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Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Now she's refusing to return to Italy to face justice. Sounds like an admission of guilt to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/24/world/europe/amanda-knox-italy-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Really? I mean, you are entitled to an opinion. Can you say more? Even the court in Florence does not regard it as an admission of guilt, so it's a bit of a surprise to hear someone hold it as an opinion.

Inquiring minds wish to know. It's one thing to regard Knox as guilty, it's quite another to accuse her of admitting guilt. Have you not read her book? Do you not know that one of the things even the convicting judge, Judge Massei, back in 2010 wrote in his motivations report that the one thing that has not changed throughout is Knox's claim of complete innocence?

To me, this is just a bizarre comment.
 
I had written much earlier about a possible causal relationship where the phones end up in the hand of a fence who then discovers after getting home that the phones were taken from a murder victim and that the phones were still on and with the incomming message they could be traced to that general area. Now, it's not only necessary to get rid of the phones, the police have to find the phones before they start searching the area for where they might have been. Tossing them into a neighbor's garden and faking the bomb threat call should do the trick. Faking the call would not be beyond the skill of a phone hacker. Getting the perugian police to actually notice the phones as they trip over them would be.

Greetings Dan O.,
Interesting theory.

I read awhile back on the old Perugia Shock that a couple of fingerprints were found on Meredith's phones, here's what FS wrote:
We thought, for instance, that Meredith's cellphones were submerged with fingerprints since the many people who touched them before knowing they were so important. And instead only two prints were found on them and one inside one of them.

Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100806235928/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

Do you or anyone else know whom they were attributed to?
 
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That seems reasonable, but it is also a question of interpretation of laws and finding past judgements to bolster a given position.


There doesn’t appear to be anything of substance in the media from either the prosecution or defence teams. I am not so sure the signs are ominous. The Supreme Court didn’t rule that V & C report was inadmissible, it will be interesting to see how the appeal court deals with this; will it allow the prosecution to call its own experts, if so we’ll back to the 1st level trial where everyone called their own experts.

Well at least Italy is a member of ECHR and as such it’s violations are a matter of public record, whilst the US isn’t a signatory of the ECHR’s big brother International Court of Justice (ICJ). Italy’s standing or the lack of it is no more relevant that than US not being a signatory to the ICJ.

Why would the USA be a member of the EUROPEAN Court of Human Rights?

This atrocious case and others like the Sara Scazzi case took place in Italy. This is the Knox thread and she is one of two wrongly arrested, convicted and jailed persons. Italy and its huge number of convicted violations by its courts are certainly relevant.

And while the USA has plenty of idiotic cases of wrongful convictions it is rare that Freedom Of the Press would be suspended so as to keep the corruption hidden. Rarer still that the whole country would blindly agree that the multiple suspicious corrupt statements, acts, and illogical and even non-existent evidence is meaningless and so the two must be guilty...that would be highly unlikely in USA...in Italy the press is charged with crimes for reporting the truth. Newspapers are sued and lawyers, and parents are charged with crimes... and independent experts are visited by goon squads of police to ....what???? How do you and a whole country ignore all that? Indisputable facts of corrupt behavior in order to jail clearly innocent persons...???
 
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That brings back memory's of the officer who kicks in the glass, of the downstairs apartment door. I always thought that was so stupid looking, clod-hoppers, bumbling, stupid. Couldn't they just as easily remove a hinge or use a hammer to break the door glass?

Like a hoard of cows stampeding through the cottage, Stefonani, Napoleoni, Migninni didn't even keep a list of who all came and went in and out. A sloppy job was done in hindsight.

I understand this group had rarely ever worked a murder case, but surely they can see how ramrodding a crime scene is a horrific approach.

Handling the phones....surfing the web on Raffaeles pc and erasing critical info, what idiots would do that?

I often think there is corruption, but a lot of the issues seem to be just pure ignorance and incompetence by the Flying Squad and the Prosecution goofballs.

You do know she is the cow who was tampering with evidence in Napolinis child custody case of which they got caught right? I suppose they all got medals and promotions for that as well. Italian logic you see.
 
Greetings Dan O.,
Interesting theory.

I read awhile back on the old Perugia Shock that a couple of fingerprints were found on Meredith's phones, here's what FS wrote:
We thought, for instance, that Meredith's cellphones were submerged with fingerprints since the many people who touched them before knowing they were so important. And instead only two prints were found on them and one inside one of them.

Link:
http://web.archive.org/web/20100806235928/http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

Do you or anyone else know whom they were attributed to?


You hear so many stories in the early days of the crime that it's like the Italian police stumbling over each other to setup stories of how they will solve the crime.

Remember November 16th when all the initial evidence against Amanda and Raffaele had fallen apart? That is when Mignini ordered the fingerprint analysis of the two phones. By November 20 word is leaking out that there would be no result.
 
Why would the USA be a member of the EUROPEAN Court of Human Rights?

This atrocious case and others like the Sara Scazzi case took place in Italy. This is the Knox thread and she is one of two wrongly arrested, convicted and jailed persons. Italy and its huge number of convicted violations by its courts are certainly relevant.

And while the USA has plenty of idiotic cases of wrongful convictions it is rare that Freedom Of the Press would be suspended so as to keep the corruption hidden. Rarer still that the whole country would blindly agree that the multiple suspicious corrupt statements, acts, and illogical and even non-existent evidence is meaningless and so the two must be guilty...that would be highly unlikely in USA...in Italy the press is charged with crimes for reporting the truth. Newspapers are sued and lawyers, and parents are charged with crimes... and independent experts are visited by goon squads of police to ....what???? How do you and a whole country ignore all that? Indisputable facts of corrupt behavior in order to jail clearly innocent persons...???
It simply isn’t irrelevant to this case at this point; the appeal in Florence hasn’t taken place yet!

Please re-read my post I stated that the US is not a signatory to International Court of Justice (ICJ) and that is no more relevant than these ECHR violations against Italy that are never specified.

Italy denied the human rights of a group of Somalia’s when they were forcibly returned Libya; there you go an ECHR violation, relevance?

Can you provide an example of an ECHR violation against Italy that is relevant to this case?
 
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Now she's refusing to return to Italy to face justice. Sounds like an admission of guilt to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/24/world/europe/amanda-knox-italy-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Its too bad the press and Guilters of the Flying Migninni Squad didn't spend so much time interrogating and studying Rudy Guede....they could have actually solved the case and looked intelligent and relieved the Kerchers from being drug through the face saving Prosecution persecution.

Instead the Incompetent Squad spent so much time trying to frame innocents into a bizarre event. Why bizarre? because to try to force some fictional crime vision into the prosecutors accusations required a large pile of garbage evidence and incompetence to accomplish the goal of supporting the accusations.

It all starts with Migninni and Edgardo Giobbi using their gut instinct to convict, then the Lying Squad and their black-hole interrogation methods coercion and pressuring a couple of pot head innocent kids without lawyers present.

If you were locked up abroad for doing nothing, would you return? Who would return to a hostile environment with backwards laws and a massive false media that's painted you as a fictional murderer?

Its more a Fear of a Corrupt and Incompetent Legal system she doesn't go back.
 
Its too bad the press and Guilters of the Flying Migninni Squad didn't spend so much time interrogating and studying Rudy Guede....they could have actually solved the case and looked intelligent and relieved the Kerchers from being drug through the face saving Prosecution persecution.

Instead the Incompetent Squad spent so much time trying to frame innocents into a bizarre event. Why bizarre? because to try to force some fictional crime vision into the prosecutors accusations required a large pile of garbage evidence and incompetence to accomplish the goal of supporting the accusations.

It all starts with Migninni and Edgardo Giobbi using their gut instinct to convict, then the Lying Squad and their black-hole interrogation methods coercion and pressuring a couple of pot head innocent kids without lawyers present.

If you were locked up abroad for doing nothing, would you return? Who would return to a hostile environment with backwards laws and a massive false media that's painted you as a fictional murderer?

Its more a Fear of a Corrupt and Incompetent Legal system she doesn't go back.
He's just trolling and/or being sarcastic. Just about anyone who has looked at the Knox case, and especially anyone who claims to be a skeptic and critical thinker, should understand how dysfunctional and corrupt the prosecution of Knox and Sollecito has been.

If I was Knox, I wouldn't ever go near Italy again in my lifetime. Even if she gets acquitted a second time, you never know what some half baked authority with a grudge might do. Italy's a neat place, but there are plenty of neat places in the world to visit.
 
It simply isn’t irrelevant to this case at this point; the appeal in Florence hasn’t taken place yet!

Please re-read my post I stated that the US is not a signatory to International Court of Justice (ICJ) and that is no more relevant than these ECHR violations against Italy that are never specified.

Italy denied the human rights of a group of Somalia’s when they were forcibly returned Libya; there you go an ECHR violation, relevance?

Can you provide an example of an ECHR violation against Italy that is relevant to this case?

Here is a quote...

12. It has been shown that, eighteen days after the lodging of the complaint, on 11 June 2003, the police raided the house in Ghislarengo, found the first applicant there and made a number of arrests. At about 2 p.m. that day, she was taken to a police station in Vercelli and questioned, in the presence of an interpreter, by two female and two male police officers. The applicants alleged that she was treated roughly and threatened that she would be accused of perjury and libel if she did not tell the truth. Allegedly she was then forced to declare that she did not wish her supposed kidnappers to be prosecuted, to answer “yes” to all other questions, and to sign certain documents in Italian, which she did not understand and which were neither translated into Bulgarian nor given to her. They also alleged that the interpreter did not do her job properly and remained silent in the face of the treatment being inflicted. The applicants further alleged that Y. was present during certain parts of the first applicant’s questioning.

13. Later that day, the third applicant was questioned by the police in Vercelli in the presence of an interpreter. The third applicant alleged that she was also threatened that she would be accused of perjury and libel if she did not tell the truth, and that the interpreter did not do her job properly. She claimed that, as she refused to sign the record, the police treated her badly.

14. At about 10 p.m. on the same day the first applicant was questioned again. The applicants alleged that no interpreter or lawyer was present and
that the first applicant was unaware of what was recorded.

This is an interesting case of a young girl from Bulgaria that was a victim of human trafficking and sexual abuse, made complaints to the Italian authorities who instead of investigating the complaints came up with a theory that she was married to one of the guys and arrested her for libel and perjury. The ruling eventually came down against Italy on an ineffective investigation. Very interesting case.

http://view.officeapps.live.com/op/.../originale/CASE_OF_M_AND_OTHERS_v_ITALY_A.doc

http://strasbourgobservers.com/2012...ion-part-i-m-and-others-v-italy-and-bulgaria/
 
work release might happen as early as next year

I don't know about corrupt, but maybe incompetent. After all, they let a convicted murderer go free. How much more incompetent can you get?
TCS,

You are getting ahead of events. Rudy will not be released until 2014 at the earliest. He might even have to serve a whole 16 years for sexual assault and murder.

RoseMontague, Nice find.
 
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Please re-read my post I stated that the US is not a signatory to International Court of Justice (ICJ) and that is no more relevant than these ECHR violations against Italy that are never specified.

Whether or not the US has joined this ICJ is totally irrelevant to this case.

ECHR violations by Italy are relevant and they are many of them. In particular, dealing with speedy and fair trials. There doesn't seem to be much doubt that Italy has a serious problem with its justice system. It seems like any Italian would admit that. But, people seem to want to believe that these problems are absent from the Kercher matter because . . . well, I guess because outsiders are involved and they might "lose face" if outsiders think what Italians think about the Italian justice system. Strange people.
 
Now she's refusing to return to Italy to face justice. Sounds like an admission of guilt to me.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/24/world/europe/amanda-knox-italy-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

This of course is one of the most moronic posts I've ever read.

The common argument associated with "fleeing from authority" as a "consciousness of guilt" is because an innocent person doesn't fear authority because they have no reason to believe that they will be prosecuted or convicted of something that they didn't do. This of course clearly doesn't apply to Amanda and Raffaele as both have spent 4 years in prison.

There is a monstrous difference between for example what Rudy did and what Amanda and Raffaele are doing now.

Rudy fled when no one was chasing. That is a clear demonstration of a conscience of guilt. Amanda and Raffaele hung around NEVER thinking that they would be accused of the murder.

Amanda Knox's decision to not to return to Italy is much more an honest evaluation of the crazy Italian justice. This is a country that convicted scientists of a crime for failing to predict an earthquake.
 
This of course is one of the most moronic posts I've ever read.

The common argument associated with "fleeing from authority" as a "consciousness of guilt" is because an innocent person doesn't fear authority because they have no reason to believe that they will be prosecuted or convicted of something that they didn't do. This of course clearly doesn't apply to Amanda and Raffaele as both have spent 4 years in prison.

There is a monstrous difference between for example what Rudy did and what Amanda and Raffaele are doing now.

Rudy fled when no one was chasing. That is a clear demonstration of a conscience of guilt. Amanda and Raffaele hung around NEVER thinking that they would be accused of the murder.

Amanda Knox's decision to not to return to Italy is much more an honest evaluation of the crazy Italian justice. This is a country that convicted scientists of a crime for failing to predict an earthquake.
The best thing a person can do if they are truly innocent but are under suspicion of a crime is to lawyer up and NEVER voluntarily go to the police station for an interview without one. In this current incarnation of the Knox case, there is no telling what legal shenanigans the prosecution could pull to re-imprison her b/c this case isn't about justice, it's about the prosecution team saving face.
 
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