Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
Nobody forgets the FBI. Their main weapon is...
"24 hard facts about 9/11 that cannot be debunked"
- Thread starter ArchStanton
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jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Maybe...
You have some implied limits on what is falling and what falling is. (Excuse the word play.)
I stand you vertically in a closed box. The box height set so that your feet are on the bottom and your head is in contact with the top. I put a tennis ball in your right hand and close the box.
Then I drop the box + you + tennis ball off a high building with you and box upright.
To occupy yourself during the journey you throw the tennis ball down onto the floor/bottom of the box.
What is the acceleration of the tennis ball:
a) Before you move your arm;
b) As your arm/hand moves downwards to throw it? AND
c) Immediately after release before it bounces off the bottom of the box?
Get that lot under the belt and understanding "Over G" possibilities at WTC7 is only one extra step. [qimg]http://conleys.com.au/smilies/thumbup.gif[/qimg]
Yes, we have already done this exercise a while ago.
Of course in the context of 7WTC the frame of reference is the surface of the Earth. My argument above includes the concept that says that while the center of mass of any object in free fall near the surface of this planet may achieve an acceleration near 'g' of 9.8 m/s/s(air resistance and distance to the CoM of the earth slightly affecting dense large mass objects), if that object is rotating with axis of rotation other than aligned with the force due to gravity, then points other than its COM can achieve greater than 'g' wrt to the surface of the Earth.
Better?
Will fonebone understand it?
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tsig
a carbon based life-form
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The sad fact is that there are no magical silver bullets to dispatch woo. Stories and lies that were debunked a thousand times will be drug out and paraded around as brand new time after time.
ozeco41
Philosopher
Revision is part of the learning process.
Yes...and you have taken that next step I referred to.
Here is my version - rather than drop the box in a stable vertical orientation - tip it over the side so that it starts to spin.
COM falls (near enough) G - one end cyclically exceeding G then G then less than G then....... (that mechanism was probably the WTC7 "part of façade over G" scenario.)
If he doesn't AND he is one of his beloved "genuine truth-seekers" he can ask for more clarification.
C22
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Yeah the sum of instantaneous acceleration of all points in the rotating object will still equal 'g'.
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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Reliable and deadly accurate, it is the handgun of choice for the FBI, the DEA and the Secret Service to name a few; and it has just been awarded contracts from the Coast Guard and Homeland Security. Law enforcement's baby: the SIG SAUER P229.
http://www.bvvinc.org/WebPages/Miltary.com images/Reliable and deadly accurate.htm
The Spanish Inquisition?
Actually, I have a sneaking suspicion that Mr Kcin's comment may have been a riff on the old Monty Python "Spanish Inquisition" routine (apologies if I'm mistaken).
Reliable and deadly accurate, it is the handgun of choice for the FBI, the DEA and the Secret Service to name a few; and it has just been awarded contracts from the Coast Guard and Homeland Security. Law enforcement's baby: the SIG SAUER P229.
http://www.bvvinc.org/WebPages/Miltary.com images/Reliable and deadly accurate.htm
Actually, I have a sneaking suspicion that Mr Kcin's comment may have been a riff on the old Monty Python "Spanish Inquisition" routine (apologies if I'm mistaken).
Robrob
Philosopher
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911KookDetector
Thinker
Lol yes. I have seen all of these a minimum of 50 times each throughout my Youtube Twoofer debunking career. I have become so accustomed to hearing most of them that I have concise rebuttals practically memorized. Of course, with a touch of ad hominem.
angrysoba
Philosophile
And no matter what figure was spent on the 9/11 Commission, Truthers will claim that it was both too little and therefore couldn't get the job done and too much because the money was obviously used to stuff the mouths of fellow conspirators and all part of the plan to fleece the taxpayer and Dick Cheney is cackling on a pile of money or something.
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
The joke from the old days was : "The Marines are looking for a Few Good Men...The FBI is looking for the rest."
tsig
a carbon based life-form
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I thought so to but I thought a deadpan fact answer might be in the spirit of the sketch.
Myron Proudfoot
Master Poster
not to derail, but I thought the first Gulf of Tonkin attack was real, and the second time the US sailors fired on radar "ghosts." Is that wrong?
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
My belief is that the whole episode was fueled by active imaginations and itchy fingers, and there were "blips on the radar," but once the smoke cleared there were red faces and exposed asses in evidence.
Contrary to assertion, the NV's were shooting at whoever they had in range, and they had been engaging in the south and in Laos.
Giap's comment on Tonkin:
In 1995, former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara met Giáp to ask what happened on 4 August 1964 in the second Gulf of Tonkin Incident. "Absolutely nothing", Giáp replied.[9] The attack on 4 August 1964, had been imaginary,[10] although it had not started as a deliberate fabrication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vo_Nguyen_Giap#After_the_wars
sonofgloin
Thinker
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Larry Silverstein makes a statement that he never repeats or acknowledges again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jPzAakHPpk
How is it possible that within a few hours of making the decision to demolish Bldg 7 it falls into its own footprint?
According to Larry Silverstein the NYFD achieved in a few hours what demolition teams and engineers take weeks to accomplish.
Given that before 911 no high rise has fallen to its basement due to fire, this is not just suspect this is arguable proof of pre meditation given who made the statement. Can any poster propose a scenario that rebuffs the obvious?
This piece adds more "obvious" scenarios needing to be explained. The detractors last statement of "reporters do your job...ask some questions" expresses the exasperation of those who for good reason do not believe the media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OE3Adu4l0g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jPzAakHPpk
How is it possible that within a few hours of making the decision to demolish Bldg 7 it falls into its own footprint?
According to Larry Silverstein the NYFD achieved in a few hours what demolition teams and engineers take weeks to accomplish.
Given that before 911 no high rise has fallen to its basement due to fire, this is not just suspect this is arguable proof of pre meditation given who made the statement. Can any poster propose a scenario that rebuffs the obvious?
This piece adds more "obvious" scenarios needing to be explained. The detractors last statement of "reporters do your job...ask some questions" expresses the exasperation of those who for good reason do not believe the media.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OE3Adu4l0g
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DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
The FDNY would be the only ones that would pull their fire fighting efforts. I don't know what you're talking about.
Mark F
Graduate Poster
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So your hypothesis then is that a real estate developer ordered the FDNY (not NYFD) to blow up a building? And you think that said real estate developer, after pulling off the most fiendish and secretive criminal plot in all of human history just decided to casually admit to the whole thing on national TV, right? And you don't find it odd there was not a hint of follow-up after that alleged admission from his insurers, the FBI, etc, etc, etc... And you find this whole thing more plausible than 19 terrorist thugs with a long history of attacking the United States hijacking 4 airplanes and crashing them into symbols of American economic, military and political power to achieve their own political aims?
Really?
This begs two rather obvious questions that most of the rest of us have already considered but I suspect you have not:
1. Since when does the FDNY take orders from a real estate developer AND
2. Since when is the FDNY is the business of blowing up buildings?
Beyond that there are additional obvious questions which I suspect you may not have considered. What is the motive for example?
What's that you say? Insurance scam?
OK, let us consider that. Silverstein properties got what from its insurers, about $4.6 billion? Seems like a lot doesn't it? But wait, what were the conditions on the use of those funds? They could only be used to rebuild on the same site, right? How much did that cost? Best estimates are about $9 billion. Even using Truther math I'm not finding the big windfall here and we have not even considered 12 years of lost rental revenue, legal expenses, etc, etc, etc,... which will add up to several billion more dollars at least. Not to mention they billions that would have to be paid out to the co-conspirators in the FDNY who were in on the plan. I mean, they lost several hundred of their brothers in that whole thing - it is going to take a LOT OF MONEY to hush them up about something like this.
But wait, if 9/11 was just a big insurance scam, how does one explain Flight's 77 and 93 and the attacks on Washington DC? How does that fit into an insurance scam? Did Larry Silverstein Properties own the lease on the Pentagon?
I'm starting to think this whole Larry did it for insurance money angle doesn't hold much water. Besides, no 47-story high-rise building has ever been destroyed in a controlled demolition before and of course we all know that if something has never happened before it can never happen. And of course the FDNY has never blown up a building before either and since things that have never happened before can never happen,...
But we are getting ahead of ourselves. Really we need to examine exactly what is it Mr. Silverstein claims to have said. During an interview for the documentary America Rebuilds: A Year at Ground Zero, broadcast on PBS in 2002 Mr. Silverstein made the following statement when discussing the loss 7 World Trade Center, a non-descript and virtually unknown office building in the WTC complex that collapsed at 5:21pm on 9/11:
Sounds to me like this means; "there has been so much loss of life already lets pull the firefighting operation so as to not risk the lives of more FDNY members on a lost cause." I honestly don't know how or where one gets there has been so much loss of life already lets blow the thing up from. That strikes me as the Chimpanzee part of the brain at work.
What do the FDNY have to say about the collapse of 7? How about this from Chief Hayden;
Seems to me that when the FDNY says "pull" they literally mean pull their people out of harms way not blow up building.
That's my explanation. Can you do better?
jaydeehess
Penultimate Amazing
Mark F. has done a fine job of rebuffing the
So all I could possibly add would be the reaction I had at first reading your post.
Aaaaahahahahahahaha
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
Silverstein (themselves) only got about 900 Million*. The only building they owned was WTC 7. It had a 400 Million dollar mortgage and the cost to rebuild was about 700 Million. Silverstein had to borrow money to complete this scheme.
*PANYNJ hold the purse strings for most of the insurance money.
The FDNY and NYC DOB would be responsible for public safety when a building or structure in the city is under stress, fire, severely damaged. Their assessment was that 7WYC was becoming increasingly unstable and subject to inevitable collapse. They may a call to set up an evacuation zone and pulled all the FDNY and other personnel from the building late in the afternoon. They used the press to inform the public of their decision. To the commissioner it was not whether the building would come down but when it would. It did... he was correct. His decision saved the lives of FDNY and other responders near the building.