Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Briars]

Except that Hallowe'en in 2007 was on a Wednesday. What have Friday 29 October and Saturday 30 October in an unspecified year got to do with a murder that happened on Thursday 1 November 2007?

November 2 there were no classes due to the holiday an extra day to party.

 

[Briars]

What about the scream described by Rudy Guede at around 9:20 - 9:30? Is this thing on?

You believe his account of the time? Maybe he was trying to distance himself knowing he'd been seen bumping into a witness near the stairs, knowing the real time of the murder.

 

[Briars]

Hey JREF2010,
Wonder if anyone outside heard the scream?

IIRC,
Rudy Guede said that he saw alotta people out+about and people playing basketball when he left Meredith's flat, right?

Yep,
he does mention it, page 4 from his German prison diary:



But Frank Sfarzo, in an interview with Curatolo from April 2008, writes this:
By the way, about the facts, what Antonio Curatolo told me is that that night he didn't see anyone at the basketball court


Wasn't Antonio Curatolo outside by the time Rudy Guede left Meredith to die alone in her bedroom so he could hit the nightclubs?
Was there or was there not anyone playing ball that night?
No one outside heard the scream?

The square due to the traffic and location would not be the ideal place to hear the scream unlike above the car park.

 

[Briars]

Except in Italy where Nov 1 is All Saints Day, where families traditionally take flowers to graves.... and it is a holiday which eclipses Hallowe'en....

Once again, a post that tries to skew things towards guilt....

It was a holiday , people no longer believe the spirits rise that day , clubs were open Rudy went dancing to create an alibi.

 

[Bill Williams]

It was a holiday , people no longer believe the spirits rise that day , clubs were open Rudy went dancing to create an alibi.

They should probably then get you to testify at the Florence trial as an expert in Italian culture. Not to mention as an expert in echolocation. I'm going to have to start reading at the PMF sites so as to round out my own education as well.

 

[Grinder]

Can you say there were none? In my city people are in costume for up to three nights depending when Halloween falls.

It is obvious that he is describing Halloween night when he put together the story in his mind, which is the only place Amanda and Raf were together in the plaza as described. As many a story teller they like to make them more interesting and when people make things up they think more detail makes the story seem true.

While it may be true that some people have parties on the weekend and dress up if Halloween is Weds. very few if any people are dressed up on Thursday the day Curatolo story occurred, especially on a holiday for the dead.

Why don't you test the basics of this on some acquaintances? Tell them someone that smoked opium every day came forward months after a crime and described the scene as it was the night before crime, not as it was the night of the crime. Let them know that his original story had the suspects in his sight during the time was occurring and verified knowing the exact time by showing the court his watch, but the time was adjusted based on bus times but the buses weren't there that night. Tell them he knew nothing that he couldn't have read in the papers in the months he waited to come forward. Mention that he lived in the plaza and that he had been a witness in two other serious cases. Then tell them that as the appeal approached the prosecutor brought him for drug dealing charges that were by that time 8 years old and because of being in jail he couldn't be interviewed by the media. Mention that he was the only person that saw the kids that night and video surveillance didn't have them all night.

After that ask if they think this is a witness that should be considered.

 

[Grinder]

I saw Steve Moore and his sound test in the apartment above Nara. Hardly scientific,though he did admit to hearing someone walking outside, Too bad he didn't ask them to scream loudly.

No you didn't because it wasn't Steve.

 

[Grinder]

Her window faced the valley a prolonged scream was heard by two witnesses. I hear through glass windows no problem. I can hear my neighbor playing trumpet in the winter.

She was not awakened by a scream as per Massei. I never said hearing anything inside her house was impossible but since Meredith's scream would have been from inside the cottage it is highly unlikely anything come be heard but certainly by the time the sound waves reached her it would be the horrific noise she described to the TV people. She doesn't know the time even if she did hear something and she said she heard the next morning about the murder, which would have been impossible.

The defense requested a noise test but the court refused.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Amanda was induced to say that she covered her ears. Not much of a witness IMO.

 

[Bill Williams]

It is obvious that he is describing Halloween night when he put together the story in his mind, which is the only place Amanda and Raf were together in the plaza as described. As many a story teller they like to make them more interesting and when people make things up they think more detail makes the story seem true.

Now you're criticizing MY hobbies!

 

[Grinder]

Amanda was induced to say that she covered her ears. Not much of a witness IMO.

And Antonella Monacchia said she heard a couple arguing in Italian before the scream. Maybe the car owners and the tow truck driver over his charges and then the mechanism squealed when he hoisted the car. She also forgot the time and to call the police at the time.

Now you're criticizing MY hobbies!

No, I was criticizing true crime novelists

 

[Bill Williams]

Now you're criticizing MY hobbies!

No, I was criticizing true crime novelists

"Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."

 

[Skind]

It was a holiday , people no longer believe the spirits rise that day , clubs were open Rudy went dancing to create an alibi.

But the ones that ran the disco buses said they weren't running that night.

Curotalo can't have seen the disco buses, ergo, his witness statement cannot be true.

 

[Skind]

It was a holiday , people no longer believe the spirits rise that day , clubs were open Rudy went dancing to create an alibi.

So, who else out of all these people milling about saw a couple hanging around the park?

 

[Skind]

November 2 there were no classes due to the holiday an extra day to party.

Not according to the people that live there.

Had there been an anticipated demand for partying due to the extra holiday, the big nightclubs would be looking to open, and there would have been disco buses.

They weren't open (the smaller in town ones were, but thursday openings is typical for in-town clubs) and weren't running buses.

It seems you think you know more about the local party scene than several succesful business owners in the area.

You're still failing to recognise that Halloween is not as big in Italy as it is in UK/US and that the following day(s) are traditionally sombre affairs.

 

[Briars]

No you didn't because it wasn't Steve.

My mistake Paul Ciolino made the un scientific video, He hears something through the closed window, maybe footsteps he says. Nara had opened her window after the scream and heard running. A harrowing loud scream is more like a siren compared to running.

 

[Briars]

So, who else out of all these people milling about saw a couple hanging around the park?

The park is not a busy place at night A couple of people busy with their game maybe or the odd drug dealer, Its not an inviting place to go for just social reasons.

 

[Briars]

It is obvious that he is describing Halloween night when he put together the story in his mind, which is the only place Amanda and Raf were together in the plaza as described. As many a story teller they like to make them more interesting and when people make things up they think more detail makes the story seem true.

While it may be true that some people have parties on the weekend and dress up if Halloween is Weds. very few if any people are dressed up on Thursday the day Curatolo story occurred, especially on a holiday for the dead.

Why don't you test the basics of this on some acquaintances? Tell them someone that smoked opium every day came forward months after a crime and described the scene as it was the night before crime, not as it was the night of the crime. Let them know that his original story had the suspects in his sight during the time was occurring and verified knowing the exact time by showing the court his watch, but the time was adjusted based on bus times but the buses weren't there that night. Tell them he knew nothing that he couldn't have read in the papers in the months he waited to come forward. Mention that he lived in the plaza and that he had been a witness in two other serious cases. Then tell them that as the appeal approached the prosecutor brought him for drug dealing charges that were by that time 8 years old and because of being in jail he couldn't be interviewed by the media. Mention that he was the only person that saw the kids that night and video surveillance didn't have them all night.

After that ask if they think this is a witness that should be considered.

Does Heroin have the same kind of effect that the defendants claim pot did on their memory? Out of the two Sollecito claimed to be completely confused as to which night investigators were talking about. The night before when the murder happened!! He wanted a calender, the night when Amanda went out. Seriously you worry about habitual noise like buses and forgetting that but you have no problem with lies like sent emails. You fret that Nara didn't look at her watch but Amanda stretched her dinner to hours later. Forgetting so much like calling her mother, not telling Filomena she had tried Meredith. Pretty powerful drugs which kept them confused for days.

 

[Briars]

But the ones that ran the disco buses said they weren't running that night.

Curotalo can't have seen the disco buses, ergo, his witness statement cannot be true.

Curatolo may have thought the buses were running and not remembered correctly as they were there every week just like he was , accustomed noise loses its ability to stand out. The defendants were not there on Halloween, he saw the men in white for the first time the day after, more important. He may have seen a few students in costume on the Nov 1 attending a local party.

 

[JREF2010]

Curatolo may have thought the buses were running and not remembered correctly as they were there every week just like he was , accustomed noise loses its ability to stand out. The defendants were not there on Halloween, he saw the men in white for the first time the day after, more important. He may have seen a few students in costume on the Nov 1 attending a local party.

He was on heroin, he has no one to corroborate his tale of seeing things in the dark. No one knows his ability to provide details of his vision. He is likely another whacko like the other delusional drug induced bum who claimed to have had lunch with Amandas uncle.

We have two college kids, with a clean record saying they were home, and a heroin bum saying he saw them in the dark over in his bench, while the witness admits to being on heroin during that timeframe.
Which is more credible?
I find it amazing some choose the Heroin addict bum as the credible one.