Hunger in America

[DragonLady]

If you live in the USA you have access to refrigeration and cooking facilities, mmmkay? Any long-term rental provides those. I have a lot of experience in affordable housing (i.e., low-income apartments) and I know what I'm talking about on that issue.

??? Out here where I live, most people own their homes. And in many of the homes out here, every appliance is broken or only performs half it's expected function. I suppose there might be some kind of assistance program available to help repair or replace appliances, but I know I would not want to go through the application process.

Further...when talking about food stamps, it's important to remember they can ONLY be used to buy food.

They cannot be used to buy items required for food storage like aluminum foil, plastic wrap, Tupperware, etc. That means being forced to buy smaller packages that will fit in the refrigerator or freezer.

A hundred boxes of cereal? Food that is thrown away because it can't be eaten before it goes bad seems to me another part of the problem, not part of the solution?

 

[gumboot]

A hundred boxes of cereal? Food that is thrown away because it can't be eaten before it goes bad seems to me another part of the problem, not part of the solution?

This is the biggest problem myself and my girlfriend have. We end up spending a lot on food simply because the available portions are too big and we can't finish them before they go bad, so we end up buying twice as much.

It's a perpetual source of frustration, particularly as it's the healthier food that tends to be more perishable.

 

[DragonLady]

This is the biggest problem myself and my girlfriend have. We end up spending a lot on food simply because the available portions are too big and we can't finish them before they go bad, so we end up buying twice as much.

It's a perpetual source of frustration, particularly as it's the healthier food that tends to be more perishable.

Yes; we have the same problems here. I see sales for things like fresh strawberries if we buy a flat, but I know we won't eat them all.

You're right, too, it's the healthy stuff that spoils. The processed and packaged stuff lasts forever, but sometimes that is a problem, too. I opened a package of something the other day that had bugs in it, and I'm guessing there's a lot more up there they've ruined.

 

[kellyb]

Out here where I live, most people own their homes. And in many of the homes out here, every appliance is broken or only performs half it's expected function.

Technically, he said "access to" stoves and fridges and whatnot. My fridge and oven are both broken right now (seriously) but I do have access to the thrift store to buy "new" ones, even if I don't have access to enough money right now to pay for them.

 

[DragonLady]

My fridge and oven are both broken right now (seriously) but I do have access to the thrift store to buy "new" ones, even if I don't have access to enough money right now to pay for them.

I hear ya! I had to replace our refrigerator this summer, and it was an expensive nightmare. Naturally, it broke in the hottest part of the year, right after I filled it with food, and at a time when the only ice machine within 30 miles broke down.

Our oven is broken, too...but it will be months before I can afford to fix it, so I'm not going to be baking anything for a long time.

 

[Innovator101]

Are you serious, hunger is very real problem

Hunger usually goes hand and hand with unemployment. If there is no income it doesn't matter if $3.50/day will feed you. You have nothing. Then there is the escalating prices for housing. Even in a recession rental prices are increasing. Most places are at least $600 a room or $700/month for a studio apt. And if you have a family of 4 there are limits to how many ppl can live in one apt legally. A lot of immigrants break the law and pile ppl in a house to pay the rent. So besides food other standards of living are not leaving much money left over for food. A low utility bill can cost $100/month on low energy consumption. I don't know my communes have not caught on. In Denmark it is rated one of the happiest places to live, they cave coop communities where dinners are shared along with other things like baby sitting and yard work, etc... Society as a whole is just selfish by nature.

 

[RemieV]

Hunger usually goes hand and hand with unemployment. If there is no income it doesn't matter if $3.50/day will feed you. You have nothing. Then there is the escalating prices for housing. Even in a recession rental prices are increasing. Most places are at least $600 a room or $700/month for a studio apt. And if you have a family of 4 there are limits to how many ppl can live in one apt legally. A lot of immigrants break the law and pile ppl in a house to pay the rent. So besides food other standards of living are not leaving much money left over for food. A low utility bill can cost $100/month on low energy consumption. I don't know my communes have not caught on. In Denmark it is rated one of the happiest places to live, they cave coop communities where dinners are shared along with other things like baby sitting and yard work, etc... Society as a whole is just selfish by nature.

I'm on the side of the hungry people, but I'm curious where these numbers even came from. I had an apartment in Texas that was $365/mo. (which was a studio), and the first one I had in Vegas was $550/mo. (though I've seen cheaper). I'm not sure if you mean 'all utilities', but the same Vegas apartment that was $550/mo. was all bills paid except electricity, which was about $70/mo. (and that's considering 119 degree summers).

Check out the handy table for average apartment prices:

http://www.discoverabroad.com/us/livingabroad/housing/apartmentmore.htm

 

[bigred]

I propose that it's not acceptable in a modern, western country (let alone the richest country in the world) for anyone to be living in that chasm.

I counter with the proposal that people be should held accountable for their own lives (gasp) and that the welfare mentality/methodologies, despite the best of intentions, simply do not work. Further, the idea that just because we are a "modern" country that we should spoon-feed those who aren't feeding themselves I find equally flawed. The ever-growing attitude of entitlement and what people think the world "owes" them is but one of the tragic results.

PS I would hope it's stating the obvious that these are all generalizations and circumstances vary with individuals...there's quite a difference (for example) between someone who is disabled through no fault of their own and someone who has created their own hunger/misery/etc.

 

[Morrigan]

I don't know about "most places", but these prices are certainly typical (or even low end of) large North American cities, unfortunately.

 

[bigred]

I'm on the side of the hungry people, but I'm curious where these numbers even came from. I had an apartment in Texas that was $365/mo. (which was a studio), and the first one I had in Vegas was $550/mo. (though I've seen cheaper). I'm not sure if you mean 'all utilities', but the same Vegas apartment that was $550/mo. was all bills paid except electricity, which was about $70/mo. (and that's considering 119 degree summers).

Check out the handy table for average apartment prices:

http://www.discoverabroad.com/us/livingabroad/housing/apartmentmore.htm

Thank you, I was wondering myself as I knew you could get 2BR apts here (mid-Atlantic) starting around $600, studios/etc less.

But back to the food thing.....

To whoever said it, I never said anything about $350/mo for 2 people, but as I only spend low $200s/mo for myself (and some of those things I could share if I had someone else living with me), I suspect it's rather workable. But the broader point is I think a LOT of people in this country are either too lazy and/or stupid to bother to plan out meals and spend sensibly in general (on food and other things) - then they whine about how society is unfair, the gov't should help them more, blah blah blah. Please.

 

[RemieV]

Thank you, I was wondering myself as I knew you could get 2BR apts here (mid-Atlantic) starting around $600, studios/etc less.

But back to the food thing.....

To whoever said it, I never said anything about $350/mo for 2 people, but as I only spend low $200s/mo for myself (and some of those things I could share if I had someone else living with me), I suspect it's rather workable. But the broader point is I think a LOT of people in this country are either too lazy and/or stupid to bother to plan out meals and spend sensibly in general (on food and other things) - then they whine about how society is unfair, the gov't should help them more, blah blah blah. Please.

I'm going to paste my previous post in case you were blind to it.

I'm almost afraid to post in this thread.

I have a heart condition. I spend most of my day lying down. I even work lying down. I'm even typing this lying down.

My level of ability to do things is subject to constant change. This means that I eat frozen things, or canned things. My meals are not complex, and require little to no cook time. Sometimes I order in, because I've run out of things to eat and can't get anywhere.

It's kind of an expensive way to do meals, but there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

As for 'food insecurity', well, I have a lot of doctor's appointments. And, while I have insurance, there is still co-pay. There's still the cost of medications. And I'm talking about several appointments per month.

Now, luckily, I make enough to get by. I'm not rolling in cash or anything, but I have enough that I was able to get Watson a bow-tie collar and a fez for Halloween. I mean, I had to carefully plan it out (even though the grand total was around $30), but I could do it.

I can see someone in my circumstances making just a bit less money and being completely screwed. I mean, when I schedule my doctor's appointments, it isn't when they WANT to see me. It's when I can afford to see them. I think that's what's meant by 'food insecurity'. You get to choose between going to a doctor, and eating decently.

Honestly, I cannot buy the components of a stew because whether or not I'd be able to stand long enough to cook it is a question.

A little poorer, or a little sicker, and this would be pretty much impossible.

 

[WildCat]

There's hunger in the U.S., but 50 million? That's from the "Department of People Who Pull Numbers Out of Their Butts." Until Mexico passed us recently, the U.S. has been #1 in the world in the "Lardasses and Hambeasts" department for a long time. I wouldn't stop giving to food banks, but I'm sick and tired of people who make up statistics to get sympathy and donations.

Those lardasses and hambeasts are always hungry...

 

[bigred]

I'm going to paste my previous post in case you were blind to it.

I'm going to paste my previous post since you clearly were blind to it.

PS I would hope it's stating the obvious that these are all generalizations and circumstances vary with individuals...there's quite a difference (for example) between someone who is disabled through no fault of their own and someone who has created their own hunger/misery/etc.

 

[gumboot]

I counter with the proposal that people be should held accountable for their own lives (gasp) and that the welfare mentality/methodologies, despite the best of intentions, simply do not work. Further, the idea that just because we are a "modern" country that we should spoon-feed those who aren't feeding themselves I find equally flawed. The ever-growing attitude of entitlement and what people think the world "owes" them is but one of the tragic results.

This is all very true, and clearly illustrated by the consistent failure in every possible measure of countries with robust social welfare systems...

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

This is all very true, and clearly illustrated by the consistent failure in every possible measure of countries with robust social welfare systems...

And how the productivity of the American people has declined while their income has risen since the rise of the welfare/entitlement mentality...

 

[jimbob]

Those of you who are doing an excellent job of feeding your family cheaply are demonstrating many of the points I mentioned in my earlier post

• The ability to plan well in advance
• The ability to buy in bulk in advance and store food
• Access to refrigeration and cooking facilities
• Cooking skills

Not everyone can do this.

I think its more a matter of Not everyone WILL do this...

planning in advance, buying bulk, etc... isnt rocket science... I think it would be Much more accurate to say that nearly everyone Can do those things, than can not.

Plus... why trouble yourself with thinking in advance or cutting coupons if the State is willing to step in and just give you the food ?

I disagree.

Bedsit accommodation can have pretty rubbish kitchen facilities. If you need benefits and then your fridge or cooker breaks, it could be difficult to get hold of a replacement especially as crisis loans in the UK are not so readily available (I CBA to check if they still exist). The kitchen goods one does get are likely to be cheap in the short term and cost more over time as their quality is lower.

And worrying about money can cost you about 10 IQ points - affecting your ability to plan and deal with complex and important tasks.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/aug/29/poverty-mental-capacity-complex-tasks

Not to mention the sheer time spent working. The contract cleaners at my workplace mostly seem to work at least 6-day weeks, and also work long hours.

Whenever I have worked significantly longer hours, I have struggled to do anything outside work and commuting.

 

[phildonnia]

For those trying hard to minimize the problem, please let me know your recent direct experience working in shelters and food banks including some details of your personal interviews with a significant amount of the partakers.
I've worked in all of them in the past year, spent a lot of time talking with people. There are drug addicts, there are substance abusers and there are those that are taking advantage of the system.

But there are many who are simply in circumstances which have proved difficult for them to fend for themselves. For some it's catastrophic illness. Other have mental health issues. Others physical disabilities. The reasons are many and often it's a combination. I've been fortunate to see some enter the system and exit it on their way back.

But to some of us, the image of the welfare Cadillac mother or other meme which, while having a grain of truth, is blown out of proportion by the right wing to justify their cancerous and selfish attitude.

Fix the system, deny those that don't deserve the help, but don't broad brush away a very real problem.

As I've discussed this issue with others, I frequently run into arguments implying that anyone who is not either impoverished or associated with poverty culture is unqualified to have an opinion or to state any fact on this topic. I certainly do profess ignorance on the first-hand experience of poverty; it was really the purpose of my post to gain some insight into this. Your point is well taken as far as it applies; at the same time, arguments that do not depend on unsupported narratives and prejudice remain standing: How can there be hunger when 1) every person* is guaranteed to have $4.50 per day for spending on food and 2) adequate nutrition can be provided with that amount?

With that out of the way: I regularly break bread and converse with the homeless, the drug addicts, and the elderly, and the generally down at a weekly church-sponsored free breakfast. Yet basic human respect (not to mention tact) requires that I don't satisfy my curiosity by asking about their food-spending habits and other aspects of their home economies. This intrusive job is for impersonal researchers with government grants. Where are the studies?

* there are exceptions, that I would claim are insignificant.

 

[phildonnia]

Maybe you're not the only one missing something...

I would take "food insecurity" to mean the opposite of "food security" which relates to whether a country has sufficient arable land to feed its population. I know that the USA loses a significant amount of arable land for every new person, and that in the near future (I think the year is 2020 or 2050?) the USA will no longer have food security - that is it will have to be a net importer of food as there will be insufficient arable land in the USA to feed its population.

This is, of course, at current projected patterns of population growth and arable land loss. Factors such as increasing the yield of arable land, or the conversion of non-arable land to arable, can change this.

This is not the meaning of "food insecurity" as it is commonly used. But I do not find this issue troubling at all. The idea that a country must be completely self-sufficient to be prosperous (even in a single important industry) has never been true.

 

[phildonnia]

From the USDA website (first result when I googled "definition of food insecurity"):

Very low food security (old label=Food insecurity with hunger): Reports of multiple indications of disrupted eating patterns and reduced food intake.

This is the definition that I glibly equated with "forced to make economic choices about food".

Let me make a points about this definition: It does not address whether the disrupted eating patterns or reduced food intake result in malnutrition, lower enjoyment of food, or social stigma.

This gives an easy point of attack to fiscal conservatives who claim that if someone had a habit and preference for eating fillet-mignon, and settled for hamburger instead, then they would be suffering from a "disrupted eating pattern, and are therefore suffering from food insecurity with hunger, and are among the ranks of America's 18% starving.

This image feeds the ridiculous "welfare queen" narrative, and people who use this argument are probably jerks who hate the poor. Yet, the definition of "food insecurity" permits it.

 

[phildonnia]

Living in a quite rural area in the US at this time, I see something of an opposite curve; stores which understand they are often the only reasonably nearby solution for all but the big bi-monthly shopping trips will have higher prices to take advantage. For instance, judging by the price of a loaf of bread: the closest store to me right this moment is approximately one mile away, a gas station with a small food market; here a loaf of bread costs just about $3; there's only one brand available (a regional brand). The next furthest is in the closest town (village, really) 5 miles further, with a small grocery; it has a shelf full of variety in bread, the cheapest coming in at about $2.39. Next to this is a "dollar store" which offers a "dollar store brand" loaf of bread at $1.70; 2 miles further to the outskirts of the nearest mid-sized city finds a Wal-Mart and "Walmart-brand" bread for about $1.39; the Wal-Mart also has a small variety of regional brands of course but the prices go up.

This is a very good point; and it may address my confusion over the lack of visibility of the alleged hunger problem. It is not so well known that poverty is much more prevalent in rural areas, poverty in the cities which occurs at a lower rate is much more visible. But suggesting that we address poverty by moving more poor rural-dwellers to the city would get one laughed out of the room.