Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Machiavelli]

You mean she was "telling the truth" in the book she wrote 5 years later, or she was "telling the truth" when she, throught defence, did not claim any 05:45 interrogation for years, and claimed a false memory syndrome?
She was telling the truth in the Dec. 17. 2007 interrogation, when she told that she had a vision of Lumumba in her apartment just "one instant" after she was shown the text message on her call hone, or was she telling the truth in her 2009 court testimony, when she told that she endured a questioning for quite a while after she was shown the text message?

Yes, she is telling the truth. Mignini is a liar.

Mine was not a yes/no question. I asked which one of these was the true one, in your opinion.

 

[acbytesla]

I meant to say that Mignini was in Profazio's room (with Giobbi, too). Check it out:

From summary of Giobbi testimony:

The Perugian police boasted of how nicely they treated Amanda. They gave her cake and camomile, etc. Giobbi wasn't in the interview rooms, instead hiding in the director's room. He testified that he could hear Amanda screaming, something not mentioned by the chamomile bearing Perugian police. http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/201...-confirms.html


Mignini interview by CNN:
11’03’’ CNN: No one hit her?
11’06’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let’s say… I wasn’t there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don’t know but I was… it’s quite far, there’s a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don’t exclude…well…it’s clear that I wasn’t there, but I don’t believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.

WOW!!!! You just proved that Machiavelli posted more duplicitous and false information. Doe that make Machiavelli a liar?? Hmmmmmmm???? So that means that Mignini was there, what's more, how can Mignini say Amanda wasn't hit, even though he wasn't in the room during the interrogation? And if he was in the directors room with Giobbi, why does he think Amanda was screaming?

 

[RoseMontague]

Mine was not a yes/no question. I asked which one of these was the true one, in your opinion.

Was Mignini telling the truth when he said they didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget or was he telling the truth when he said they were in a hurry to get ready to arrest Patrick and just forgot?

Let me put it this way, Amanda's answers are honest ones and Mignini's are not.

 

[acbytesla]

I meant to say that Mignini was in Profazio's room (with Giobbi, too). Check it out:

From summary of Giobbi testimony:

The Perugian police boasted of how nicely they treated Amanda. They gave her cake and camomile, etc. Giobbi wasn't in the interview rooms, instead hiding in the director's room. He testified that he could hear Amanda screaming, something not mentioned by the chamomile bearing Perugian police. http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/201...-confirms.html


Mignini interview by CNN:
11’03’’ CNN: No one hit her?
11’06’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let’s say… I wasn’t there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don’t know but I was… it’s quite far, there’s a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don’t exclude…well…it’s clear that I wasn’t there, but I don’t believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.

WOW!!!! You just proved that Machiavelli posted more duplicitous and false information. Doe that make Machiavelli a liar?? Hmmmmmmm???? So that means that Mignini was there, what's more, how can Mignini say Amanda wasn't hit, even though he wasn't in the room during the interrogation? And if he was in the directors room with Giobbi, why does he think Amanda was screaming?

 

[Machiavelli]

I meant to say that Mignini was in Profazio's room (with Giobbi, too). Check it out:

From summary of Giobbi testimony:

The Perugian police boasted of how nicely they treated Amanda. They gave her cake and camomile, etc.

Amanda Knox admitted to that too.
And the witnesses confirmed that.

Giobbi wasn't in the interview rooms, instead hiding in the director's room. He testified that he could hear Amanda screaming, something not mentioned by the chamomile bearing Perugian police. http://knoxarchives.blogspot.com/201...-confirms.html

I don't know where Giobbi was nor you know. But the myth of a "Knox screaming" would require - besides Giobbi's confirmation - a source different than "knoxarchives". Why Knox didn't call Giobbi to testify in her defence?

Mignini interview by CNN:
11’03’’ CNN: No one hit her?
11’06’’ Mignini: No, look, absolutely not. I can state this in the most positive way, and then, let’s say… I wasn’t there when she was being questioned by police, the rooms are quite far away… you don’t know but I was… it’s quite far, there’s a corridor, and I was with the director, Dr. Porfazio, and she was being questioned in a different place. I also remember that passing through, I also saw Sollecito who was alone in a different room; he was also being questioned, as I recall. I don’t exclude…well…it’s clear that I wasn’t there, but I don’t believe that anything whatsoever happened, and in my presence absolutely not.

And what time it was?
At what time was Mignini driven to the police station?

 

[Mary_H]

Listen, try stop twisting and look at things. Knox's lawyers did not bring the issue of the 05:45 interrogation at the supreme court. They brought the issue of the 05:45 spontaneous statement at the supreme court.
They brought it in wìone instance as an issue together with the 01:45 interogation and the hand written memorial, and together with the request of annullment of the order of cautionary custody.

Btw they basically lost, because the Court rejected their instance of annullment and she remained in jail.

Their complaint was not about the legality ot it - or better, their allegations about legality were never accepted - the issue was strictu sensu about usability.
Usability is not legality.

The Court answered with a nuanced indication, saying the various statements have different degrees of usability. But that kind of indication of the High Court is - besides being legally not binding for courts - with a limited scope of application. It was limited to one specific charge and to one state of proceedings (when the indictment and the case changed its shape, Massei reconsidered the issue and basically considered the statements as usable).

I have no doubt the indication was nuanced.

 

[Mary_H]

Was Mignini telling the truth when he said they didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget or was he telling the truth when he said they were in a hurry to get ready to arrest Patrick and just forgot?

Let me put it this way, Amanda's answers are honest ones and Mignini's are not.

 

[Diocletus]

Why Knox didn't call Giobbi to testify in her defence?

Gee, I don't know . . . maybe because he's one of the cops who tried to frame her?

And what time it was?
At what time was Mignini driven to the police station?

Early enough to be in the director's room when they were interrogating Knox, which would have been prior to 1:45. You know--when she was screaming.

 

[Machiavelli]

Was Mignini telling the truth when he said they didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget or was he telling the truth when he said they were in a hurry to get ready to arrest Patrick and just forgot?

Let me put it this way, Amanda's answers are honest ones and Mignini's are not.

Mignini never said they "didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget". He said the police didn't record the interrogation (01:45 interrogation) because they just don't do that because of budget.
Then he said that HE didn't record Knox statement (the 05:45 sponteneous statement, the one she delivered to him) because of confusion due to the hurry to arrest Lumumba, and they didn't think about it.

Amanda's versions are simply divergent. It's not about being "honest", that would be a subjective perception, it's about being compatible between each other. They are inconsistent among each other, they are not compatible. And they are given in court not to a journalist during an informal chat. And she is the suspect in a murder trial, Mignini is not a suspect just a chap talking to entartain another chap, he doesn't actually need to answer to anyone's question.

 

[Diocletus]

But the myth of a "Knox screaming" would require - besides Giobbi's confirmation - a source different than "knoxarchives". Why Knox didn't call Giobbi to testify in her defence?

Sollecito said in his book that he could also hear her screaming. And, as far as I know, no one brought charges against him for saying that (how could they, Giobbi agrees), so by your logic, it means that it's a fact not a myth.

 

[Mary_H]

Mignini never said they "didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget". He said the police didn't record the interrogation (01:45 interrogation) because they just don't do that because of budget.
Then he said that HE didn't record Knox statement (the 05:45 sponteneous statement, the one she delivered to him) because of confusion due to the hurry to arrest Lumumba, and they didn't think about it.

Amanda's versions are simply divergent. It's not about being "honest", that would be a subjective perception, it's about being compatible between each other. They are inconsistent among each other, they are not compatible. And they are given in court not to a journalist during an informal chat. And she is the suspect in a murder trial, Mignini is not a suspect just a chap talking to entartain another chap, he doesn't actually need to answer to anyone's question.

I thought she was a witness. Talk about divergent versions.

 

[RoseMontague]

Mignini never said they "didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget". He said the police didn't record the interrogation (01:45 interrogation) because they just don't do that because of budget.
Then he said that HE didn't record Knox statement (the 05:45 sponteneous statement, the one she delivered to him) because of confusion due to the hurry to arrest Lumumba, and they didn't think about it.

Amanda's versions are simply divergent. It's not about being "honest", that would be a subjective perception, it's about being compatible between each other. They are inconsistent among each other, they are not compatible. And they are given in court not to a journalist during an informal chat. And she is the suspect in a murder trial, Mignini is not a suspect just a chap talking to entartain another chap, he doesn't actually need to answer to anyone's question.

Oh come on Mach, they were recording her in the waiting room. What budget allows money for recording 10,000 phone calls and recording people in waiting rooms and can't record one in the interrogation room. Seriously, do you expect anyone in their right mind to believe that?

 

[Diocletus]

Mignini is not a suspect just a chap

You misspelled "crap".

 

[RoseMontague]

Not to mention making a 3D cartoon of the prosecution fantasy. Who authorized that thing?

 

[Diocletus]

Oh come on Mach, they were recording her in the waiting room. What budget allows money for recording 10,000 phone calls and recording people in waiting rooms and can't record one in the interrogation room. Seriously, do you expect anyone in their right mind to believe that?

Yeah, and BTW, what do you suppose that Profazio, Mignini and Giobbi were doing in the director's room? So you suppose that they might have listening systems in there so that the Director can monitor interrogations in his interrogation rooms? I'll bet they do. I'll bet that's how they heard the screams: over their surveillance system. You know, the one with the tape recorder.

 

[Machiavelli]

Gee, I don't know . . . maybe because he's one of the cops who tried to frame her?

Do you intend to use his words in Knox's defence or not?

Early enough to be in the director's room when they were interrogating Knox, which would have been prior to 1:45. You know--when she was screaming.

The room where she was. Not when they were interrogating her. And now please be logical. You are using Mignini as a source. But how can you claime Knox was being interrogated whil Mignini was already there, if Mignini (your source) says he was not in the room where she was?
If your source was not in that room, how can you have from your source a testimony that she was being interrogated in that room?
If a guy (Mignini) says he is elsewhere (as he says in the quoted snippet), that means NOT in the room where Knox is, this implies he CANNOT tell that they are actually interrogating her in that moment (in fact he doesn't say that).

According to Anna Donnino Knox remained in that room for many hours after the end of the 01:45 interrogation, basically the whole night.
That was where she was interrogated, which doesn't mean that she was being interrogated while Mignini was around.

Moreover, I think in Griffin's interview Mgnini gives a time for when he came at the police station.

 

[RoseMontague]

Mignini never said they "didn't record the 5:45AM interrogation because of budget". He said the police didn't record the interrogation (01:45 interrogation) because they just don't do that because of budget.
Then he said that HE didn't record Knox statement (the 05:45 sponteneous statement, the one she delivered to him) because of confusion due to the hurry to arrest Lumumba, and they didn't think about it.

Amanda's versions are simply divergent. It's not about being "honest", that would be a subjective perception, it's about being compatible between each other. They are inconsistent among each other, they are not compatible. And they are given in court not to a journalist during an informal chat. And she is the suspect in a murder trial, Mignini is not a suspect just a chap talking to entartain another chap, he doesn't actually need to answer to anyone's question.

I thought she was a witness. Talk about divergent versions.

LOL, didn't catch that, yes of course. I guess what Mach is saying is that since Mignini doesn't need to answer any questions he can just make stuff up. Sorry, Mach, I already knew that.

 

[Machiavelli]

Oh come on Mach, they were recording her in the waiting room. What budget allows money for recording 10,000 phone calls and recording people in waiting rooms and can't record one in the interrogation room. Seriously, do you expect anyone in their right mind to believe that?

So this is what you have? That you don't believe the police does not record interrogations?

So you assume they recorded all the witnesses interrogations in this investigation?

 

[acbytesla]

Really Machiavelli. How can you look yourself in the mirror? Budget issues? They recorded just about every moment they could with Amanda and Raffaele. They recorded her in the hallway. They tapped and recorded her phone. They spent 200 K on a damn cartoon.

You should be ashamed of your sophistry.

 

[Machiavelli]

I thought she was a witness. Talk about divergent versions.

I was talking about the 17. interrogation as opposed to the 2009 court interrogation - she was a suspect.
About her position during the preliminary investigation and trial as opposed to that in her book - she was a suspect.