Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[anglolawyer]

Sorry, but what makes you think that I did not make a complaint?

Did you? Did you remember to use green ink? So what happened?

 

[Bill Williams]

(dupe)

 

[Bill Williams]

Why would Machiavelli (who is not known) make the sorts of allegations he makes when Andrea Vogt (who is known) seems to be the same sort of press agent that benefits Mignini....

..... but wait for it, aside from Andrea Vogt's blog and posting here by Machiavelli (same sort of stuff).... who else is the originator of such information? (Note: I am not talking about repeats of this info at hate sites.)

Does Mignini know that they are, in essence, tipping his own hand for information about the way he sees things in defence of himself? Or is it simply that they cannot give up on the now 5 years' old defamation PR campaign against Amanda Knox?

This is truly weird.

 

[Bill Williams]

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

I knew we'd get around to that old fable of the private jet, waiting to whisk Knox away from the Oct 3 acquittal.

This is not only a lie, but a laughable lie. These myths are the reason very few believe you....

 

[Machiavelli]

Was this a case where it is allowed, or not? What's the difference? I have seen statements from Mignini claiming he told the cops to stop questioning. If it was allowed, why?

I have never seen those statements from Mignini.
Question without defensive rights are allowed in the immediacy of events, in some conditions like the event of serious crimes.

Mignini asked her a bunch of questions (read her book).

This is only what she writes in her book. She wrote these things only 5 years later. She did not make such claim in the trial.
Actually he changed her claim about the interrogation night several times.
(btw we have also other witnesses, like Anna Donnino, slightly more credible than Amanda Knox)

There was nothing at all "spontaneous" about her statement.

Let me tell you, there is nothing at all spontaneous in her book.

 

[Grinder]

I've said numerous times I believe the murder happened between 10:15-10:30 before the car /tow truck incident. This fits with Curatolo seeing them later watching the gate, the near collision on the stairs and all three witnesses who heard arguing or screams, You are trying to discount this because Nara didn't check her clock not knowing a crime had been committed? If she were certain it was crime yes, but she even said she thought the terrible scream and the running might have been a joke. Your stubborn thinking that a time check was necessary is just that.

Those "witnesses" could fit any scenario because they provide no evidence of anything.

Curatolo doesn't know if they ever left. He didn't testify that he looked up and they were gone at any specific time if at all. I doubt he could see that far at night to identify them anyway. If he was close enough to the kids then he was close enough to hear the scream or did he move just before the scream?

Neither woman knows a time so I guess the prosecution just can fill in the blanks.

People when they wake up in the middle of the night generally check the time because it's dark and that's the only way to know the time. That's why we have clocks next to our beds. But it doesn't matter because it's better not to have a time that would need to fit in with other known times.

You might like 10:15-30 in order to beat the breakdown and squeeze in between one thing or another but that's not the prosecution's theory.

You have the murder preceded by the scream and all of them out before 10:30 and then the kids bloody with a knife in hand stand in the plaza for an hour waiting to return. Why did they leave?

Your stubborn thinking point that Nara's testimony is worth anything is just that.

 

[Briars]

I think that Patrik should be made to pay for all of the times he has slandered her. He kept repeating that she never apologized to him, when in fact she apologized so many times I got sick of hearing it.

She should pay up she was convicted of the crime and served 3 years Patik lost he business and suffered the humiliation of being jailed. Amanda and her mother kept quiet for 2 weeks or more. Funny how Patrik should pay in your little world. The blindness towards what he suffered is a glimpse how you twist everything for Amanda.

 

[Machiavelli]

I knew we'd get around to that old fable of the private jet, waiting to whisk Knox away from the Oct 3 acquittal.

This is not only a lie, but a laughable lie. These myths are the reason very few believe you....

Well actually I don't have any myth. In fact I don't know anything about how she flied from Italy. And I'm not interested in that. However, it's obvious her parents could not afford their trips to Italy, someone paid for their stayings.
But anyway, I am not interested in those speculations.
The media investment and their buisness was obvious.
And I also have my information that is there are good reasons to suspect an international plot and a case of judicial corruption took place, and there are ground for investigators to go after it. But this is also just my opinion as an answer to your question, the topic is in fact a matter for authorities and police action, not something to be discussed in forums. I'm kindly giving my opinion on this point, too.

 

[RoseMontague]

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

I knew we'd get around to that old fable of the private jet, waiting to whisk Knox away from the Oct 3 acquittal.

This is not only a lie, but a laughable lie. These myths are the reason very few believe you....

Strange that Machiavelli would still believe this.

 

[Briars]

Those "witnesses" could fit any scenario because they provide no evidence of anything.

Curatolo doesn't know if they ever left. He didn't testify that he looked up and they were gone at any specific time if at all. I doubt he could see that far at night to identify them anyway. If he was close enough to the kids then he was close enough to hear the scream or did he move just before the scream?

Neither woman knows a time so I guess the prosecution just can fill in the blanks.

People when they wake up in the middle of the night generally check the time because it's dark and that's the only way to know the time. That's why we have clocks next to our beds. But it doesn't matter because it's better not to have a time that would need to fit in with other known times.

You might like 10:15-30 in order to beat the breakdown and squeeze in between one thing or another but that's not the prosecution's theory.

You have the murder preceded by the scream and all of them out before 10:30 and then the kids bloody with a knife in hand stand in the plaza for an hour waiting to return. Why did they leave?

Your stubborn thinking point that Nara's testimony is worth anything is just that.

Give up unless you know what you are talking about as far as Grimana and the noise thing please. At the very least google and see a video on line Piazza Grimana view to gate, Shot from near the bench you can see the distance to the rail. You can hear first hand the traffic noise at times it drowns out the basketballs. There is no way he could have heard what Nara could.

 

[Machiavelli]

You were not specific before. I thought you meant the trial. Why do you think Mignini didn't want to question him in open court?

What? Sollecito did not want. He is the guy who declined the interrogation session, not Mignini.
And he could have just requested to be interrogated. Just like Amanda Knox did. He did not forward any request.
As far as I know Mignini did not call anyone for interrogation. He did not call Knox neither. But any defendant can request to be interrogated. Knox asked to be interrogated, she requested that twice and obtained two interrogations, one in 2007 on Dec. 17, and another one in 2009. Sollecito did not. And he was not interrogated.

I tell you why: Sollecito did not request to be interrogated because he feared his interrogation would end like Amanda's Dec. 2007 interrogation: with her feeling trapped, having a breakdown and invoking her right to remain silent.

 

[Mary_H]

She should pay up she was convicted of the crime and served 3 years Patik lost he business and suffered the humiliation of being jailed. Amanda and her mother kept quiet for 2 weeks or more. Funny how Patrik should pay in your little world. The blindness towards what he suffered is a glimpse how you twist everything for Amanda.

Did Amanda put Patrick in jail, Briars? Yes, I know, she did it through her words. The same words that a few hours later said she was not at the crime scene so could not possibly know whether or not Patrick was there. It was the police who chose the version they wanted to believe.

Did Amanda keep Patrick in jail for days after his alibi cleared him? You need to get your facts straight. Even Machiavelli admits Amanda's mother had told the press by November 9th that Amanda had retracted her accusations of Patrick.

 

[RoseMontague]

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

Well actually I don't have any myth. In fact I don't know anything about how she flied from Italy. And I'm not interested in that.

Well it sure sounded to me like you knew something about it, based on what you said. At least you admitted your statement was completely made up.

You don't sound like yourself all of a sudden. Are you feeling OK?

 

[Supernaut]

I meant to say that Mignini was in Profazio's room (with Giobbi, too). Check it out:

From summary of Giobbi testimony:

The Perugian police boasted of how nicely they treated Amanda. They gave her cake and camomile, etc. Giobbi wasn't in the interview rooms, instead hiding in the director's room. He testified that he could hear Amanda screaming, something not mentioned by the chamomile bearing Perugian police. http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/201...-confirms.html


Mignini interview by CNN:
11’03’’ CNN: No one hit her?
11’06’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let’s say… I wasn’t there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don’t know but I was… it’s quite far, there’s a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don’t exclude…well…it’s clear that I wasn’t there, but I don’t believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.

Mignini just never seems to be able to get his story straight, does he?

I can remember "reports" that he was woken at home after Amanda's signature had been obtained at 1.45, then he comes up with this, on camera, no less!

The infuriating thing is that most reporters/jounalists, even in the English-speaking world, ignore it/pretend not to notice, and continue repeating allegations about Amanda "repeatedly changing her story" and "all the lies she told", made by this same man.

 

[RoseMontague]

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

I just wanted to say that your English is getting better, good for you. Even this "btw". Nice touch. All this posting in English must be helping your English skills.

 

[Diocletus]

In some cases, yes. But in this case, there was no interrogation. There was a spontaneous statement.

Except the Supreme Court said the statement wasn't spontaneous. Which means that it was elicited. By migini. Illegally.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

assimilation of not so new information

She should pay up she was convicted of the crime and served 3 years Patik lost he business and suffered the humiliation of being jailed. Amanda and her mother kept quiet for 2 weeks or more. Funny how Patrik should pay in your little world. The blindness towards what he suffered is a glimpse how you twist everything for Amanda.

Briars,

One, the police closed Patrik's bar for months after he was released. IMO they are as much to blame as anyone. Two, the argument from authority (she was convicted; therefore, she must have been guilty) is unpersuasive at a discussion forum that prizes critical thinking. Three, Amanda did not keep quiet; she wrote the second memoriale of 7 November (which Mignini quoted back to her in part) and the letter to her lawyer. In the second memoriale she retracted her accusation, and in the letter she reverted to her version of events of 1 November prior to her coercive interrogation of 5 November. The second memoriale has come up here many times; I am not sure why you have not assimilated it into your thinking.

Why has Patrik maintained that Amanda never apologized to him when she has? Why should an observer of the case ignore this?

 

[acbytesla]

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

What private jet? I have no information that Amanda has been flying around on a private jet. Making that up too??

 

[acbytesla]

In some cases, yes. But in this case, there was no interrogation. There was a spontaneous statement.

So that's what you call it when someone puts a gun to your head? Hmmmm... a spontaneous statement...... hmmmmm

 

[Bill Williams]

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

Well actually I don't have any myth. In fact I don't know anything about how she flied from Italy. And I'm not interested in that. However, it's obvious her parents could not afford their trips to Italy, someone paid for their stayings.
But anyway, I am not interested in those speculations.
The media investment and their buisness was obvious.
And I also have my information that is there are good reasons to suspect an international plot and a case of judicial corruption took place, and there are ground for investigators to go after it. But this is also just my opinion as an answer to your question, the topic is in fact a matter for authorities and police action, not something to be discussed in forums. I'm kindly giving my opinion on this point, too.

Holy cow.... you've just outed yourself.... I will not call this an out and out lie, because there are many reasons why you would want to make such a declarative statement as...

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

Only to retract it minutes later. I will give you honesty on this one - spotting your mistake and then correcting it.

Yet, if I can be so bold, your style is to make declarative statements like this.

You once said that Amanda Knox was resistant to sleep-fatigue and sleep deprivation induced from trauma and lack of sleep...

.... THEN you started a long conversation listing your own non-existant bona fides for making such a statement.

You would have been better off back then to similarly admit your mistake and move on.

Do you just make things up, so as to make Amanda Knox look guilt-ish? I'd hesitate to call it out right lying because there are many, many other reasons why someone would do this.....

.... but you ARE in the habit of making things up, and making them sound declarative.

Btw, she couldn't even afford a private jet. But somebody hired it for her.

Well actually I don't have any myth. In fact I don't know anything about how she flied from Italy. And I'm not interested in that. However, it's obvious her parents could not afford their trips to Italy, someone paid for their stayings.
But anyway, I am not interested in those speculations.

You sure sounded interested when you thought you had some guilter-ish factoid to offer.

Sheesh. I suddenly shift from an accusatory tone to a more sympathetic one, like RoseM... Are you okay?