New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

The structure shaking was adequately witnessed by 3 separate people. Two people is usually enough for a legal witnessing. We have 3. So we can just dismiss the noise-making by deniers and therefore reasonably conclude that a fuel explosion cannot shake structures at 10 miles distance, so therefore we have sound scientific proof of a missile explosion as witnessed by many persons inclusing the highly qualified VietNam veteran Fred Meyer.

So instead of the science backing you, now we have an ever-increasing number of perfectly infallible eyewitnesses. I prefer to listen to science and to say that the eyewitnesses (whose testimony, furthermore, is coming third-hand through the FBI and through a conspiracy nutter) are misinterpreted or mistaken. And that I will say to their faces, because I am not accusing them of lying.
 
If we ignore the silly responses the 32 degree outside temperature on Flight 800 at 13,000 feet would have condensed any alleged fuel vapors inside the center fuel tank. You know, aircraft have red hot exteriors from air friction, which is why lavatory ice chunks sometimes form from leaks.

An aviation wiring short circuit creates a very noticeable burn boil in the insulation jacket of the involved wires. There are many examples of such short circuits captured in photos. The Flight 800 investigation never turned-up any such burn boil in any wiring in its investigation.
 
So instead of the science backing you, now we have an ever-increasing number of perfectly infallible eyewitnesses. I prefer to listen to science and to say that the eyewitnesses (whose testimony, furthermore, is coming third-hand through the FBI and through a conspiracy nutter) are misinterpreted or mistaken. And that I will say to their faces, because I am not accusing them of lying.



Sorry, you've failed to show where they were fallible.


They felt shaking your ridiculous excuse-making has failed to account for.


You're obviously back-pedaling and on the ropes.
 
Sorry, you've failed to show where they were fallible.


They felt shaking your ridiculous excuse-making has failed to account for.


You're obviously back-pedaling and on the ropes.

I'm back-pedaling?

Where's the Long Island Coroner's report or testimony?

Who's the submarine captain that was relieved of duty?

:id:
 
If we ignore the silly responses the 32 degree outside temperature on Flight 800 at 13,000 feet would have condensed any alleged fuel vapors inside the center fuel tank. You know, aircraft have red hot exteriors from air friction, which is why lavatory ice chunks sometimes form from leaks.

An aviation wiring short circuit creates a very noticeable burn boil in the insulation jacket of the involved wires. There are many examples of such short circuits captured in photos. The Flight 800 investigation never turned-up any such burn boil in any wiring in its investigation.

The fuel tank was heated by the air conditioning unit for the plane (bad design IMO), so your claim that it couldn't have been hot due to the outside temperature is not too different from claiming you can't boil water on your stove because it's cold outside.

Just a layman's guess, but they probably didn't find the insulation damage on the fuel tank wiring because the susequent jet fuel fire completely incinerated the insulation. That's probably obvious to everyone but you.
 
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You're not answering the point about how government could admit the satellite caught Navy vessels but "failed" to catch a missile launch with its high-tech equipment?

Handwaving. You have not shown that any such equipment was deployed as you say, although you were asked for a citation. You wrongly assume that Keyhole satellites can detect small missile launches.

Your layman's suppositions and assumptions are not a sufficient basis from which to judge validity. Nor is casting doubt on some other story sufficient to establish your claim as true.

The structure shaking was adequately witnessed by 3 separate people.

No. There are second-hand accounts of people who report that others felt a concussion -- which they most likely felt directly, not transmitted through or by structures. You have insisted that the structures in or on which they were positioned were what allegedly shook. You have attempted to extrapolate from these second-hand subjective accounts that a tremendous amount of energy was released (or, alternatively, that some sort of resonance occurred), and therefore that only a high-order ordnance detonation could have occurred.

Unfortunately you are unwilling to discuss the physical impossibility of such a scenario, such as would ordinarily have to occur in order to accept witness testimony on this point as literally valid. You are unwilling to discuss the problems with eyewitness testimony.

Two people is usually enough for a legal witnessing.

Legal witnessing precludes hearsay, which is all you have. None of your eyewitness testimony would be admissible in court because you have no statements from the actual witnesses: only accounts by others of statements they say they heard the witnesses recount.

So we can just dismiss the noise-making by deniers and therefore reasonably conclude...

Do not foist your conclusion. You are unable to answer the challenges to your assertions, so "we" will conclude nothing of the kind.

...that a fuel explosion cannot shake structures at 10 miles distance, so therefore we have sound scientific proof of a missile explosion as witnessed...

No. You're still just leaping to the desired conclusion from nothing more than a tenuous rejection of a straw man. You're not a scientist, so your lay opinion of what constitutes scientific proof is irrelevant.

It is stipulated that a fuel-air explosion could not shake a robust structure from a distance of 10 miles. But it is further proven that a missile warhead detonation could not do so either. You have utterly failed to comprehend that the same argument by which you purport to rule out a fuel-air deflagration also rules out a missile detonation.

A missile detonation does not explain "bridge shaking" either, so your missile claim is as easily dismissed by your line of reasoning as is the fuel-air claim. You want your interpretation of the eyewitness testimony to trump everything else. Unfortunately in a real-world investigation it can do no such thing.
 
You're not answering the point about how government could admit the satellite caught Navy vessels but "failed" to catch a missile launch with its high-tech equipment?
..

They failed to catch the missile launch because no missile launch happened. Most people wouldn't need to have that explained.
 
Sorry, you've failed to show where they were fallible.


They felt shaking your ridiculous excuse-making has failed to account for.


You're obviously back-pedaling and on the ropes.

They are fallible because an AA missile 10 miles away wouldn't shake anything.
 
If we ignore the silly responses...

Nice try. Dismissing your critics as "silly" does not negate the fact that they demonstrably know what they're talking about while you do not. You are frantically applying lay simplifications that have no part of the scientific laws governing your line of reasoning. Dismiss the rebuttals all you want, but you are simply trying to foist a layman's misconception.

...the 32 degree outside temperature on Flight 800 at 13,000 feet would have condensed any alleged fuel vapors inside the center fuel tank.

You are making a quantitative argument governed by well-known laws of thermodynamics and heat transfer. Yet you have not provided a quantitative argument to prove that point. You're simply begging the question. You assure us that your arguments are sound science, but you're really just alluding to layman's versions of scientific principles and then asking us to take your word for it. That's as unscientific as an argument can get.

You know, aircraft have red hot exteriors from air friction...

No, they do not.

An aviation wiring short circuit creates a very noticeable burn boil in the insulation jacket of the involved wires.

Only if the short circuit occurs near insulation. You are not an expert in aircraft design and operation, so we are not compelled to accept your layman's supposition.

There are many examples of such short circuits captured in photos.

Indeed there are. But why do you consider that proof that insulation damage must occur for all short circuits and that evidence of such will inevitably be recovered from a mid-air breakup and water crash?

The Flight 800 investigation never turned-up any such burn boil in any wiring in its investigation.

Why do you think it didn't? Is it because the investigators are nefarious agents covering up the truth? Or is it because your layman's assumptions of what indicates an electrical short circuit are simplistic, uninformed, and naive?
 
Sorry, you've failed to show where they were fallible.

They are human beings. The pertinent properties for that explanation are common to all humans.

They felt shaking your ridiculous excuse-making has failed to account for.

Asked and answered. You simply don't like the answer.

You're obviously back-pedaling and on the ropes.

I'll let the readers decide who is prevailing in this debate. I'm betting they won't side with the guy who insists on declaring victory in every post.
 
You're not answering the point about how government could admit the satellite caught Navy vessels but "failed" to catch a missile launch with its high-tech equipment?


You're assuming a Keyhole was over the crash site at the time of the crash. You're putting the cart before the horse. Keyhole's are surveillance satellites. Are they capable of detecting missile launches?


The structure shaking was adequately witnessed by 3 separate people. Two people is usually enough for a legal witnessing. We have 3. So we can just dismiss the noise-making by deniers and therefore reasonably conclude that a fuel explosion cannot shake structures at 10 miles distance,


No, you can't reasonably conclude that. You have been asked repeatedly to show your calculations for the SPL of a missile warhead detonation at 10 miles and by now it's obvious you have no clue where to even start such a calculation. I'll pile on to the growing list of questions you have not answered and ask you to calculate the SPL at 10 miles from a fuel-air explosion equivalent to 20 lbs of TNT that ruptures a fuel tank that failed at 50 PSI.

so therefore we have sound scientific proof of a missile explosion as witnessed by many persons inclusing the highly qualified VietNam veteran Fred Meyer.


Yeah, the same Fred Meyer who said the lower limb of the Sun was on the horizon at the time of his sighting TWA 800 and, despite crafty editing of the videos of him retelling his account, just can't stretch it out long enough to cover the 42 seconds from the first explosion to the final fireball.
 
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science beats talk and woo

Not true. The three tracks were nearby to the crash. He was not referring to the 30 knot track. You are not being accurate. He was referring to the tracks caught on radar near the crash scene. He specifically says they were Naval vessels.
You failed to read the NTSB report. The 30 knot track, a boat which not in a position to see the crash, and it was never identified. The claim you have is BS. Unrelated stuff and hearsay which you can't provide proof, data. You present talk, no evidence.

If we ignore the silly responses the 32 degree outside temperature on Flight 800 at 13,000 feet would have condensed any alleged fuel vapors inside the center fuel tank. You know, aircraft have red hot exteriors from air friction, which is why lavatory ice chunks sometimes form from leaks. ...
Can you show your work, some math to back this up? You got woo.

If the tank was at 100 degrees at take off, it would take an hour for the tank to get to 85 degrees. That is way past 13,000 feet; try science next time, not some guessing game or plagiarized nonsense from some woo web sites.

http://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/ar98-26.pdf It can't hurt to read, I am sure you can take this and make up more BS.

You find lies on the Internet, the NTSB and the USAF did studies because they both are interested in 747s. Airforce One, NECAP, etc. The studies showed fuel fumes in the tanks at 120F +
From flight 800 final report.
Examination of the temperature data collected during the emulation flight test indicated that the highest ullage temperature measured within the CWT was 145° F and that it occurred in the left mid bay just before the airplane began to taxi for takeoff. Examination of the temperature data also indicated that the highest ullage temperature measured at 13,700 feet msl was 127° F http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/reports/2000/AAR0003.pdf
Oops, the NTSB does flight test, you do fantasy talk you plagiarized from the Internet, or made up yourself.

Next time instead of making up lies, copy and paste lies, do real research.


Many commercial aircraft designs have the cabin environmental conditioning system, commonly referred to as ECS packs under the center wing tank (CWT). As a result of heat losses from the environmental conditioning system being transferred to the CWT, the fuel temperatures are elevated.
The paper you failed to read explains more.

At 13,000 feet the temperature of the fumes in the CWT were in the zone for being explosives from a spark. You got woo, and the report used science.

An aviation wiring short circuit creates a very noticeable burn boil in the insulation jacket of the involved wires. There are many examples of such short circuits captured in photos. The Flight 800 investigation never turned-up any such burn boil in any wiring in its investigation.
And? No source, and just talk.
 
I'm back-pedaling?

Where's the Long Island Coroner's report or testimony?

Who's the submarine captain that was relieved of duty?

:id:

Ah, you DO realize he is a troll trying to get a response from you right? You do realize that subject is of no importance to the person you are talking to?
 
They are fallible because an AA missile 10 miles away wouldn't shake anything.

I believe this is forth time this same exchange has taken place, he is simply repeating the same stuff over and over.

Which is exactly what he will continue to do as he successfully trolls you.
 
Ah, you DO realize he is a troll trying to get a response from you right? You do realize that subject is of no importance to the person you are talking to?

It became patently obvious as soon as he started Gish galloping rapidly away from any questions (such as the two I asked in that post, for the 10th time) that are inconvenient to his fantasy. It's fun to see him completely not answer, though.
 
It became patently obvious as soon as he started Gish galloping rapidly away from any questions (such as the two I asked in that post, for the 10th time) that are inconvenient to his fantasy. It's fun to see him completely not answer, though.

Have fun then!
 
They are human beings. The pertinent properties for that explanation are common to all humans.



Asked and answered. You simply don't like the answer.



I'll let the readers decide who is prevailing in this debate. I'm betting they won't side with the guy who insists on declaring victory in every post.

Great answer Jay but just one note: Jetblast last responded to one your posts on the 23rd of August. He's unable to answer your excellent material so has gone into denial mode.
 
Just thought I'd check back in again to ask if anyone supporting the missile theory in regards to TWA 800 has yet explained why the forensic examination of the human remains recovered from the flight does not support the missile theory.
 

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