New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

[Robrob]

You're not following the arguments. FBI sent the pellets to a lab and found they consisted "mostly of aluminum with traces of titanium, zirconium, cerium and barium". Those components in the proportions found are identical to US missile warhead incendiary shrapnel.

Bull ****.

You can't even explain why pellets of any kind would be found in the victim's bodies from a fuel tank explosion.

Because a 747 contains those metals?

FBI never challenged any of this in Sephton vs FBI. They just said they lost the documents.

Link or quote to document your claim?

Your input shows a lack of understanding of the case.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but your argument seems to be based on you continually repeating claims which have either been proven factually wrong (imaginary metal pellets) or assertions without factual basis (lost imaginary FBI documents, imaginary sub captains).

 

[JayUtah]

Boston Appeals Court Overrules Lower Court TWA 800 Decision

If this hasn't already been covered, Jetblast's post is simply lifted unattributed from http://flight800.org/pr_rel_11_03.htm , which appears to simply be Sephton's own summary of the findings. The link that Jetblast redacts is the link I gave above to the ruling itself, http://flight800.org/ruling_10_24_03.htm , which confirms that the court held the FBI conducted an adequate search. Sephton improperly labels this as a "transcript," whereas a transcript would normally be the on-record proceedings of the trial.

 

[beachnut]

BOEING RESPONDS TO FBI REPORT
7/10/02 | John E. Fiorentino

Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:42:12 AM by JohnFiorentino

*It is worthy to note that these "spheres" were recovered from the corpses of some TWA800 victims at autopsy) ...Authors note*

(FBI report from Brookhaven National Labs, 1997) (excerpts)

This item, one of 20 similar pieces.........was approx. 5mm in diameter and charcoal colored. The item was polished and then subjected to an energy dispersive spectrometer (EDS) analysis to determine its chemical composition.

Small charcoal colored particles (1 of -20 similar pieces) measuring ~5mm in diameter. On polishing the sample was orange colored and transparent.

SEM analysis indicated the material was multi-phase having a base matrix containing Al and Ti. The sample showed significant charging under the electron beam indicating that it is a very poor conductor - i.e.., not metallic. Three other distinct areas could be observed, two were similar to the matrix but contained significant amounts of Zr, the other was mostly Al with Ca, Ba and Ce.

...
Thanks! You guys are losing this badly.

LOL, you got a piece of titanium alloy, exactly what is in a jet engine. Oops, you failed again, quote-mining BS stuff, but missing the reality.

Good job, you have officially graduated from Google Woo University, this 4th say of September, 2013. This is an honor which makes you uniquely qualified to fall for woo, no matter how stupid it is. Good job, be all you can be, google it.

What you have is made up stuff, mixed with BS. You have no pellets, you have BS about the pellets. Ti is from the engine, and Al is from the aircraft. The trace elements are used for paint and more.

You failed to source your stuff again, you posted stuff you copied from other sources, not an original source. But you are winning, soon you will declare victory and leave.

 

[JayUtah]

BOEING RESPONDS TO FBI REPORT
7/10/02 | John E. Fiorentino

I.e., you frantically Googled for something on a conspiracy web site and quoted it here verbatim without attribution.

(redacted) Associate Technical Fellow Service Engineering The Boeing Company

In other words, the actual name of the person at Boeing is redacted so that your critics have no way to tell whether this actually came from Boeing or whether it's just some made-up woo.

Anonymous authority -- argument rejected.

Thanks! You guys are losing this badly.

Yet another frantic and premature declaration of victory.

 

[DGM]

Yet another frantic and premature declaration of victory.

This sounds like when the 9/11 clowns sent a picture of a RB211 fan disk to the makers of the APU asking if it came from a 757. Surprise, they said no. PROOF it was not an airplane.

 

[beachnut]

It can't be Ti in the sample, there are only 40 tons of titanium in a 747, it can't be found in an accident. And Al, forget it; who uses Al in aircraft.

 

[catsmate]

FBI admitted the existence of the report in federal court. They just said they couldn't find it.

You're way out of touch on this.

Incendiary shrapnel

Indeed. JB has completely failed to show that such exists, is used in missile warheads or was found in the TWA 800 wreckage of course.

There is no such thing as "incendiary shrapnel," and cerium and barium are not found in U.S. incendiary formulations.

I think barium is used in some flares

The are, however, used in aerospace to construct commercial airframes.

Indeed. Fascinating what's added to aluminium for aerospace alloys.

Your input shows a colossal ignorance of aircraft construction and military munitions.

He's wrong in every detail.

Nope. Nice try. When FBI admits their existence that's legal proof.

You haven't shown they admit it. Plus you now demonstrate your ignorance of what constitutes proof.

Sure just like when you flopped on your face when you claimed PETN wasn't a rocket propellant.

He didn't. PETN isn't used in any current US rocket propellant mixes or any used in 1996.
I note that again you refuse to address the fact that the testing that found PETN traces also found cyclonite and nitroglycerine.

Yeah, he is. I figured that out about the time he refused to answer any questions about the Long Island Coroner or the name of the sub captain. The list of topics he refuses to discuss is growing exponentially.

But it's fun.... We get so few new chew toys.

"Flopped on my face?" I don't think you're really paying much attention here. Which missiles in use at the time had PETN in their propellants, as opposed to in their warheads? If there was PETN contamination on the recovered parts, where would it been most likely to have come from -- warheads or propellant grains?

Actually PETN is rarely used in missile warheads, no SAM or AAM in US service in 1996 used it. Cyclonite, HMX or others are preferred. PETN is usually found as a shell filler (especially <40mm calibre), plastique and det-cord.

When you're finished trying frantically to extract a victory out of your gaffe, please answer my challenge regarding the trace elements in the alleged pellets and where they are most likely to have come from.

JB's claimed mix is a rather odd one for any sort of incendiary, I suspect some poor quality googling.

Anonymous authority -- argument rejected.


Yet another frantic and premature declaration of victory.

Indeed. He'd dodging; no mention of submarines or satellites any more since he got spanked on those topics.

 

[JayUtah]

Actually PETN is rarely used in missile warheads, no SAM or AAM in US service in 1996 used it. Cyclonite, HMX or others are preferred. PETN is usually found as a shell filler (especially <40mm calibre), plastique and det-cord.

You're right; I should have included artillery shells in the list of possibilities.

JB's claimed mix is a rather odd one for any sort of incendiary, I suspect some poor quality googling.

I think he's convinced he's arguing with strictly laymen and that it will never be anything else, so he can just throw out a bunch of word salads and this will be a slam-dunk of sorts, in some way he hasn't yet figured out. Or he's just trolling. You know how Anders Lindman will just say whatever pops into his head. It's difficult to discern between wanton trolling and frantic handwaving.

 

[JayUtah]

This sounds like when the 9/11 clowns sent a picture of a RB211 fan disk to the makers of the APU asking if it came from a 757. Surprise, they said no. PROOF it was not an airplane.

And I anticipate Jetblast's rejoinder might go something like, "I dare you to say that to John Fiorentino's face! I bet if we put you both in front of a jury, he'd win."

 

[tsig]

I.e., you frantically Googled for something on a conspiracy web site and quoted it here verbatim without attribution.



In other words, the actual name of the person at Boeing is redacted so that your critics have no way to tell whether this actually came from Boeing or whether it's just some made-up woo.

Anonymous authority -- argument rejected.



Yet another frantic and premature declaration of victory.

He keeps spiking the football on the 50 yard line and yelling touchdown while doing a victory dance.

The crowd watches in amazement.

 

[JayUtah]

He keeps spiking the football on the 50 yard line and yelling touchdown while doing a victory dance.

The crowd watches in amazement.

...because it's a tennis court.

 

[DGM]

...because it's a tennis court.

...and the ball keeps getting him in the nads.

 

[catsmate]

You're right; I should have included artillery shells in the list of possibilities.

Far more likely. Given the presence of PETN/RDX, RDX and GTN I'd say contamination from military personnel or equipment explains the explosives.

...because it's a tennis court.

...and the ball keeps getting him in the nads.

 

[thedopefishlives]

But it's fun.... We get so few new chew toys.

Well, you notice I'm still kicking around in this thread, despite my explicit admission that I think he's a troll. It relieves the boredom of the work day.

 

[catsmate]

Well, you notice I'm still kicking around in this thread, despite my explicit admission that I think he's a troll. It relieves the boredom of the work day.

You could try trolling one of the CT fora, see how far they'll go.

 

[swright777]

I think you're in contempt of something FBI admits to.


Are you into 666?

That made no sense at all. Were you dropped on your head as a child?

 

[fess]

Considering the evidence provided by JB, and the documentation offered as proof, I doubt that JB would even get near a court, much less in front of a jury.

 

[Jetblast]

Bull ****.

You need a better answer than that Mr Rob. The facts will bear me out. The pellets were of the shape and consistency of incendiary shrapnel pellets. Your one-line knee-jerk response is very incriminating. As the Boeing memorandum makes more than clear they could not have come from the 747, so therefore you have yet to account for them. You're caught by the tail here.

 

[Jetblast]

That made no sense at all. Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Good, ridicule, the last resort of scoundrels.


Your side has pretty much caved, thanks.

 

[Jetblast]

It can't be Ti in the sample, there are only 40 tons of titanium in a 747, it can't be found in an accident. And Al, forget it; who uses Al in aircraft.

You're not following the argument. The Boeing representative clearly said the titanium and aluminum were present in matrix form. He clearly noted that Boeing would never use combined titanium and aluminum because they expand at different rates and that the high expansion rates between the -70 and 180 degree temperatures a 747 is exposed to prohibits their use in such a maxtrix form.


You should be informed you're badly losing this debate.