New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

Jetblast said:
You still haven't explained what the radar picked-up. Or was it also a hallucinating unreliable witness?
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We are talking about the reliability of eyewitnesses, not radar. You know the Chewbacca Defense was meant as a joke, to demonstrate the absurdity of that type of argument, and not something to be emulated, right?
 
SUSpilot said:
A 747 doesn't have aluminum?
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If you follow the thread the FBI documented pellets found in the body of a victim that consisted mostly of aluminum with traces of titanium, zirconium, cerium and barium. The shape and proportions of those materials was consistent with US warhead incendiary devices. MIT's Professor Sephton sued FBI over it in federal court. Your question is way behind the curve on this.



SUSpilot said:
As for the bridge: I grew up in the Chicago area. Stand on any of Bascul bridges over the Chicago river when a bus crosses - the Michigan Avenue bridge is a good one - and let me know about the shaking. Isn't it just possible there was traffic on the bridge in question?
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Tansy's quote from witness Mike Wire's FBI statement clearly said the blast from the explosion hit him with a concussive force that was accompanied by a violent shaking of the bridge on which he was standing. I assume Wire, who worked on the bridge, knew the difference between traffic shaking and missile. The context of this is the Angelides', a nearby couple, also witnessed shaking of their house from the same concussive blast.




SUSpilot said:
Yes, metaphorically, the radar was hallucinating. More to the point, there were uncorrelated targets.
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FBI and their experts accepted the track as valid. They never questioned the radar on this. You don't know what targets were what. Meanwhile Kallstrom admitted the tracks in question were Naval vessels.



SUSpilot said:
Look, when I first heard of this tragedy, like Kallstrom I was convinced that it was a missile attack or a bomb. The facts have proven that wrong. You may not like that, as a grand conspiracy is more sexy, but, sorry, life just ain't like that.
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Tell it to the missile pellets found in one of the victim's body's and recorded by FBI.

By the way, did you also believe in the CIA Zoom Climb that they were forced to drop when disproven? Or FBI's seat glue?


What facts have proven that wrong? Your side failed to produce any evidence of a center tank explosion as the cause.
 
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matt.tansy said:
We are talking about the reliability of eyewitnesses, not radar. You know the Chewbacca Defense was meant as a joke, to demonstrate the absurdity of that type of argument, and not something to be emulated, right?
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Good. Flagrant dodging is a tacit admission of guilt. The 30 knot radar track was real and you can't explain it. Good.
 
Jetblast said:
If you follow the thread the FBI documented pellets found in the body of a victim that consisted mostly of aluminum with traces of titanium, zirconium, cerium and barium. The shape and proportions of those materials was consistent with US warhead incendiary devices. MIT's Professor Sephton sued FBI over it in federal court. Your question is way behind the curve on this.

Tansy's quote from witness Mike Wire's FBI statement clearly said the blast from the explosion hit him with a concussive force that was accompanied by a violent shaking of the bridge on which he was standing. I assume Wire, who worked on the bridge, knew the difference between traffic shaking and missile. The context of this is the Angelides', a nearby couple, also witnessed shaking of their house from the same concussive blast.

FBI and their experts accepted the track as valid. They never questioned the radar on this. You don't know what targets were what. Meanwhile Kallstrom admitted the tracks in question were Naval vessels.

Tell it to the missile pellets found in one of the victim's body's and recorded by FBI.

By the way, did you also believe in the CIA Zoom Climb that they were forced to drop when disproven? Or FBI's seat glue?


What facts have proven that wrong? Your side failed to produce any evidence of a center tank explosion as the cause.
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If my life depended upon it, I would rely on Cpt Swoop before I believed any word you said. On the one hand we have a navy combat veteran, on the other we have a combat keyboard warrior. Cpt Swoops experience lines up with my experience of detonations, yours does not. Cpt Swoop's experience lines up with science, yours does not. Cpt. Swoop has actual combat experience and you do not.

I will be going with Cpt. Swoop and actual science, thx v much.
 
Jetblast said:
Good. Flagrant dodging is a tacit admission of guilt.
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Like when you answered the question about the CO of the Wyoming who was relieved of duty? Or how warhead fragments could enter the victims without first penetrating the skin of the aircraft? Or when you showed us your math that proved a 20 kg warhead could shake a bridge from 10 miles away? Or how you didn't handwave away a simple explantation of radar accuracy?


The 30 knot radar track was real and you can't explain it. Good.
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Yes, it was real. The possibilty of what it could have been though can be eliminated. Could a US Navy cruiser have avoided being seen by the people within 2 miles of it, by a decorated Vietnam veterran helicopter pilot within 5 miles of it, or by dozens of people within 10 miles of it? No.
 
matt.tansy said:
Like when you answered the question about the CO of the Wyoming who was relieved of duty? Or how warhead fragments could enter the victims without first penetrating the skin of the aircraft? Or when you showed us your math that proved a 20 kg warhead could shake a bridge from 10 miles away? Or how you didn't handwave away a simple explantation of radar accuracy?

Yes, it was real. The possibilty of what it could have been though can be eliminated. Could a US Navy cruiser have avoided being seen by the people within 2 miles of it, by a decorated Vietnam veterran helicopter pilot within 5 miles of it, or by dozens of people within 10 miles of it? No.
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Thinking about his claim, does this not mean ANY military ship in the vicinity is proof? If there were none at all would he not be touting this as proof? Of something?
 
Jetblast said:
If you follow the thread the FBI documented pellets found in the body of a victim that consisted mostly of aluminum with traces of titanium, zirconium, cerium and barium. The shape and proportions of those materials was consistent with US warhead incendiary devices. MIT's Professor Sephton sued FBI over it in federal court. Your question is way behind the curve on this.
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The FBI won that court case. ..., this claim failed out of the box, never made the curve.

You never produced the documented FBI stuff. You talk about hearsay, but you never produced the documented stuff. Do you have it?

The aircraft is made of aluminum. The rest of the elements are found in paint. oops

LOL, the funny part, traces. How much, trace amounts. Like in paint? Did you make this up, or google it up? BTW, you offered no evidence.

Jetblast said:
Tansy's quote from witness Mike Wire's FBI statement clearly said the blast from the explosion hit him with a concussive force that was accompanied by a violent shaking of the bridge on which he was standing. I assume Wire, who worked on the bridge, knew the difference between traffic shaking and missile. The context of this is the Angelides', a nearby couple, also witnessed shaking of their house from the same concussive blast.
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LOL, what was the source of the blast?
How bit is the warhead of the missile in your fantasy?
How many miles were they from the "blast"?
Please show the math for the shock wave at that distance. This is physics, show your math. Make my day.

Jetblast said:
FBI and their experts accepted the track as valid. They never questioned the radar on this. You don't know what targets were what. Meanwhile Kallstrom admitted the tracks in question were Naval vessels.
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The one target was a boat not identified.

Jetblast said:
Tell it to the missile pellets found in one of the victim's body's and recorded by FBI.
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Where is this evidence. Was the pellet Al? Why are there no pellet holes in the aircraft?

Jetblast said:
By the way, did you also believe in the CIA Zoom Climb that they were forced to drop when disproven? Or FBI's seat glue?
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Where was the climb of 800 refuted? Most the witnesses said it climbed. Are you refuting your own witnesses? Are you saying a plane will not go up when you move the CG aft? Did you take aero? No? Oh


Jetblast said:
What facts have proven that wrong? Your side failed to produce any evidence of a center tank explosion as the cause.
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You have hearsay, it is not evidence, it is not facts. Good luck with your flight 800 3 missile fantasy.

So far you have failed to support your AOA junk - when will you produce that study?

The funny part of your story, is the RADAR MACH 4 delusion. The nut doing that study has no clue how RADAR works, and why the MACH 4 is fantasy.
 
The so called investigation of TWA 800 which included the NTSB and FBI and perhaps FAA clearly seemed to not want to consider over 200 credible witnesses who saw what looked to them like a missile. The damage to the plane seemed not to be from the center fuel tank exploding but something exploding outside the plane. So there was some level of collusion in my opinion (and others)... that the above alphabets lied.

Maybe... I would say that every bureaucratic establishment will lie to protect its franchise. Lying is an American as apple pie.
 
Jetblast said:
Good. Flagrant dodging is a tacit admission of guilt. The 30 knot radar track was real and you can't explain it. Good.
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What happened to the passengers on the planes? They were real people. Carry on insulting their memory.
 
JSanderO said:
The so called investigation of TWA 800 which included the NTSB and FBI and perhaps FAA clearly seemed to not want to consider over 200 credible witnesses who saw what looked to them like a missile. The damage to the plane seemed not to be from the center fuel tank exploding but something exploding outside the plane. So there was some level of collusion in my opinion (and others)... that the above alphabets lied.

Maybe... I would say that every bureaucratic establishment will lie to protect its franchise. Lying is an American as apple pie.
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With lies we get the reality we choose and protection for the guilty.

MM
 
JSanderO said:
The so called investigation of TWA 800 which included the NTSB and FBI and perhaps FAA clearly seemed to not want to consider over 200 credible witnesses who saw what looked to them like a missile. The damage to the plane seemed not to be from the center fuel tank exploding but something exploding outside the plane. So there was some level of collusion in my opinion (and others)... that the above alphabets lied.

Maybe... I would say that every bureaucratic establishment will lie to protect its franchise. Lying is an American as apple pie.
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There's a whole thread on the TWA800. Feel free to raise your concerns there.
 
JSanderO said:
The so called investigation of TWA 800 which included the NTSB and FBI and perhaps FAA clearly seemed to not want to consider over 200 credible witnesses who saw what looked to them like a missile. The damage to the plane seemed not to be from the center fuel tank exploding but something exploding outside the plane. So there was some level of collusion in my opinion (and others)... that the above alphabets lied.

Maybe... I would say that every bureaucratic establishment will lie to protect its franchise. Lying is an American as apple pie.
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In addition to being wrong about TWA800 and being offtopic, there's no such thing as "every bureaucratic establishment lies"- individuals lie and when that happens in government and the lie is criminal, e.g. political corruption, they are exposed and punished. The difference is that when Truthers lie, the Constitution allows them to continue lying and slandering innocent people and exculpating the guilty without punishment.
That's what makes America great and what irritates the rationals that have to put up with TLV (Truther Lying Virus).
 
I'm still waiting for the Long Island Coroner's report/testimony and for the name of the submarine captain who was relieved of duty. You want to talk about dodging? I bet that not only do I not get a straight answer, he also just ignores my post like it never existed, as he's done every other time I've posted this query.
 
My pet theory, and one the NTSB considered and rejected, is that this was a meteorite or rocket debris hitting the aircraft and holing the hot center fuel tank, causing it to detonate.

A meteor coming on an oblique trajectory from the east will appear to rise from the horizon.

If you compute the probability of this happening, it's not zero, and something like it will happen eventually. Question is whether you will recognize it when it does happen.
 
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