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skyrider44 said:
Leaders of all stripes commonly say one thing for public consumption and write another in their personal journals. How many times have VIPs been caught saying the "wrong" thing into a microphone they didn't know was "live"?
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What are you, a truther arguing that CIA black ops during the cold war are proof that 9/11 was an inside job? If you want to argue Paul believed a particular thing, provide some evidence, not irrelevant yammering about how other people believe something different than what they wrote.

skyrider44 said:
Nice imagery, even though it's revelatory of naivete about the dynamics of public relations.
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Trying to make a claim based on what you wish Paul REALLY meant is nonsensical at best. You can babble all you want about politics, but that doesn't change the fact that you are bulls****ing. Any argument based on what one wishes Paul meant when he wrote the opposite is not an argument, but blatant, naked, wishful thinking.

I could, with just as much accuracy, claim that John Smith REALLY advocated the violent rape of six year old Native children, but he didn't write about it for political reasons.

Don't bother arguing against that accusation. You'd just be exposing your naivete about the dynamics of public relations.

skyrider44 said:
You posit a breathtakingly silly claim.

And just when I thought it couldn't get any more nonsensical.
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And yet that's exactly how some of the Lutheran churches I attended described Mormons, as humanists who believe men can become rulers of their own planets.

Claiming it's "silly" doesn't change the fact that many people see you in exactly those terms after examining your cosmology. I know you think you believe in a "god," but your "god" is just a man who was a really good Mormon on another planet. You are a humanist. You do not worship a god, but an ascended man. Your "God" is little different than the "Star Baby" from "2001: A Space Odyssey."

Your inability to realize this is an artifact of the human mind's status as a complex Turing machine. There are limits to self-analysis, and you are currently refusing to examine your own faith from the viewpoint of an outsider. Until you accept the realities of how your faith is perceived, your attempts at apologetic writing will remain clumsy and embarrassing.

For example:

Janadele said:
http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com...f-ephraim.html

The above link is to a blog post taken from Treasures from the Book of Mormon, Volume One, by W. Cleon Skousen, PAGES 232- 234 .

I found it to be a fascinating read which generally outlines LDS beliefs and teachings regarding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The following is the introduction:

"When the Gospel was restored in modern times, we gained an additional insight into one of the most perplexing riddles of Bible history: "Whatever happened to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel?" We are far from having the whole answer, but at least we have located two important segments of the Lost Tribes -- the Ephraimites in America and Europe and the people of Manasseh among the aborigines of America and the Pacific Islands. Since Isaiah 11:13-14 speaks of Ephraim and Judah combining together in the performing of a special work, it is particularly significant to have the Lord bring Ephraim out of hiding."
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Here we have someone rambling on, claiming there's some kind of "Mystery" to what happened to the "ten tribes" when the historical record and the Bible both agree that the region was invaded and people carted off multiple times. Inventing a "mystery" that's "explained" by your holy text is sloppy, because it's easy to fact check and find the "mystery" isn't a mystery at all.
 
I keep asking both skyrider44 and Janadele direct questions, but neither has the courtesy to answer me, or even acknowledge that I ask.

Why?
 
Janadele said:
http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com...f-ephraim.html

The above link is to a blog post taken from Treasures from the Book of Mormon, Volume One, by W. Cleon Skousen, PAGES 232- 234 .

I found it to be a fascinating read which generally outlines LDS beliefs and teachings regarding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The following is the introduction:

"When the Gospel was restored in modern times, we gained an additional insight into one of the most perplexing riddles of Bible history: "Whatever happened to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel?" We are far from having the whole answer, but at least we have located two important segments of the Lost Tribes -- the Ephraimites in America and Europe and the people of Manasseh among the aborigines of America and the Pacific Islands. Since Isaiah 11:13-14 speaks of Ephraim and Judah combining together in the performing of a special work, it is particularly significant to have the Lord bring Ephraim out of hiding."
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Or, this.
 
Skyrider44 and Janadele -

I understand and appreciate you believe you are included in Gods plan as chosen ones. You believe you are privileged to see and understand things that other people are not.

May I ask what you believe to be your day to day functions, as a part of this plan?

Thank you.
 
Janadele said:
http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com...f-ephraim.html

The above link is to a blog post taken from Treasures from the Book of Mormon, Volume One, by W. Cleon Skousen, PAGES 232- 234 .

I found it to be a fascinating read which generally outlines LDS beliefs and teachings regarding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The following is the introduction:

"When the Gospel was restored in modern times, we gained an additional insight into one of the most perplexing riddles of Bible history: "Whatever happened to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel?" We are far from having the whole answer, but at least we have located two important segments of the Lost Tribes -- the Ephraimites in America and Europe and the people of Manasseh among the aborigines of America and the Pacific Islands. Since Isaiah 11:13-14 speaks of Ephraim and Judah combining together in the performing of a special work, it is particularly significant to have the Lord bring Ephraim out of hiding."
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The broken link notwithstanding, I appreciate the effort you put into this post, Janadele. You provided it in a context that made it topic-appropriate and you flavored it with a bit of yourself.

It does lead to some questions that several posters have raised, but that is the nature of discussion, right?
 
Janadele said:
http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com...f-ephraim.html

The above link is to a blog post taken from Treasures from the Book of Mormon, Volume One, by W. Cleon Skousen, PAGES 232- 234 .

I found it to be a fascinating read which generally outlines LDS beliefs and teachings regarding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The following is the introduction:

"When the Gospel was restored in modern times, we gained an additional insight into one of the most perplexing riddles of Bible history: "Whatever happened to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel?" We are far from having the whole answer, but at least we have located two important segments of the Lost Tribes -- the Ephraimites in America and Europe and the people of Manasseh among the aborigines of America and the Pacific Islands. Since Isaiah 11:13-14 speaks of Ephraim and Judah combining together in the performing of a special work, it is particularly significant to have the Lord bring Ephraim out of hiding."
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Too bad for you those claims are completely wrong.
 
Janadele said:
http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com...f-ephraim.html

The above link is to a blog post taken from Treasures from the Book of Mormon, Volume One, by W. Cleon Skousen, PAGES 232- 234 .

I found it to be a fascinating read which generally outlines LDS beliefs and teachings regarding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel. The following is the introduction:

"When the Gospel was restored in modern times, we gained an additional insight into one of the most perplexing riddles of Bible history: "Whatever happened to the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel?" We are far from having the whole answer, but at least we have located two important segments of the Lost Tribes -- the Ephraimites in America and Europe and the people of Manasseh among the aborigines of America and the Pacific Islands. Since Isaiah 11:13-14 speaks of Ephraim and Judah combining together in the performing of a special work, it is particularly significant to have the Lord bring Ephraim out of hiding."
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These would be your beliefs that are incorrect.
 
Janadele said:
http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com...f-ephraim.html

The above link is to a blog post taken from Treasures from the Book of Mormon, Volume One, by W. Cleon Skousen, PAGES 232- 234 .
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For the record - no relation.

I found it to be a fascinating read which generally outlines LDS beliefs and teachings regarding the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.
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Here's the problem - what LDS teachings say are only part of the equation. The other part is whether those teachings are true. Nothing you've posted addresses the latter.
 
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jsfisher said:
The broken link notwithstanding, I appreciate the effort you put into this post, Janadele. You provided it in a context that made it topic-appropriate and you flavored it with a bit of yourself.

It does lead to some questions that several posters have raised, but that is the nature of discussion, right?
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Here is another try at posting the link:

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/cleon-skousen-origin-of-ephraim.html
Plus a continuation of the above posted introduction:
"In America and Europe the restored Gospel acted as a magnet to draw out of the Gentile nations a remnant of Ephraim which had been scattered among them during a period of many centuries. These Ephraimites constituted the vast majority of the Church membership during the first 100 years of its existence. But what of the other tribes? That remains as deep a secret as ever. All the Lord has told us is that, wherever they are, the Lost Tribes have prophets among them who are preparing them to come down from the "north countries" and that he will raise up a mighty highway in the "midst of the great deep" which will permit them to come to Zion when the time is right so they can receive the Endowment and other blessings under the hands of Ephraim.1 But as to their present whereabouts, we know nothing for certain. Our research is therefore limited to the task of tracing the history of that remnant of Ephraimites who somehow made their way to Europe and then to America or other parts of the world. To do this, let us go back to the 8th century B.C., when the Ephraimites and the rest of the Ten Tribes first disappeared. "
 
Janadele said:
Here is another try at posting the link:

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/cleon-skousen-origin-of-ephraim.html
Plus a continuation of the above posted introduction:
"In America and Europe the restored Gospel acted as a magnet to draw out of the Gentile nations a remnant of Ephraim which had been scattered among them during a period of many centuries. These Ephraimites constituted the vast majority of the Church membership during the first 100 years of its existence. But what of the other tribes? That remains as deep a secret as ever. All the Lord has told us is that, wherever they are, the Lost Tribes have prophets among them who are preparing them to come down from the "north countries" and that he will raise up a mighty highway in the "midst of the great deep" which will permit them to come to Zion when the time is right so they can receive the Endowment and other blessings under the hands of Ephraim.1 But as to their present whereabouts, we know nothing for certain. Our research is therefore limited to the task of tracing the history of that remnant of Ephraimites who somehow made their way to Europe and then to America or other parts of the world. To do this, let us go back to the 8th century B.C., when the Ephraimites and the rest of the Ten Tribes first disappeared. "
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Personally prefer Tolkien... it's soo much better.
 
Janadele said:
Here is another try at posting the link:

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/cleon-skousen-origin-of-ephraim.html
Plus a continuation of the above posted introduction:
"In America and Europe the restored Gospel acted as a magnet to draw out of the Gentile nations a remnant of Ephraim which had been scattered among them during a period of many centuries. These Ephraimites constituted the vast majority of the Church membership during the first 100 years of its existence. But what of the other tribes? That remains as deep a secret as ever. All the Lord has told us is that, wherever they are, the Lost Tribes have prophets among them who are preparing them to come down from the "north countries" and that he will raise up a mighty highway in the "midst of the great deep" which will permit them to come to Zion when the time is right so they can receive the Endowment and other blessings under the hands of Ephraim.1 But as to their present whereabouts, we know nothing for certain. Our research is therefore limited to the task of tracing the history of that remnant of Ephraimites who somehow made their way to Europe and then to America or other parts of the world. To do this, let us go back to the 8th century B.C., when the Ephraimites and the rest of the Ten Tribes first disappeared. "
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So do you believe black people are cursed?
 
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Janadele said:
Here is another try at posting the link:

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/cleon-skousen-origin-of-ephraim.html
Plus a continuation of the above posted introduction:
"In America and Europe the restored Gospel acted as a magnet to draw out of the Gentile nations a remnant of Ephraim which had been scattered among them during a period of many centuries. These Ephraimites constituted the vast majority of the Church membership during the first 100 years of its existence. But what of the other tribes? That remains as deep a secret as ever. All the Lord has told us is that, wherever they are, the Lost Tribes have prophets among them who are preparing them to come down from the "north countries" and that he will raise up a mighty highway in the "midst of the great deep" which will permit them to come to Zion when the time is right so they can receive the Endowment and other blessings under the hands of Ephraim.1 But as to their present whereabouts, we know nothing for certain. Our research is therefore limited to the task of tracing the history of that remnant of Ephraimites who somehow made their way to Europe and then to America or other parts of the world. To do this, let us go back to the 8th century B.C., when the Ephraimites and the rest of the Ten Tribes first disappeared. "
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Let's not, I find that time travel upsets my stomach and confuses temporality so I avoid it.
 
Janadele said:
Here is another try at posting the link:

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/cleon-skousen-origin-of-ephraim.html
Plus a continuation of the above posted introduction:
"In America and Europe the restored Gospel acted as a magnet to draw out of the Gentile nations a remnant of Ephraim which had been scattered among them during a period of many centuries. These Ephraimites constituted the vast majority of the Church membership during the first 100 years of its existence. But what of the other tribes? That remains as deep a secret as ever. All the Lord has told us is that, wherever they are, the Lost Tribes have prophets among them who are preparing them to come down from the "north countries" and that he will raise up a mighty highway in the "midst of the great deep" which will permit them to come to Zion when the time is right so they can receive the Endowment and other blessings under the hands of Ephraim.1 But as to their present whereabouts, we know nothing for certain. Our research is therefore limited to the task of tracing the history of that remnant of Ephraimites who somehow made their way to Europe and then to America or other parts of the world. To do this, let us go back to the 8th century B.C., when the Ephraimites and the rest of the Ten Tribes first disappeared. "
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Again we see legend masquerading as history. There is no evidence of "lost tribes" anymore than there is evidence of lost native Americans from Mexico.

And again I would like to point out that a single family does not constitute a "tribe". That would simply be a "remnant" and would not in any fashion, shape or form equate to the tribe. If the BoM were true and if there were a lost tribe, the narrative of the BoM would not begin to explain what happened to all of the people that were ostensibly lost.

It's like finding a survivor of the Jonestown Massacre who happened to be in another country at the time of the massacre and using that person's existence alone to explain what happened to all of the other people.
 
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I just don't see how Joseph Smith was being honest in his BoA...


3556306_orig.jpg
 
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Janadele said:
Here is another try at posting the link:

http://woodyoubelieveit.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/cleon-skousen-origin-of-ephraim.html
Plus a continuation of the above posted introduction:
*snip looniness*
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While I appreciate your attempts at making your posts a bit more personal, I think you might find that conspiracy nuts like Skousen aren't given a great deal of credit in these parts. Have you actually read The Naked Communist? I realize it was from the wacky world of McCarthy times, but really.

And your link shows that his lunacy continued on from politics into his religious views. Others have already explained the silly idea of the Lost Tribes, so I won't reiterate, but there's a reason that until the vile Glenn Beck began promoting The 5,000-Year Leap, no one paid the slightest attention to Skousen. He's a crank.
 
Unfortunately for Mormons, being that the papyrus was a sacred funeral text the papyrus was a fairly common document. There are many copies.

Here is another one.

7rx5.jpg


Note both the similarities and dissimilarities. Note that Hor is grasping his phallus and note that Anubis has the head of a Jackal.

And, I will make the point one more time, why on earth would Egyptians included in their sacred texts a narrative that puts the Egyptian religion in a negative light? What do you mean "idolatrous"?

It would be as if Mormons included anti-Mormon literature inside of the casket with their loved ones. It makes zero sense. Nothing about this story has the ring of truth. Had Smith truly been able to translate the papyrus then that would be something of serious importance to all people.
 
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