Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[JREF2010]

As I alluded to yesterday, I’ve been working on some additional testing records and have identified additional missing egrams.

Electrophoresis plate no. 375 was run on, probably, November 23, and covers a range of 20 of the samples that were amplified in RT-qPCR run no. 549 dated November 23.

These are the first PCR and electrophoresis runs completed after the period covered by the Qubit records (i.e., 11/6 to 11/14).

The following egrams have been suppressed from the records production for electrophoresis plate no. 375:

No. 939, corresponding with Rep. 59b (Kercher’s bra)
No. 944, corresponding with Rep. 59g (Kercher’s bra)
No. 948, corresponding with Rep. 63a (bloody bedsheet)
No. 952, corresponding with Rep. 64d (toilet paper from Kercher desk)

For plate no. 375, there are 12 produced egram, every one of which resulted in a Kercher profile. There are the four suppressed egrams, mentioned above, which in my opinion are likely artifact-ridden uninterpretable profiles. Also, there were 4 samples from the corresponding PCR run that failed to amplify at 50 cycles.

So, to recap:
Plate No. 375 (corresponds with PCR Run 549)
Produced Egrams: 12
Suppressed Egrams: 4 (939, 944, 948, 952)
Samples from PCR run no. 549 that did not amplify: 4

What is the defense hoping to achieve with the egrams?
Missing peaks that would change the profile, I assume.

 

[Welshman]

If Curalto was telling the truth, what exactly was Amanda and Raffaele's role in Meredith's murder if they were standing in the basketball court for two hours? Curalto actually gives Amanda and Raffaele an alibi.

 

[JREF2010]

To think that the best they have are witnesses that are as pathetic as the ones they have is laughable.

Actually if I recall, it was the forensic video, the scene of mis-handling the bra clasp, that really did have the court room laughing.

But it appears the ISC didnt investigate that and probably havent even watched the video.

 

[Diocletus]

What is the defense hoping to achieve with the egrams?
Missing peaks that would change the profile, I assume.

The most innocent reason I can think of for Stefanoni to have suppressed them is that they are disorganized messes, mixtures of various unknown persons. Of course, they could therefore be used to show contamination. After all, where would such a mess of peaks have come from?

 

[GreyFox]

The square due to the traffic and location would not be the ideal place to hear the scream unlike above the car park.

You try to present like there is a patch of woods (MOUNTAINS) or something in between the cottage and the park. Rather than a few tree's. Your just throwing pocket sand here. Hoping to confuse us.

You also give AK and RF grief for there memory while smoking pot. Yet the Junkie's memory while on Heroin is credible ? I don't think so. Like Bill stated.. It was the police making Raf confused during an all night interrogation.

Unlike Curatalo who was under no pressure when he made his Heroin induced statements...Some time later!

Nara's just some old cook who thought she was signing up with the Mignini's Circus for her 15 minutes of fame.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

speculation

The most innocent reason I can think of for Stefanoni to have suppressed them is that they are disorganized messes, mixtures of various unknown persons. Of course, they could therefore be used to show contamination. After all, where would such a mess of peaks have come from?

Suppose a bloodstain on the sheet had Rudy's DNA. That would be something.

 

[GreyFox]

Lordy, Lordy its a fire

If Curalto was telling the truth, what exactly was Amanda and Raffaele's role in Meredith's murder if they were standing in the basketball court for two hours? Curalto actually gives Amanda and Raffaele an alibi.

Not only that... Curatalo didn't hear the scream or see Rudy leaving? Yet if you drink the PMF Koolaid they act like this bum was the gate keeper who had his eyes on the gate the whole time.
He must have been too busy watching the kids argue while reading in the dark to see Rudy leave ? Or didn't notice the people playing basketball. All these witnesses cant be telling the truth ! And we know Rudy wouldn't lie as guilters have vouched for him over and over ! When it's convenient for them anyhow.

 

[GreyFox]

Suppose a bloodstain on the sheet had Rudy's DNA. That would be something.

Can we take bets on the pillow case stain !!! $20 on Herman !

 

[Briars]

IIRC Raffaele made a playlist around 5:30 AM, and no one considers this to be an alibi. The police have shown how much they care about Raffaele's computer activity by destroying the metadata of files such as the last access time of Stardust. They have shown their interest in computer-related information not only by the destruction of the hard drives, but also in their apparent inability to detect the Naruto file. "There is no mention of opening a business media "Naruto episode 101" took place on Thursday 1 November 2007 at 21:26." (see page. 29 in Raffaele's appeal). There is no reason to believe that the police investigated the emails and no reason to believe that they would tell anyone if they did.

That is fantastic news , why didn't his profs come forward and clear up any confusion in case the police thought he spent the night cleaning and staging. Do you think maybe these ignored emails will be part of the new appeal?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

sorry to have to be opaque

That is fantastic news , why didn't his profs come forward and clear up any confusion in case the police thought he spent the night cleaning and staging. Do you think maybe these ignored emails will be part of the new appeal?

I am not certain whether this will be part of the appeal or not. You might be able to guess the answer to your first question by considering how thoroughly the Swiss professor was grilled.

 

[Grinder]

Briars, thanks for allowing us to discuss bad witnesses. I will concede that it is possible that a scream could be heard by Nara and not Curatolo.

Of course, it doesn't matter because that is the last thing on the long list of reasons why his testimony was worthless and should never have been allowed in the trial.

My order from most important to least in regards to why he wasn't cradible.

1. He had the date wrong. Saying that he said it was the night before the discovery is like saying that you know two cars crashed by seeing the aftermath. Of course it had to be the night before or it wasn't of value. He had month to decide how to frame it.

2. He told the police that questioned him he had seen nothing exceptional.

3. He said disco buses were there when that was a night they weren't.

4. His description of the kids was imprecise and by the time he came forward they had been in the news for months.

5. He was high on heroin and said he took it every dat.

6. He had an outstanding charge for drug dealing yet was a welcome witness in his third trial.

7. His timing of the event was too precise for the start time yet imprecise as to when they or if they ever left during his stint in the park.


As for Nara - if her testimony is of any value, which I don't think it is, then the prosecution should have conducted the sound test to see if an air horn set off in Meredith's room could be heard by Nara. Why would they want to prove that her testimony was at least possible?

 

[codyjuneau]

...

As for Nara - if her testimony is of any value, which I don't think it is, then the prosecution should have conducted the sound test to see if an air horn set off in Meredith's room could be heard by Nara. Why would they want to prove that her testimony was at least possible?

.
They should simultaneously measure sound levels of the air horn (or a scream) inside Nara's apartment, and where Curatola claims to have been sitting. Also, if Mignini can afford the extra sound meters with all his budget problems, many of the apartments facing the same way as Nara.

I think maybe osmotic reasoning means solving problems with thought experiments, rather than scientific testing. It certainly allows one more freedom to arrive at a desired conclusion.
.

 

[Briars]

Briars, thanks for allowing us to discuss bad witnesses. I will concede that it is possible that a scream could be heard by Nara and not Curatolo.

Of course, it doesn't matter because that is the last thing on the long list of reasons why his testimony was worthless and should never have been allowed in the trial.

My order from most important to least in regards to why he wasn't cradible.

1. He had the date wrong. Saying that he said it was the night before the discovery is like saying that you know two cars crashed by seeing the aftermath. Of course it had to be the night before or it wasn't of value. He had month to decide how to frame it.

2. He told the police that questioned him he had seen nothing exceptional.

3. He said disco buses were there when that was a night they weren't.

4. His description of the kids was imprecise and by the time he came forward they had been in the news for months.

5. He was high on heroin and said he took it every dat.

6. He had an outstanding charge for drug dealing yet was a welcome witness in his third trial.

7. His timing of the event was too precise for the start time yet imprecise as to when they or if they ever left during his stint in the park.


As for Nara - if her testimony is of any value, which I don't think it is, then the prosecution should have conducted the sound test to see if an air horn set off in Meredith's room could be heard by Nara. Why would they want to prove that her testimony was at least possible?

Couples don't hang out in that park , There are people shooting hoops and maybe some people looking for or selling drugs, It is atypical of an Italian piazza ,dusty grungy and no nice stonework. Most important there is no view from the rail and no reason for a couple to keep looking over it. Nor is there a reason to spend time and return on the same night. Curatolo gave a natural account he didn't say they came and went he simply noticed them at different times.

 

[Bill Williams]

Couples don't hang out in that park , There are people shooting hoops and maybe some people looking for or selling drugs, It is atypical of an Italian piazza ,dusty grungy and no nice stonework. Most important there is no view from the rail and no reason for a couple to keep looking over it. Nor is there a reason to spend time and return on the same night. Curatolo gave a natural account he didn't say they came and went he simply noticed them at different times.

This is patently not the whole story.

Curatolo did not say he saw them when first interviewed. In my opinion it was months later, when the PLE reminded him that he had outstanding drug charges, that he suddenly remembered all this.

What is the agenda for wanting to make an unreliable witness a reliable one?

 

[Bill Williams]

Couples don't hang out in that park , There are people shooting hoops and maybe some people looking for or selling drugs, It is atypical of an Italian piazza ,dusty grungy and no nice stonework. Most important there is no view from the rail and no reason for a couple to keep looking over it. Nor is there a reason to spend time and return on the same night. Curatolo gave a natural account he didn't say they came and went he simply noticed them at different times.

Is there ANYONE who did not change their story once the police got ahold of them? Maybe Nara... but Nara made her first comments on TV, and police were claiming they knew what she was saying BEFORE interviewing her but seeing her on TV.

Knox, Sollecito, Lumumba, Guede, Curatolo, Quintavalle.... they ALL changed their stories, only as a result of contact with the PLE. The unique thing about Knox and Sollecito is that they changed their stories back to what they'd said all along once they had lawyers. They have not changed since.

Why is it that people change their stories when the PLE gets a hold of them..... makes you go, "hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"?

 

[Briars]

This is patently not the whole story.

Curatolo did not say he saw them when first interviewed. In my opinion it was months later, when the PLE reminded him that he had outstanding drug charges, that he suddenly remembered all this.

What is the agenda for wanting to make an unreliable witness a reliable one?

If he wanted to lie he could have said he looked over the rail and saw a couple by the gate, His story is believable , especially because he didn't embellish the facts and say they left in a hurry and came back or something like that. His bench is near the rail where a couple looked out at what? A news reporter encouraged him to come forward not the PLE.

 

[Bill Williams]

If he wanted to lie he could have said he looked over the rail and saw a couple by the gate, His story is believable , especially because he didn't embellish the facts and say they left in a hurry and came back or something like that. His bench is near the rail where a couple looked out at what? A news reporter encouraged him to come forward not the PLE.

Which story is believable? His first one which was that he saw nothing? Or his second one which included disco buses and people in Hallowe'en costume?

I agree. I find his story totally believable. His first one. Why do you listen to stories which are a result of the PLE getting them to change them to suit their theory, like they did with Knox, Sollecito, Quintavalle, Lumumba and Guede?

 

[RandyN]

Briars, thanks for allowing us to discuss bad witnesses. I will concede that it is possible that a scream could be heard by Nara and not Curatolo.

Of course, it doesn't matter because that is the last thing on the long list of reasons why his testimony was worthless and should never have been allowed in the trial.

My order from most important to least in regards to why he wasn't cradible.

1. He had the date wrong. Saying that he said it was the night before the discovery is like saying that you know two cars crashed by seeing the aftermath. Of course it had to be the night before or it wasn't of value. He had month to decide how to frame it.

2. He told the police that questioned him he had seen nothing exceptional.

3. He said disco buses were there when that was a night they weren't.

4. His description of the kids was imprecise and by the time he came forward they had been in the news for months.

5. He was high on heroin and said he took it every dat.

6. He had an outstanding charge for drug dealing yet was a welcome witness in his third trial.

7. His timing of the event was too precise for the start time yet imprecise as to when they or if they ever left during his stint in the park.


As for Nara - if her testimony is of any value, which I don't think it is, then the prosecution should have conducted the sound test to see if an air horn set off in Meredith's room could be heard by Nara. Why would they want to prove that her testimony was at least possible?

The prosecution test its own Super-witness? Good one. Kinda like they have Quintinvale who the police claim told them a few days after the murder that he saw or heard nothing...nor did any of his employees. And yet a year later the prosecution puts Quintinvale on and he contradicts his original contention but they also ignore (somehow) the police who still claim that Quintinvale said he saw and heard nothing. So...who is lying? The police or Quintinvale have to be lying in court. Why did Mignini not file charges against one or the other? Corruption would be my guess.

Nara did the same thing that Toto did. She got the days wrong. She claimed that the morning of the discovery of the body she read about it in the paper that morning. Problem was the body was not discovered yet. This type of BS was ignored by the prosecution but not used to discredit the prosecution witnesses by the defense. So one is dishonest and the other is stupid IMHO.

6 years later these 3 idiots will still be heard from...well not Toto but I bet they roll out his statements. And frankly his statements will be more effective with him dead...that way the jury wont get to see how woo he actually is...was.

I see that the court has been decided. According to Pervert...every "doctor" in Italy will be there. What a farce.

 

[RandyN]

You believe his account of the time? Maybe he was trying to distance himself knowing he'd been seen bumping into a witness near the stairs, knowing the real time of the murder.

So...you mean that RG said 9:30 to throw off the actual time he killed Miss Kercher? That was when? According to Mignini the TOD was what? 11PM? So Guede said 9:30 because he bumped into a witness who may have seen him...and then what? He returned to take a dump? Did he run to get a condom? In any case he returned and killed her at 11 PM although we have no idea what time Nara heard a "scream" ...it actually is impossible to be during the time the broken down car people were there right? So how exactly does that scream fit the facts? After the tow truck left?

Why didnt MK recall her mom? Why did she play with her phone but not call her mom? Did she take a walk to Lanas at 10 pm so as to ping the local tower? And then return to be killed?

How did the pizza and apple crumble stay in her stomach...digestion never beginning so that nothing even began to pass into the duodenum? Stress? I have heard of people having the crap scared out of them...probably an old wives tale. But digestion stopping for hours beyond any published bell curve?? Impossible.

The scream was at 9:30 just like Guede stated. The reason was that was when he was killing her by cutting open her throat. No screams after that...a bit of wheezing perhaps...some violent coughs in an attempt to clear blood from her lungs is apparent by the blood spray patterns.

9:15 - 9:30 at the latest! In fact since she arrived home at 9:04 according to the time corrected car lot video she may well have been dead by 9:10.

That would fit the facts in this case so far.

Why believe Guede about the scream? Good liars try to keep as many actual circumstances factual so that they are not required to remember an abundance false data.

The real evidence and the circumstantial evidence prove beyond all doubt that the TOD was before 9:30 PM! Hopefully the defense will not be led down the wrong scientific path on this irrefutable evidence this time.

 

[GreyFox]

Couples don't hang out in that park , There are people shooting hoops and maybe some people looking for or selling drugs, It is atypical of an Italian piazza ,dusty grungy and no nice stonework. Most important there is no view from the rail and no reason for a couple to keep looking over it. Nor is there a reason to spend time and return on the same night. Curatolo gave a natural account he didn't say they came and went he simply noticed them at different times.

You said it. They stay home and.....