Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Kaosium]

I will bet a yacht that it will be featured in the stories of the first week and will be mentioned throughout the trial and not just by the PGP.

I remember someone telling me that a certain culture never turns down an invitation because they don't want to disappoint twice. They know that they will disappoint when they don't show, so why disappoint when invited.

There is only so much coverage they will get and this "news" seems a waste.

I'm just guessing they didn't want it to become a 'surprise development on the eve of the trial' and lead to unwarranted speculation as to why.

 

[Grinder]

I'm just guessing they didn't want it to become a 'surprise development on the eve of the trial' and lead to unwarranted speculation as to why.

Hey I just like betting yachts . Anglo keep your comments to yourself!

I don't dispute your assessment but think that it has long been anticipated and it would have been a perfect opportunity to waffle on whether or not she will be there.

I would have said something like she hasn't decided for sure but felt she didn't have a chance to aid in her own defense in the first trials and is worried that they would tap all her calls and discussions with her defense team even if they didn't put her in jail as they did for a year before even charging her.

Then I would list the concerns she has about what will be allowed in this trial and she knows now that even stating the truth about her questioning led to charges against her and her parents for repeating what she had told them. She would insist that she be allowed to defend herself without additional charges for telling the truth.

They should ask Mignini the prosecutor what protections will be afforded her vis-a-vis being able to vigorously defend herself. She could still stay home saying the guarantees aren't enough or the Italians can't be trusted and list a few reasons.

If the Florentine trial is fair, they can't convict. As Hellmann said, there isn't enough evidence in court to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. If the trial isn't fair, then they should be laying the ground work for blocking extradition.

 

[anglolawyer]

RW

Thanks for that link to PS. I saw this snippet recording Patrick's evidence:

Next day there aren't people at Le Chic and Patrick sends an SMS to Amanda Chic --as he named her on his cellphone-- to not to come to work. He explained why they wouldn't find that message on his cellphone. He needed to cancel the previous sent message to send a new one. A strange kind of cellphone.

In case anyone doesn't know, I wrote an article for Ground Report setting out the grounds for believing his message was deleted from Amanda's phone by the cops. I didn't know this bit. So she deleted his message because she was in the habit of doing so and he deleted it because unless he did he couldn't send another one. How odd.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I'm just guessing they didn't want it to become a 'surprise development on the eve of the trial' and lead to unwarranted speculation as to why.

Amanda will never return to Western Europe, no surprise there. However, what do you think of Raffaele Sollecito options?

 

[codyjuneau]

So that her not appearing will be 'old news' thus her not appearing won't lead the news cycle with a 'fresh look' at whether it means she's guilty of anything.

.
That was my thought also.

Interesting note on the CNN article Scrut linked: did you notice Rudy Guede wasn't even named? The fact they actually got the guy who did it, prosecuted him with rock solid evidence and convicted him ought to be included in every serious piece on the issue, but somehow it escaped this author's notice!

It reminds me of when Lionking reported after his travel to Italy that he ran into a guy there who was adamant that Amanda was guilty but had conflated Guede and Lumumba and thought Guede was a total innocent still in prison because of Amanda's 'accusation.'

.
Guede has been an afterthought in just about every article ever written about this case. Correcting THAT is where any PR efforts should have been directed, IMO.
.

 

[Bill Williams]

I'm dumbfounded as to why they would announce her absence as it will become apparent in 34 days.

Welcomes back, Grinder! I was worried about you! Hope everything is all right.

But back to the fray.

The assumption that the FOA PR supertanker controls the newscycle is preposterous.

Gogerty-Marriott was probably interviewed on dozens of items, and the one the media chose out of all that was the "non-return to Italy". The assumptions behind your claim above is part of the problem throughout all this....

To make it seem like it is a staged PR news release that the networks just swallowed whole is the most preposterous claim of all.

 

[GreyFox]

Psssst ......hey kid.

Like a child molester offers candy to children... Guilters offer guilt to Knox to lure her back into the trap by saying she will look guilty for not going back ...to the same country that...... never gave her a fair trial to begin with !


Silly Guilters. Amanda don't care how she looks to you. She cares that she's free from the Injustice (hostage crisis) that Italy caused her for 4 long years .

Now Deal with it!

 

[MDDVS]

Okay I understand no actual examples then. Never mind, Rose Montague and I found a couple. When you get a chance pursue this article from the BBC

How does this explain why Italy is one of the worst offenders?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

How does this explain why Italy is one of the worst offenders?

Is Italy the worst?Article from the London Guardian

 

[CoulsdonUK]

Like a child molester offers candy to children... Guilters offer guilt to Knox to lure her back into the trap by saying she will look guilty for not going back ...to the same country that...... never gave her a fair trial to begin with !


Silly Guilters. Amanda don't care how she looks to you. She cares that she's free from the Injustice (hostage crisis) that Italy caused her for 4 long years .

Now Deal with it!

Any comment on Raffaele options, anyone?

 

[MDDVS]

Is Italy the worst?Article from the London Guardian

I didn't say the worst, I said one of the worst. And yes it is. The data in that article is for 2011 only but even in that limited data set it stands out as the worst offender in Western Europe.

 

[JREF2010]

I don't know about corrupt, but maybe incompetent. After all, they let a convicted murderer go free. How much more incompetent can you get?

Rudy's not out....yet.

 

[Grinder]

Welcomes back, Grinder! I was worried about you! Hope everything is all right.

But back to the fray.

The assumption that the FOA PR supertanker controls the newscycle is preposterous.

Gogerty-Marriott was probably interviewed on dozens of items, and the one the media chose out of all that was the "non-return to Italy". The assumptions behind your claim above is part of the problem throughout all this....

To make it seem like it is a staged PR news release that the networks just swallowed whole is the most preposterous claim of all.

Thanks for the concern.

I didn't say anything about GM and in fact as I read the stories they came from an interview given in Italy by her defense lawyer.

Had they interviewed him on their volition he could have responded as I suggested above by deflecting the question of her appearance by bringing up issues as I suggested that she would be weighing in consideration of the return or not.

While it is a laugh to think that GM controlled the US press it is true that press releases are often used as the press has always been lazy and now they are broke as well.

I doubt GM was interviewed at all. If they were they just don't answer what they don't want and repeat those points they want covered. That why people use talking points and repeat the same ones over and over.

"Amanda is keeping her options open. She is working with defense team to get the important facts into the trial. She believes it may be the case that the Florentine court will ignore important issues such as the DNA evidence, the footprint analysis as well as witness testimony that is false. She may attend the hearings but only if she believes it will aid in getting to the truth. She doesn't want her attendance to become the focus of the trial. It should be getting to the truth."

"But will she attend?"

"Amanda is keeping her options open. She is working with defense team to get the important facts into the trial. She believes it may be the case that the Florentine court will ignore important issues such as the DNA evidence, the footprint analysis as well as witness testimony that is false. She may attend the hearings but only if she believes it will aid in getting to the truth. She doesn't want her attendance to become the focus of the trial. It should be getting to the truth."


And on and on.

 

[Diocletus]

Any comment on Raffaele options, anyone?

Dunno. Guess we wait and see. I hope that the defense comes into court in September demanding that the suppressed labwork is coughed up and the prosecution is finally forced to make full disclosure.

How many superwitnesses will still be alive when this absurd proceeding finally ends?

 

[CoulsdonUK]

I didn't say the worst, I said one of the worst. And yes it is. The data in that article is for 2011 only but even in that limited data set it stands out as the worst offender in Western Europe.

Yes you did say one of the worst, apologies, I know how annoying that can be.

Nonetheless I do believe there is a degree of hyperbole with regards Italy, for example Germany 41, Greece 73, Russia 133 with Italy at 45, interesting is Turkey regarded as being in Western Europe, nothing like bit of context.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thanks for the concern.

I didn't say anything about GM and in fact as I read the stories they came from an interview given in Italy by her defense lawyer.

Had they interviewed him on their volition he could have responded as I suggested above by deflecting the question of her appearance by bringing up issues as I suggested that she would be weighing in consideration of the return or not.

While it is a laugh to think that GM controlled the US press it is true that press releases are often used as the press has always been lazy and now they are broke as well.

I doubt GM was interviewed at all. If they were they just don't answer what they don't want and repeat those points they want covered. That why people use talking points and repeat the same ones over and over.

"Amanda is keeping her options open. She is working with defense team to get the important facts into the trial. She believes it may be the case that the Florentine court will ignore important issues such as the DNA evidence, the footprint analysis as well as witness testimony that is false. She may attend the hearings but only if she believes it will aid in getting to the truth. She doesn't want her attendance to become the focus of the trial. It should be getting to the truth."

"But will she attend?"

"Amanda is keeping her options open. She is working with defense team to get the important facts into the trial. She believes it may be the case that the Florentine court will ignore important issues such as the DNA evidence, the footprint analysis as well as witness testimony that is false. She may attend the hearings but only if she believes it will aid in getting to the truth. She doesn't want her attendance to become the focus of the trial. It should be getting to the truth."


And on and on.

That highlighted part is something that perhaps EVERYONE agrees on, except for the bullies who want to taunt her by saying, "coward, coward, afraid to show up eh?"

The press had a completely unhealthy focus on Knox early on - Raffaele was a complete afterthought as far as the coverage was concerned, and this is where I agree full value with the Kerchers who (rightly) complain that the victim gets lost in the hype.

But that is patently not Knox's fault. I remember one of the earliest things I ever read about this - it was on the TJMK site, about 5 or 6 weeks before the acquittal - where one of the "brilliant" posters there called Knox a "media whore".

That was my own first inkling that places like TJMK was not exactly what you would call an "objective" site.... in fact it is a virtual one-man PR campaign to spread viciousness.

But it was, to me back then, ludicrous to call Knox names like that when she (then) was behind bars and didn't even own her own body. She was at the total mercy of the prison and the media. She had the wisdom by "Waiting to be heard", but now those very same people (it seems to me) who complained the most bitterly about her WANTING to be the centre of attention are now the ones complaining about her non-attendance, that she'd rather not be a distraction and let the facts speak for themselves.

Me - I am up to 55% percent confident that the facts will win the day in Florence. Strangely, someone in Perugia by wanting that city to break its twin-sister city status with Seattle because of Knox's non-attendance - they are simply perpetuating the myth that Knox is at the centre of this to begin with.

Let's all join with the Kerchers, shall we, and just focus on the facts of what happened almost 6 years ago, because that was horrible enough without furthering the misery by wrongfully prosecuting two innocents.

 

[Grinder]

Bill my interest is what the defense should be doing. I include all aspects of the defense including the press relations. If you are correct by a mere 5% and she is found not guilty then that should be the end of it even if the ISC reverses a second time. By that I mean it will be over for everybody outside of Italy.

What do you think the message from the defense should be? Do you think that announcing her intent not to attend is helpful? Do you believe that when the trial starts the media will skip noting her lack of attendance because of the inoculating statement by her lawyer?

 

[MDDVS]

Yes you did say one of the worst, apologies, I know how annoying that can be.

Nonetheless I do believe there is a degree of hyperbole with regards Italy, for example Germany 41, Greece 73, Russia 133 with Italy at 45, interesting is Turkey regarded as being in Western Europe, nothing like bit of context.

No hyperbole, just a stating of the facts. I also happen to know a bit more closely the actual reality of the italian judicial system.

As I said, those numbers correspond to a particular year so they don't tell the whole story. Nevertheless, they do confirm the trend of Italy being a leader in human rights violations.

I personally wouldn't say Greece, Turkey or Russia are western european countries. I mean, consiering there's only Asia on their eastern border. Even culturally, Greece was part of the Eastern Roman Empire, and are eastern orthodox.

Also note how two other countries with similar judicial systems (France and Portugal) find themselves in bottom of the pile as well, specially when considering western european countries.

 

[CoulsdonUK]

No hyperbole, just a stating of the facts. I also happen to know a bit more closely the actual reality of the italian judicial system.

As I said, those numbers correspond to a particular year so they don't tell the whole story. Nevertheless, they do confirm the trend of Italy being a leader in human rights violations.

I personally wouldn't say Greece, Turkey or Russia are western european countries. I mean, consiering there's only Asia on their eastern border. Even culturally, Greece was part of the Eastern Roman Empire, and are eastern orthodox.

Also note how two other countries with similar judicial systems (France and Portugal) find themselves in bottom of the pile as well, specially when considering western european countries.

Okay so it’s Germany the economic power house of Europe 41 and Italy 45, I only mention Turkey as others seem to compare Italy to Turkey. I look forward to you presenting objective information that supports the pro-innocence hyperbole about Italy’s standing within ECHR violations.

 

[MDDVS]

Okay so it’s Germany the economic power house of Europe 41 and Italy 45, I only mention Turkey as others seem to compare Italy to Turkey. I look forward to you presenting objective information that supports the pro-innocence hyperbole about Italy’s standing within ECHR violations.

Why do you insist in those numbers? They correpond to 2011 only.

Data from 1959 to 2011:

Judgements finding at least one violation

Turkey (absolute worst) - 2404
Italy - 1651
Germany - 159


Source: http://www.echr.coe.int/Documents/Overview_2011_ENG.pdf