.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
The migraine I had was relieved. But it was relieved before the cranialsacral stuff started. Probably by the regular massage part. I tend to clench my jaw which causes a lot of the migraines I get.
Click to expand...


Do you clench your jaw while listening to the nonsense this person spouts? Iatrogenic tension headaches caused by relaxing massage?
Hmmm...
 
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