The dreaded "A" word

[TimCallahan]

I think the whole southern "rock music is the devil's work" thing largely came about, or at least was exacerbated, when, in 1966, John Lennon declared that the Beatles were "...more popular than Jesus."

Back when I was monitoring our local fundamentalist radio station, in the late 1980s, programs would feature speakers going on about the evils of rock music. The one song that really got them all frothing at the mouth was John Lennon's song "Imagine."

 

[L.Y.S.]

Based on my own experience the US is not substantially different than Canada or the UK in this. Religion is not a topic of conversation in normal society. Of the dozen or so people I work with I am aware of the religion of only one, and that did not come up in a religious discussion, but rather with reference to her wedding plans. She mentioned getting a Lutheran minister to perform the ceremony, partly in Danish, as her grandparents were Danish immigrants.
The high level of attention that religion seems to receive in the US is, I believe, an artifact of the political process and news coverage. To most people it is not an issue.

I would beg to differ. The US is very religious. The topic is more often than not avoided to keep peace. With that being said, there are certain parts of the country which are more religious than others. Of course the great northern cities region (Great Lakes and Northeast) are fairly nonreligious, or are at least becoming increasingly nonreligious. I would even say the same is happening on the west coast, but the farming states, also known as the bible belt are becoming increasingly religious. These areas are bastions of religiosity in the US. Which is why if certain things like Gay marriage aren't solved by the courts, it will never happen in states like these.

The bible belt is extremely religious in my experience.

 

[Humes fork]

I'm interested in why Iceland would be so into superstition and woo. Do you have any ideas?

Not sure. Could be that Iceland is not very modernistic in its culture, and culturally conservative and rural. Folklorish beliefs probably have a better chance of survival in such an environment.

 

[blutoski]

I would beg to differ. The US is very religious. The topic is more often than not avoided to keep peace. With that being said, there are certain parts of the country which are more religious than others. Of course the great northern cities region (Great Lakes and Northeast) are fairly nonreligious, or are at least becoming increasingly nonreligious. I would even say the same is happening on the west coast, but the farming states, also known as the bible belt are becoming increasingly religious. These areas are bastions of religiosity in the US. Which is why if certain things like Gay marriage aren't solved by the courts, it will never happen in states like these.

The bible belt is extremely religious in my experience.

Yes, I'm surprised by Pope130's assessment that the US was not very religious. I think USA comes in 2nd in the western world to Turkey for portion of population that believe in literal 6 day creation approximately 6,000 years ago. Percentages seem to depend on wording, but the rankings are consistent.

ETA: Yep. Graph: []

 

[Garrison]

Indeed, there are plenty of people who are atheist but don't know it.

Or the Church of England as it's usually known...

 

[Pope130]

Yes, I'm surprised by Pope130's assessment that the US was not very religious. I think USA comes in 2nd in the western world to Turkey for portion of population that believe in literal 6 day creation approximately 6,000 years ago. Percentages seem to depend on wording, but the rankings are consistent.

ETA: Yep. Graph: [[qimg]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Views_on_Evolution.svg[/qimg]]

Slight difference there. I didn't say that the US is not religious, but, rather, made the observation that, in my experience, religion is rarely a topic of conversation. I accept the survey results that indicate that most of the people I know are probably religious, but I don't have that as a matter of my own knowledge. It's just not something that has ever come up.

 

[L.Y.S.]

Slight difference there. I didn't say that the US is not religious, but, rather, made the observation that, in my experience, religion is rarely a topic of conversation. I accept the survey results that indicate that most of the people I know are probably religious, but I don't have that as a matter of my own knowledge. It's just not something that has ever come up.

As a matter of pointing out, you live on the West Coast. One of the many areas that is becoming increasingly non-religious. As I've stated before there are two areas of the country that are slowly becoming non-religious. The American West Coast, and the Great Northern Cities Region (which includes the Great Lakes Cities and the North East).

 

[Dani]

This is a question about culture.

Here in the UK, religion is such a minor issue that no-one would ever think to ask about your religious convictions, and would probably expect that most people they come into contact with wouldn't have any religious convictions. It is a non-issue.

Indeed, there are plenty of people who are atheist but don't know it. They may never even have heard the word atheist, but laugh at the notion of god or the supernatural. There is no "coming out" involved, and there is absolutely no sense of any community not believing or accepting that you aren't religious, or that you have no morals.

Now, I want you to take the next step. Instead of describing yourself as an atheist, I want you to describe yourself as an anti-theist, and then come back to us in a few weeks time and give an account of the reactions that engenders.

Although statistics show that Spain is more religious than UK, I'd say that Spain is quite apatheistic. However, it varies from region to region. Catalonia, where I'm from, is probably the least religious region of Spain. I don't know anyone who goes to church. People believe in God or not, but they're not judgmental about it, and nothing stops me from talking about how stupid religion is with co-workers, for example. In fact it doesn't take much intellectual effort to be an atheist. It's becoming more and more the default position. The problems we have here derived from religion are more political than social. The Catholic Church is still too powerful here, but not enough to prevent the widespread consensus in favor of gay marriage becoming law almost a decade ago. Still a lot of work to do, but as I said, the struggle is more political than social.

 

[dafydd]

One of the guys in my Men's Bible Study group (I am agnostic, by the way) was (and probably still is) of the opinion that Atheists spend an inordinate amount of time talking about God, which he found odd, seeing as how they don't believe in Him and all.

They don't.

 

[John Jones]

One of the guys in my Men's Bible Study group (I am agnostic, by the way) was (and probably still is) of the opinion that Atheists spend an inordinate amount of time talking about God, which he found odd, seeing as how they don't believe in Him and all.

An IDer with whom I used to have frequent 'discussions' was of the opinion that atheists have neither any philosophical nor moral business talking about [her] God for any amount of time.

 

[smartcooky]

An IDer with whom I used to have frequent 'discussions' was of the opinion that atheists have neither any philosophical nor moral business talking about [her] God for any amount of time.

Do you agree with [her]?

 

[TimCallahan]

An IDer with whom I used to have frequent 'discussions' was of the opinion that atheists have neither any philosophical nor moral business talking about [her] God for any amount of time.

Does she object to them bringing up the impact of mass extinctions? This sounds like a really dumb way for a deity to stimulate evolution. Of course, a lot of IDers are old earth creationists. Still, mass extinctions seem sloppy.

 

[John Jones]

Do you agree with [her]?

Almost never.

 

[John Jones]

Do you agree with [her]?

She didn't see any irony or contradiction in denying an atheist's right to criticize Jesus, but at the same time asserting her right to criticize other gods.

As you may have guessed, she wasn't an astute interlocutor.

 

[smartcooky]

Almost never.

Excellent!

Its not the first time I have heard this ridiculous trope "you don't believe in God so you have no right to talk about Him".

By the same token, believers would have no right to speak about the Big Bang, evolution or continental drift.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

At least in NYC, it is no big deal to say you are a non-believer. Even religious people won't blink an eye (usually). If you don't use the "a" word and say something like "I'm not religious", the response is even better. There is no response, really.

In my experience, anyway. It may depend on which circle you are dealing with.

It wasn't a big deal 10 years ago. Or even 20 years ago.

 

[TimCallahan]

At least in NYC, it is no big deal to say you are a non-believer. Even religious people won't blink an eye (usually). If you don't use the "a" word and say something like "I'm not religious", the response is even better. There is no response, really.

In my experience, anyway. It may depend on which circle you are dealing with.

It wasn't a big deal 10 years ago. Or even 20 years ago.

Glad to hear it. A lot of what I find here in California is what Daniel Dennett has referred to as the "belief in the belief in God." I may have already mentioned this, but when I mentioned my skepticism to my late brother, his response was, "But aren't you still a Christian?" For some reason it was important to him that I be at least nominally Christian - even though he himself never attended church.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Yeah, that's true. I've seen that. People have a vague belief in God and are still affected by the, let's say, religious atmosphere of the Western World. It is still a part of our culture.

Even though they have gay friends, though they only celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, though they are very secular in multiple respects, they still seem to think you need to retain a general belief in religion.

Somehow you can't go a step further and say the "a" word.

But they don't seem to be offended at all by "I'm spiritual but not religious" or "I was raised Catholic but haven't attended church since I was a kid" or "I don't believe in organized religion".

 

[catsmate]

Glad to hear it. A lot of what I find here in California is what Daniel Dennett has referred to as the "belief in the belief in God." I may have already mentioned this, but when I mentioned my skepticism to my late brother, his response was, "But aren't you still a Christian?" For some reason it was important to him that I be at least nominally Christian - even though he himself never attended church.

Yeah, that's true. I've seen that. People have a vague belief in God and are still affected by the, let's say, religious atmosphere of the Western World. It is still a part of our culture.

Even though they have gay friends, though they only celebrate Christmas as a secular holiday, though they are very secular in multiple respects, they still seem to think you need to retain a general belief in religion.

Somehow you can't go a step further and say the "a" word.

But they don't seem to be offended at all by "I'm spiritual but not religious" or "I was raised Catholic but haven't attended church since I was a kid" or "I don't believe in organized religion".

Rather like the Church of England then?