Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Mary_H]

Stick to your sad position if it helps you. Repeat yourself as you do. I spoke up and as far as I'm concerned you can twist and attack someones beliefs to try to discredit their great reporting. It's not going to work and it just makes you look bad.

On the one hand, Briars, you make a good point. If someone is a good reporter, then maybe their personal characteristics and their history should be overlooked.

On the other hand, whether their particular relationship to Prosecutor Mignini should be overlooked, I'm not so sure. Frank Sfarzo knows Mignini in this life. Ergon, though, knew him in the distant past.

Advantage, Ergon.

(Ergon on PMF.net) Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: MY VISIT TO PERUGIA

I have a short meeting with PM Mignini. Directed to his new office, I meet him coming down the escalators to meet me; in a few minutes I'd have missed him. We discuss the MOF case, and I wish him all the best at Cassazione. The next day, he has won a stunning victory, completely vindicated, and he is now on a fast track to becoming the chief prosecutor of the province of Umbria. Interesting, he shares the same interest in Gnosticism as me. We will keep in touch. I tell him I'll be in Rome myself the next week to witness what will come of the prosecution's appeal of the Knox-Sollecito acquittals. I have met him before; a friend from previous lives, and I have made many friends here, many friends going back to Etruscan times.

 

[Bill Williams]

On the one hand, Briars, you make a good point. If someone is a good reporter, then maybe their personal characteristics and their history should be overlooked.

On the other hand, whether their particular relationship to Prosecutor Mignini should be overlooked, I'm not so sure. Frank Sfarzo knows Mignini in this life. Ergon, though, knew him in the distant past.

Advantage, Ergon.

(Ergon on PMF.net) Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:06 pm Post subject: MY VISIT TO PERUGIA

I have a short meeting with PM Mignini. Directed to his new office, I meet him coming down the escalators to meet me; in a few minutes I'd have missed him. We discuss the MOF case, and I wish him all the best at Cassazione. The next day, he has won a stunning victory, completely vindicated, and he is now on a fast track to becoming the chief prosecutor of the province of Umbria. Interesting, he shares the same interest in Gnosticism as me. We will keep in touch. I tell him I'll be in Rome myself the next week to witness what will come of the prosecution's appeal of the Knox-Sollecito acquittals. I have met him before; a friend from previous lives, and I have made many friends here, many friends going back to Etruscan times.

Thanks for posting this, Mary_H. I now formally concede the point to Briars.

Dr. Mignini and Ergon have met long before this tragic case ever was conceived.

Game, set, match to Briars.

 

[Mary_H]

What Amanda and Raffaele did or did not do in the cottage prior to the discovery of Meredith's have been used by the prosecution and PGP as signs that Amanda and Raffaele were guilty. This is an issue I raised in the IIP forum which was if Amanda and Raffaele were guilty why did they return to the cottage the next morning and report suspicous findings to the police? Lets assume Amanda and Raffaele had killed Meredith. They are going to be in a state of extreme panic and agitation and are terrified they are going to be caught. If they go to the cottage the next morning and call the police, would they not worry that would appear tense and nervous to the the police? Would Amanda and Raffaele not worry they will slip up and say the wrong things to the police which is precisely what Amanda and Raffaele have been accused of doing eg saying nothing had been stolen, what Raffaele said in his phone call. Would Amanda and Raffaele not want to avoid contact with the police if they had killed someone just the previous evening? Amanda and Raffaele were supposed to have killed Meredith together. Is it credible that both of them would agree to return to the cottage especially as they had only been dating six days?

Your observations are all sensible and accurate, Welshman. I think any number of people first come to the debate with the recognition that the lack of DNA and other evidence at the scene clearly shows the defendants were not and could not have been involved in the crime.

End of discussion? Not so fast. To paraphrase Shakespeare, "The debate's the thing."

 

[Briars]

On the one hand, Briars, you make a good point. If someone is a good reporter, then maybe their personal characteristics and their history should be overlooked.

On the other hand, whether their particular relationship to Prosecutor Mignini should be overlooked, I'm not so sure. Frank Sfarzo knows Mignini in this life. Ergon, though, knew him in the distant past.

Advantage, Ergon.

What is your point Mary many religions believe in past lives many people believe there is an order to life's events. John Kercher believed his daughter sent white feathers. If you do not like that side of Ergon don't read it, it doesn't interfere with his factual reporting .You have absolutely no business mocking it, Bill should be delivering this sermon but must be wearing a different hat on line.

 

[Grinder]

What is your point Mary many religions believe in past lives many people believe there is an order to life's events. John Kercher believed his daughter sent white feathers. If you do not like that side of Ergon don't read it, it doesn't interfere with his factual reporting .You have absolutely no business mocking it, Bill should be delivering this sermon but must be wearing a different hat on line.

What reporting? That he emailed with Mignini or that he knew him in a previous life? The 112 recording isn't new.

I think people that think they are god or the messiah et al. are mentally disturbed and their "reporting" can rightfully be questioned as they clearly have issues with reality.

If Mignini is feeding such a person with official evidence that hasn't been made public that brings question to his judgment and character.

Btw, I also believe that Frank has diminished his standing as a reliable reporter.

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Both sites are eager for the translation of the SC Monday. I believe that is the work of .org. Hard to imagine people unlikely to ever meet to welcome news from either site is it? Entertain yourself nonsense along with Bill.

Ergon seems to think I wrote my recent article as a distraction because he just posted up recordings to phone calls and the translation of the SC is almost done.

Is it possible that I wrote the article because Ergon posted an email from Mignini? That seems more logical to me.

Ergon is celebrating the fact that he has the phone recordings. I am not sure why, it's not new. He was thrilled when a member of our group requested that we put the recordings on our server so they didn't have to visit a hate site. We were happy to. The recordings are now on Injustice in Perugia. I would thank Ergon for them but I would rather thank his source. Wonder who that was? Doesn't matter I guess.

The translation is nothing to dance about either. We already know what it says.

Do you happen to know Ergon personally? Just curious. Did you know that he causes natural disasters? I was pretty impressed when I heard it. One day he is fighting for Meredith, the next, he is wiping out a resort in Thailand. How does he find the time?

 

[Dan O.]

The cop assumes the blood is from a cut , Sollecito tells the story in sequence there is a broken window , a mess, blood in the bathroom and a locked door, Naturally the cop assumes the blood is from a glass injury. When the second call resumes cop says so they broke the window then went into the bathroom, Sollecito no no I don't know.Why have a problem right there when the assumption was the blood was from the perp's cut? You would think Sollecito would have absolutely no reason to interject right there regarding the timing of the blood deposit.

Raffaele gave a list of elements. The cop assumed that the list was of chronological events. Rafaele recognized the cops mistake and corrected him.

What's the problem?

 

[Dan O.]

Both calls are recorded and available on PMF.net in Italian and English. I'm not aware or any other call , In the first recorded call Sollecito gives the address for the first time describes the scene and says there was no theft.

Before the two recorded calls to 112, at 12:50, Rafaelle made another call to a specific police officer. It's well known and documented. Perhaps it had slipped your mind.

 

[Mary_H]

What is your point Mary many religions believe in past lives many people believe there is an order to life's events. John Kercher believed his daughter sent white feathers. If you do not like that side of Ergon don't read it, it doesn't interfere with his factual reporting .You have absolutely no business mocking it, Bill should be delivering this sermon but must be wearing a different hat on line.

I don't recall saying I didn't like it, nor do I recall mocking it. I posted it verbatim. Perhaps the mocking is in the eye of the beholder.

I was trying to point out that both journalists, Frank and Ergon, have reason to be biased when it comes to Mignini.

 

[Briars]

Ergon seems to think I wrote my recent article as a distraction because he just posted up recordings to phone calls and the translation of the SC is almost done.

Is it possible that I wrote the article because Ergon posted an email from Mignini? That seems more logical to me.

Ergon is celebrating the fact that he has the phone recordings. I am not sure why, it's not new. He was thrilled when a member of our group requested that we put the recordings on our server so they didn't have to visit a hate site. We were happy to. The recordings are now on Injustice in Perugia. I would thank Ergon for them but I would rather thank his source. Wonder who that was? Doesn't matter I guess.

The translation is nothing to dance about either. We already know what it says.

Do you happen to know Ergon personally? Just curious. Did you know that he causes natural disasters? I was pretty impressed when I heard it. One day he is fighting for Meredith, the next, he is wiping out a resort in Thailand. How does he find the time?

Know him personally no nor do I need to. I speak up when the Kercher's are bashed here as well. I was offended with the comments towards Toto. There is something wrong about mocking someone's faith , race or position in life. It seemed obvious to me that Ergon was someone you wanted to discredit, which translates that the message , not the spiritual one, was somehow threatening.

 

[Briars]

I don't recall saying I didn't like it, nor do I recall mocking it. I posted it verbatim. Perhaps the mocking is in the eye of the beholder.

I was trying to point out that both journalists, Frank and Ergon, have reason to be biased when it comes to Mignini.

Sorry Mary if I read your distant past comment wrong?

 

[Briars]

Before the two recorded calls to 112, at 12:50, Rafaelle made another call to a specific police officer. It's well known and documented. Perhaps it had slipped your mind.

What was said , did he give details such as the address , what is documented? It didn't slip my mind I wasn't aware of it please share if its not too much trouble.

 

[davefoc]

What was said , did he give details such as the address , what is documented? It didn't slip my mind I wasn't aware of it please share if its not too much trouble.

I think he is referring to the fact that Solecito called his sister who was a policeman at the time before he made the other calls to the police.

 

[Skind]

When the second call resumes cop says so they broke the window then went into the bathroom, Sollecito no no I don't know.Why have a problem right there when the assumption was the blood was from the perp's cut?

The thing you've missed out on is rather simple - the cops weren't at the scene and Sollecito was. They were making a second and third unwarranted assumption that was not supported by anything Sollecito had said.

The assumption that the blood was from the cut would be supported by a tell-tale trail of blood leading from the room to the bathroom. It would also be supported by blood in and around the ransacked room - even more so if there was no sign that the person bandaged themselves as they'd be no way for them to prevent blood smearing everywhere when they ransacked the room.

The assumption that the blood was from a glass cut is entirely unwarranted, and actually quite disturbing given that it was from the cops and not Sollecito.

Once you realise the scene looked entirely different to what an inexperienced young man would expect if the burglar had cut themselves getting in, Sollecito's difficulty with answering the question stops becoming suspicious and starts becoming obvious.

 

[Dan O.]

What was said , did he give details such as the address , what is documented? It didn't slip my mind I wasn't aware of it please share if its not too much trouble.

We know only that it was a short call, 39 seconds, and that she told him: don't touch anything, get out and call 112. I don't know what else was said but obviously Raffaele would have told her the short version of what he knew which most likely would include the open door, the broken window the blood in the bath. The natural question to ask upon hearing of a breakin is "Was anything stolen". Can this all take place in 39 seconds? I don't see why not.

I think he is referring to the fact that Solecito called his sister who was a policeman at the time before he made the other calls to the police.

It's nice to know that some people are paying attention.

 

[RandyN]

Both sites are eager for the translation of the SC Monday. I believe that is the work of .org. Hard to imagine people unlikely to ever meet to welcome news from either site is it? Entertain yourself nonsense along with Bill.

Whats this translation of the SC idiocy Monday? We have had it translated for weeks if not months. Or is it that the PGP version will be translated Monday?
LOL

Ergon who is a member here has his own web site. On it he claims to be the Messiah...Jesus and God. He tells stories about killing people with his mind and having the ability to control the weather.

Ergon also claims to have been in contact with Mignini... who in no way qualifies as or should be referred to as a Doctor, as in Dr Mignini...that is a lie. Italy may wish to call pigs as saints...but that wish cant change the status of the pig.

The fact that Mignini and Ergon have a relationship says more than enough. As confirmation Mignini also had a relationship with a nutty spiritualist who channeled a dead priest...her name was Carlizzi.

This topic of RS calls to police is old old old...what is news about this? I have heard these recordings at least 4 years ago. RS phones police...and gives random minor details. Nothing suspicious or nefarious about them...especially if you claim to be God!

Ergon whos real name is known is also an astrologist...which seems an odd interest for God to be involved with...or is that just me?

Look this is turning into too much of a freak show to waste any more honest topic time on. Briars is free to believe in and honor any God she wishes...I happen to find it disturbing to do so in this thread if she wishes to do that in a serious manor. I happen to think someone claiming to be Jesus is nuts! And if it is true that this "God" and the prosecutor share case details then that should be investigated because it is improper, corrupt, and crazy...but then again it fits into the legal case that Mignini has made so far...so maybe that is the way Italy does things...

I hope that Ergon comes here and explains his reasoning for claiming to be God. I suggest he do so on his own thread though...which should be obvious.
A link has been provided that leads to Ergons site...his name is Nasser something or another...if you have a child suffering from Autism I hear he has a cure...10 or 20 thousand IIRC. wwooooooooooo........

 

[Bruce Fischer]

Know him personally no nor do I need to. I speak up when the Kercher's are bashed here as well. I was offended with the comments towards Toto. There is something wrong about mocking someone's faith , race or position in life. It seemed obvious to me that Ergon was someone you wanted to discredit, which translates that the message , not the spiritual one, was somehow threatening.

I am not mocking Ergon's faith. I am challenging his claims. Ergon does not claim to believe in a certain religion. I claims to be God. Sadly, some people believe him. Sadly, some people look to him for help in their lives because they believe he is God.

Claiming to cause natural disasters in order to keep the world in line is not faith, Briars. It's a ridiculous claim. I encourage everyone to go and read Ergon's (Naseer's) blog "Man from Atlan." He is proud of his blog and acknowledges that he is indeed Naseer, so I am not outing anyone here. Any right minded person that reads Ergon's blog will see that he's a fraud.

When Ergon isn't preaching to his disciples, he runs an anti-Amanda Knox hate site. Now we have confirmation that he has met with Mignini in Italy and has exchanged emails with him. If Ergon introduced himself as a "reporter" for Perugia Murder File, Mignini should have ended the conversation right there. Mignini is currently involved in legal matters with Amanda Knox. He should not be feeding information to an anti-Amanda Knox website.

It should be investigated.

 

[Mary_H]

Sorry Mary if I read your distant past comment wrong?

Not sure what you're driving at, Briars. Ergon implied he knew Mignini in Etruscan times, which is about 3,000 years ago. That seems like the distant past to me.

To be perfectly honest, of course, you were right that I was mocking Ergon by posting what he had written. Usually I am not given to making fun of people's religious beliefs, and I do apologize if it offended you.

I think the point we are trying to make with Ergon is that there is a time and a place for everything. Religion is fine in the context of religion, but it is not fine in the context of modern law. If it had not been for PM Mignini's beliefs in the possibilities of occult, sexually ritualistic murders, this case never would have gotten off the ground.

When people's lives are at stake, we need to utilize empirical evidence and logical reasoning, not unproven or unfounded approaches like psychic phenomena, astrology or even Catholicism.

 

[Mary_H]

Know him personally no nor do I need to. I speak up when the Kercher's are bashed here as well. I was offended with the comments towards Toto. There is something wrong about mocking someone's faith , race or position in life. It seemed obvious to me that Ergon was someone you wanted to discredit, which translates that the message , not the spiritual one, was somehow threatening.

Now you're playing the homeless card, in much the same way people play the race card.

Toto wasn't down on his luck or helpless; he chose to be homeless. It was a lifestyle he embraced for at least 10 years, because it worked well for his association with drugs, both as a user and as a dealer. Nobody's picking on him.

We all use whatever we can to discredit the prosecution witnesses, just as the PGP do in order to discredit the defense witnesses. It's what we do.

 

[Bill Williams]

When people's lives are at stake, we need to utilize empirical evidence and logical reasoning, not unproven or unfounded approaches like psychic phenomena, astrology or even Catholicism.

Religion might play a role in the fashioning of laws. For instance, one can probably draw a fairly short line between "Thou shalt not kill," to laws in countries which apply penalties to killings which are seen as homicides.

But the place where religion has NO role is in the administration of those laws. Courts do no deem people good or evil, they deem whether or not someone did what they were alleged to have done. And the presumption is that someone else has to prove that they did it, not that they are good or evil. When the accuser leads with religion, they probably have no case in law.

When religion is mixed in with the administration of law, that's when history has proven what a disaster that is. That's where we get dictates like testing to see if a woman is a witch by throwing her in the water to see if she floats.

Ergon has the right to believe what he believes, and if I've participated in mocking his beliefs here I apologize. Yet he shows why, using astrology, Amanda and Raffaele were ripe to be killers. And as Bruce says, his webpage says that he causes natural disasters to keep the world in line. To me, that speaks to his ability to discern justice in cases like this.

Is this totally unconnected to his brags that he gets personal emails from Dr. Mignini, that a PMF English-version of the ISC motivations is coming out, and that .NET has made a coup of sorts by releasing transcripts of 6 year old 112 calls?

Not to mention that Ergon says he plans a slow release of material from a stolen thumb-drive. What kind of God steals thumb drives? All this speaks to someone's ability to discern things.

What has always baffled me about Briars' reaction to these posts is the comment that we're "twisting things" when we merely say what he says about himself. I truly find that part mystifying.