Latest Bigfoot "evidence"

[Dinwar]

6000 people over 200,000 years isn't very many whether it would fit on a 6 x 12 table, or not. The whole discussion is asinine and fallacious.

You're right.

The discussion started with me pointing out that if bigfoot existed, we would expect to see fossils even if we don't see living specimens. Chris decided to make this about the number of hominid fossils in an asinine and fallacious attempt to argue that the fossil record isn't complete enough to show the presence of Gigantopithicus in North America even if they were here.

Also, you may want to look into that 6,000 number. I suggest starting with "Archaeology of Human Remains". There are a great many nuances involved in calculating such a figure that Chris is ignoring or unaware of. Short version is, no matter who came up with it I don't believe the number for a second, and neither should anyone else. That sort of determination is pretty much impossible in archaeology 99 times out of 100, and means nothing in terms of anthropology of hominids.

Also, bear in mind the depositional environments. There are FAR better environments in North America along the paths any Gigantopithicus would have to travel than there are in Africa. The fact that we have so many fossils from those low-quality depositional environments means that hominid remains are pretty robust. There are numerous places we would expect to see them in North America if they were here (again, Rancho La Brea springs to mind--we've found extremely hold human remains there, so we know ape bones fossilize well in that area). To put it in videogame terms, 6,000 individuals is akin to a mage hitting a foe with a sword fifty times. If you give that sword to the paladin of the group, it's going to hit much more frequently. Similarly, North America tends to yield better fossils than African rift valleys because it's simply better at preserving them and more people are looking. If Gigantopithicus was in North America I'm extremely confident we'd have seen it. We don't, so I'm very comfortable saying it didn't exist here.

If you don't know what higher power means ask Dinwar. He had no problem with that one.

Nope. You wanted to derail this conversation to discuss my personal beliefs in God, without having the courage to openly say it, because you were getting spanked in terms of the actual data and were trying to weasel out of the corner you'd painted yourself into. The definition of "higher power" in this thread is "red herring".

 

[Dinwar]

Thank you , I'll call Monday. Wasn't that easy? No addition of extra drama required though.

We'll see. I genuinely do not believe you. And I shouldn't have to point out museums to you--if you were 1/10th the scientist you pretend to be, you'd be able to make these decisions yourself based on the peer-reviewed articles I linked to.

ETA: I should also point out the fact that merely saying this demonstrates your complete unfamiliarity with the modern world, as well as paleontology. If you'd ask me that question, I could get you the answer without a phone call.

 

[Jodie]

You're right.



Also, you may want to look into that 6,000 number. I suggest starting with "Archaeology of Human Remains". There are a great many nuances involved in calculating such a figure that Chris is ignoring or unaware of. Short version is, no matter who came up with it I don't believe the number for a second, and neither should anyone else. That sort of determination is pretty much impossible in archaeology 99 times out of 100, and means nothing in terms of anthropology of hominids.

Also, bear in mind the depositional environments. There are FAR better environments in North America along the paths any Gigantopithicus would have to travel than there are in Africa. The fact that we have so many fossils from those low-quality depositional environments means that hominid remains are pretty robust. There are numerous places we would expect to see them in North America if they were here (again, Rancho La Brea springs to mind--we've found extremely hold human remains there, so we know ape bones fossilize well in that area). To put it in videogame terms, 6,000 individuals is akin to a mage hitting a foe with a sword fifty times. If you give that sword to the paladin of the group, it's going to hit much more frequently. Similarly, North America tends to yield better fossils than African rift valleys because it's simply better at preserving them and more people are looking. If Gigantopithicus was in North America I'm extremely confident we'd have seen it. We don't, so I'm very comfortable saying it didn't exist here.

.

I got the number from the Smithsonian web site, and it wasn't whole skeletons, it was teeth and bits of bones from 6000 individuals. Calvary Cemetery in Queens has 3 million burials to put it in perspective.

Unless Giganto started eating something other than Bamboo, I doubt he made it over here to NA, but I asked way back where the fossil ancestors for Giganto were in Africa. It's a legitimate question, I couldn't really find anything when I googled. But they should be there right? We all came from Africa.

 

[Slowvehicle]

It's clear your intent is merely to confront to agitate with twists. It doesn't work on me.

It's no longer interesting and a bit unnerving. I'm bored with the nonsense which is your post. If you have any further questions ask someone else. If you don't know what higher power means ask Dinwar. He had no problem with that one.

1. You are on record lying about what I said. (It is telling that you continue to avoid this).

2. I did not address my question about a "higher power" to Dinwar, but to you. I am not the least bit confused by what I would mean by a "higher power", were I ever to stoop to the term. I am mildly interested in what you mean by the term; I am a bit more interested in your continued avoidance of answering the question. (It is telling that you pretend not to understand this).

3. The truth is only "unnerving" when you are trying to hide from its implications.

4. Your pretended lack of understanding, your avoidance, your obfuscation, your clear errors about the human/hominid fossils, and your general calumny do not turn my post into "nonsense" (especially since you continue to avoid arguing the issue, instead preferring to pretend to address the issuer).

BTW, you are incorrect about my intent.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

We'll see. I genuinely do not believe you. And I shouldn't have to point out museums to you--if you were 1/10th the scientist you pretend to be, you'd be able to make these decisions yourself based on the peer-reviewed articles I linked to.

I just wanted to know where all these Hominid fossils you were seeing are. The West Coast is too far for a museum field trip so I've never made a visit to the museum in San Bern. Again, thank you.

 

[desertgal]

I just wanted to know where all these Hominid fossils you were seeing are. <snip>

That isn't what you asked.

Rudeness won't make you right. Revealing where all these drawers of Hominid fossils are would however. Give me a few locations and I'll call personally. I have free long distance service. It's a matter of simplicity to request the number of specimens on file. I already know what's at Smithson and Field Museums.

On a side note, I'd say Dinwar has treated you with more courtesy than you've shown him.

 

[Dinwar]

I got the number from the Smithsonian web site, and it wasn't whole skeletons, it was teeth and bits of bones from 6000 individuals. Calvary Cemetery in Queens has 3 million burials to put it in perspective.

I don't mean to imply that you're using bigfoot sources. What I'm saying is that calculating the number of individuals is extremely tricky, and requires some assumptions that frequently simply don't hold true. 6,000 may be--at best--the minimum number of individuals known at the time of publication. Estimates of minimum numbers of individuals will vary depending on how those numbers are calculated, however. This is discussed in detail in "Archaeology of Human Remains", which is why I referenced it. If you want more detail I can provide it, but it's a fairly complex topic not really suitable to a forum post unfortunately.

Unless Giganto started eating something other than Bamboo, I doubt he made it over here to NA, but I asked way back where the ancestors for Giganto were in Africa. It's a legitimate question, I could really find anything when I googled. But they should be there right? We all came from Africa.

I believe I responded. I may not have seen your response if you made one, and if so I apologize.

Not all hominid species originated in Africa. Some originated after hominids from Africa spread into other parts of the world. The ancestral hominid was from Africa, and the first members of OUR species were African, but that doesn't mean that our sister taxa necessarily arose in Africa. An ecological shift as major as obligate feeding on a new source can certainly result in speciation, particularly if there is some genetic isolation (such as there being a huge distance between them and everyone else).

Think of it this way: My family originated in Ohio. That doesn't prevent my child from being born in California; all that means is that part of my family left Ohio and moved to California. Same with species: hominids arose in Africa, but that doesn't mean all individual species did, merely that the family did. Humans just happen to be one of the species that arose in Africa after the rise of hominids.

 

[Dinwar]

I just wanted to know where all these Hominid fossils you were seeing are.

No, you don't. If you did, you'd have acted like a scientist. That means looking through the papers I linked to, seeing which institutions were involved, and going to them. I TOLD YOU WHERE TO LOOK DAYS AGO. But I accidentally left you an out, and you played that for all it's worth.

 

[GT/CS]

I got the number from the Smithsonian web site, and it wasn't whole skeletons, it was teeth and bits of bones from 6000 individuals. Calvary Cemetery in Queens has 3 million burials to put it in perspective.

Unless Giganto started eating something other than Bamboo, I doubt he made it over here to NA, but I asked way back where the fossil ancestors for Giganto were in Africa. It's a legitimate question, I couldn't really find anything when I googled. But they should be there right? We all came from Africa.

Not sure where the 3 million number came from but according to their website there are fewer than 2 million, and some of those are probably cremations.

A rough rule of thumb is 2,000 burials per acre for double-depth burials and since they have only 365 acres I'm not sure how they get 2 million burials. Even their triple-depth burials won't get them to that number, unless they have a lot of mausoleum crypts.
http://www.calvarycemeteryqueens.com/

 

[Correa Neto]

I got the number from the Smithsonian web site, and it wasn't whole skeletons, it was teeth and bits of bones from 6000 individuals. Calvary Cemetery in Queens has 3 million burials to put it in perspective.

Unless Giganto started eating something other than Bamboo, I doubt he made it over here to NA, but I asked way back where the fossil ancestors for Giganto were in Africa. It's a legitimate question, I couldn't really find anything when I googled. But they should be there right? We all came from Africa.

Gigantopithecus are considered to be close relatives to orang-utangs, so you would have to find some ape that can be an ancestor to African and Asian apes. Oh, and possibly us to... That's quite a way back in time, taking in to account the time frames relevant to the present discussion. I am really not sure where such animal lived.

Two other important things:
1. Gigantopithecus genus was composed by a number of species with different sizes and living across a given time span - not all of thme lived at the same time.
2. No one knows exactly how they looked. There's no accurate way to know it based on a few teeth and bits of jaws. Bigfootery high priests will try to sell a bigfoot-like animal. They are being dishonest. Meh. Great news...

 

[GT/CS]

No, you don't. If you did, you'd have acted like a scientist. That means looking through the papers I linked to, seeing which institutions were involved, and going to them. I TOLD YOU WHERE TO LOOK DAYS AGO. But I accidentally left you an out, and you played that for all it's worth.

Welcome to the bigfooter world!!!!

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

That isn't what you asked.

One will do. In all fairness, I'll also investigate others as time permits and as collection locations are indicated. Museum folk are quite helpful in every contact I've had with them. It's not like I call on a daily basis though. Most are very proud of their collections and happy to assist. I don't think CA museums would be an exception.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

No, you don't. If you did, you'd have acted like a scientist. That means looking through the papers I linked to, seeing which institutions were involved, and going to them. I TOLD YOU WHERE TO LOOK DAYS AGO. But I accidentally left you an out, and you played that for all it's worth.

I'm guessing here but your post seems to indicate I'm not going to find many Hominid specimens there.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Okay this has achieved new levels of farcical even by the low standards set by the Figbooters.

1. Someone (yet again) claims to have a Bigfoot body that the are (yet again) not going to show us now but at some arbitrary point in the future because of... reasons. This is becoming a favored tactical amongst the Figbooters and it's laughable that anyone would continue to even entertain this notion for a second, lest of all actually fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

2. Apparently when someone makes at a statment like "I know for certain Bigfoot exists" in a thread about someone having the body of a Bigfoot, it's somehow "bad form" to actually expect them to even clarify or discuss it further. This is news to me as this seems rather antithetical to the whole concept of a discussion. But the oh so subtle difference between an open and honest discussion and a soapbox eludes some people for some reason.

3. It's illogical bordering on insane to go into a thread and make a big song and dance about how you don't want to talk about something.

4. I have zero idea what a rather out of left field bit of Ken Hovind level reality denial about human evolution has to do with the thread or the price of tea of China, but if you're one is trying to be taken seriously as one that understands the scientific method and/or a claim that you know for certain that an unknown species of animal exists, the whole scale denial of the entire cornerstone of the entire science of biology probably isn't the best way to do that. It's like expecting to be taken seriously as an aerospace engineer and starting off by claiming gravity doesn't exist. If you're making claims of a biological nature and deny evolution, you fail out of the gate and can be dismissed.

So maybe, just maybe try a different tactic then "Take over three threads, make bold false claims, refuse to back them up, and then spout of just monumental levels of absolute falsehoods."

Bob: (Running into a high school math class) "TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FIVE!"
Ted: "Errr why are you interrupting my class? And no it doesn't."
Bob: "I'M NOT HERE TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU!"
Ted: "Errr okay."
Bob: "ALSO I THINK THERE'S A HIDDEN NUMBER BETWEEN 3 AND 4! I CALL IT THOUR!"

 

[Robrob]

I'm guessing here but your post seems to indicate I'm not going to find many Hominid specimens there.

Certainly more than you'll find Bigfoot specimens there.

Or anywhere...

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Okay this has achieved new levels of farcical even by the low standards set by the Figbooters.

1. Someone (yet again) claims to have a Bigfoot body that the are (yet again) not going to show us now but at some arbitrary point in the future because of... reasons. This is becoming a favored tactical amongst the Figbooters and it's laughable that anyone would continue to even entertain this notion for a second, lest of all actually fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

2. Apparently when someone makes at a statment like "I know for certain Bigfoot exists" in a thread about someone having the body of a Bigfoot, it's somehow "bad form" to actually expect them to even clarify or discuss it further. This is news to me as this seems rather antithetical to the whole concept of a discussion. But the oh so subtle difference between an open and honest discussion and a soapbox eludes some people for some reason.

3. It's illogical bordering on insane to go into a thread and make a big song and dance about how you don't want to talk about something.

4. I have zero idea what a rather out of left field bit of Ken Hovind level reality denial about human evolution has to do with the thread or the price of tea of China, but if you're one is trying to be taken seriously as one that understands the scientific method and/or a claim that you know for certain that an unknown species of animal exists, the whole scale denial of the entire cornerstone of the entire science of biology probably isn't the best way to do that. It's like expecting to be taken seriously as an aerospace engineer and starting off by claiming gravity doesn't exist. If you're making claims of a biological nature and deny evolution, you fail out of the gate and can be dismissed.

So maybe, just maybe try a different tactic then "Take over three threads, make bold false claims, refuse to back them up, and then spout of just monumental levels of absolute falsehoods."

Bob: (Running into a high school math class) "TWO PLUS TWO EQUALS FIVE!"
Ted: "Errr why are you interrupting my class? And no it doesn't."
Bob: "I'M NOT HERE TO DISCUSS IT WITH YOU!"
Ted: "Errr okay."
Bob: "ALSO I THINK THERE'S A HIDDEN NUMBER BETWEEN 3 AND 4! I CALL IT THOUR!"

Umm, I think if you actually go back and look. I've been responding, not initiating.......Who took over the threads then? What claims have I made that you will now prove are completely false? Curious.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Certainly more than you'll find Bigfoot specimens there.

Or anywhere...

That's true enough Rob.

 

[Robrob]

That's true enough Rob.

Funny how all the real animals leave skeletons and fossils....

 

[Dinwar]

I'm guessing here but your post seems to indicate I'm not going to find many Hominid specimens there.

See for yourself.

What I'm saying is that if someone told me they needed to call the SBCM to determine the number of hominid fossils they had, I'd laugh at them, tell them to learn the bloody field before trying to act like they're experts, and hang up the phone. You obviously know nothing about how museums work, and therefore anything you have to say on the nature of their collections is irrelevant.

 

[FFed]

Pit of Bones, in Atapuerca Spain. The worlds largest collection of Neanderthal bones. Over 6000 from this one site.

Here is a table with some fossils. Count them if you like but a generous estimate would be maybe 500. You do the table math.

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/...-humans-are-neanderthals-after-all111416.html

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/170746/enlarge

What a silly argument.