Merged Intermittent Fasting -- Good Idea or Not?

Don,

try a whole lot of veggies and a chicken portion, or a piece of salmon, for your dinner. You'll feel a lot more full than with your salad. In fact, take away the potatoes and it is pretty much a normal evening meal.

Are you eating lunch instead of breakfast? I have a bowl of unsweetened porridge with some sultanas or blueberries for breakfast, (occasionally I'll have scrambled eggs), nothing during the day other than a couple of cups of tea and lots of water, then a variation on the meal I just described for dinner.

I see you run. Well, I cycle. One of the things I have found is that cycling on a fast day is brilliant for throwing off weight. I am now on a 6:1, but when I was trying to lose weight I always went for a ride on my fast days, because your body then has to fuel the effort ONLY from your stored fat. It obviously can't use any food in your system, as there is none. It doesn't seem to affect the miles you can do, either, although sometimes the speed isn't quite as high.

Oh, and although I only ever weighed food once, before the first fast (so I am not anal about every last calorie), I do think it is really important to keep a really good record of your weight and waist measurements. I stuck my graph on my desktop, and it was quite motivating to see the progress.

Mike
 
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MikeG said:
Don,

try a whole lot of veggies and a chicken portion, or a piece of salmon, for your dinner. You'll feel a lot more full than with your salad. In fact, take away the potatoes and it is pretty much a normal evening meal.

Are you eating lunch instead of breakfast? I have a bowl of unsweetened porridge with some sultanas or blueberries for breakfast, (occasionally I'll have scrambled eggs), nothing during the day other than a couple of cups of tea and lots of water, then a variation on the meal I just described for dinner.

I see you run. Well, I cycle. One of the things I have found is that cycling on a fast day is brilliant for throwing off weight. I am now on a 6:1, but when I was trying to lose weight I always went for a ride on my fast days, because your body then has to fuel the effort ONLY from your stored fat. It obviously can't use any food in your system, as there is none. It doesn't seem to affect the miles you can do, either, although sometimes the speed isn't quite as high.

Oh, and although I only ever weighed food once, before the first fast (so I am not anal about every last calorie), I do think it is really important to keep a really good record of your weight and waist measurements. I stuck my graph on my desktop, and it was quite motivating to see the progress.

Mike
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You do cardio on an empty stomach?
I did that (cycling) once a decade ago and I got really sick and woozy.
Ended up puking by the side of the road.
 
No problem at all. Not the slightest. I ride 40 to 50 miles at 15 to 16 MPH average speed (and this on an old touring bike)....so I am not out on a Saturday afternoon potter-about-the-countryside session.

Mike
 
Ditto for me. the 2:5 diet doesn't get in the way of my cycling or rowing / kayaking either. I have started using cordials or lime/lemon juice in my water on fast days, where I'd normally just use water when cycling or rowing.
 
MikeG said:
I see you run. Well, I cycle. One of the things I have found is that cycling on a fast day is brilliant for throwing off weight. I am now on a 6:1, but when I was trying to lose weight I always went for a ride on my fast days, because your body then has to fuel the effort ONLY from your stored fat. It obviously can't use any food in your system, as there is none. It doesn't seem to affect the miles you can do, either, although sometimes the speed isn't quite as high.
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EHocking said:
Ditto for me. the 2:5 diet doesn't get in the way of my cycling or rowing / kayaking either. I have started using cordials or lime/lemon juice in my water on fast days, where I'd normally just use water when cycling or rowing.
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Delurking to ask - did you have to get used to cycling on a fast day, or were you able to do it from the start? I have been contemplating the 5+2 diet, but what put me very much against it is that I often cycle to work, about 5 miles each way, and I can barely cycle in the morning without having breakfast; there is no way I'd be able to cycle back from work having skipped lunch.
 
Tanja said:
Delurking to ask - did you have to get used to cycling on a fast day, or were you able to do it from the start? I have been contemplating the 5+2 diet, but what put me very much against it is that I often cycle to work, about 5 miles each way, and I can barely cycle in the morning without having breakfast; there is no way I'd be able to cycle back from work having skipped lunch.
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I was OK from the start, but that said, I've found I have a fair degree of tolerance for long distance cycling, 50 to 100 miles a day for touring, or just 25 miles for a training session.

We found that my wife, who is new at cycling, seems to lose it when her blood sugar drops (coincidental, it may be) and would literally throw her bike in the bushes in frustration. A Mars bar or similar would keep her upright and happy.

She is also now on the 5:2 diet and, similarly, if she has a piece of fruit, that keeps her upright now. She will also go to either pilates or yoga on a fast day with no hesitation either. She tends to have porridge in the morning, maybe a mandarin at lunch and pilates or yoga is before dinner.

Short answer is, if I drink enough fluids, I'm usually OK exercising on fast days. In fact I had to include exercise on fast days as I'm working on a buggered rotator cuff.
 
Tanja said:
Delurking to ask - did you have to get used to cycling on a fast day, or were you able to do it from the start? I have been contemplating the 5+2 diet, but what put me very much against it is that I often cycle to work, about 5 miles each way, and I can barely cycle in the morning without having breakfast; there is no way I'd be able to cycle back from work having skipped lunch.
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Tanja, I did it right from the start.

It is actually hugely revealing. I have been a sportsman all my life, and I have always been taught that you need a constant intake of fuel to power you through your endeavours.......and it's bunkum! Cycling on a fast day is virtually identical to cycling on any other day.

I couldn't believe it when I first tried it. I even took some fruit with me in case I started getting light-headed or anything, but I not only didn't need it, I actually felt really lively on the bike.

Quite the most counter-intuitive thing about the Fast diet is how easy it is. You'll get a few hunger pangs around the time you would normally have lunch, but they last just a few minutes. Have a drink of water, and clean your teeth, and they disappear (that works, I promise!). Otherwise, life goes on just exactly as it did before, and you don't notice any difference at all other than that your clothes don't fit any more.

My wife's running club are almost all on the regime. Not that most of them need to lose much weight, but mainly for the health benefits. These are serious runners, doing races year round. Almost everyone fasts on a Monday, and that is the day that they go for a 6 to 8 mile run in the evening. Some of them always record their times, and they report not the slightest change in their performance since they started running on fast days.

Incidentally, as my wife doesn't get back from running club until 9pm, this means that we fast from about 6.30am breakfast to 9.00 pm dinner.....and it's easy. Try it.

Mike
 
EHocking said:
She is also now on the 5:2 diet and, similarly, if she has a piece of fruit, that keeps her upright now. She will also go to either pilates or yoga on a fast day with no hesitation either. She tends to have porridge in the morning, maybe a mandarin at lunch and pilates or yoga is before dinner.
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I'd be careful with the yoga. With all the moving the head from an inverted to a vertical position, it's easy to get light-headed when practicing yoga.

Every time one of my yoga students gets really dizzy (one once passed out), I've asked when their last meal was and what they ate, invariably it was a small breakfast. Just yesterday one of the girls was very woozy, this was around 6pm and I asked her what she ate that day, she said "2 apples".

I had the same experience myself, extremely light-headed during yoga practice, many times, after skipping lunch and doing an evening yoga class. One day I passed out. I stopped skipping lunch and never had that problem again (this was more than ten years ago).

I don't know about other forms of exercise, as it's generally when coming up from a position where the head is below the heart back to a standing position that people get dizzy or faint, and you don't do that often in cycling, but in yoga... just something to be careful with.
 
I know this thread is getting long, but it might be a good idea to at least skim the first two pages of this thread and check out some of the links.

Just some highlights:

Bruto had mentioned that while many people feel better on the 5:2 diet, people who work with dangerous machinery or travel on busy highways may have to avoid alternate fasting for obvious reasons. See his posts #27 and #30.

On a lighter note, some people may not be fit to live or work with -- literally --while fasting. See Eddie Dane's post #20. :)

There are studies indicating that some women, especially premenopausal women, do not benefit from the 5:2 diets. See the links to the paleo web sites in the second half of my post #35.

There are alternatives to alternate fasting (5:2 or 6:1 diets) that also claim to have positive effects on our bodies hormones. Some people may find it easier to adopt one of those diets than an alternate fasting days diet.

1) Restricted time eating, that is -- eat every day but restrict the number of hours that one eats each day. Depending upon the study, that can vary from 5 hours a day to even 10 or 12 hours a day with women apparently getting the same benefits from a shorter fasting period that men get from a longer faster period. The first half of my post #35 links to an article summarizing a relevant study by Panda. Malicus in post #4 and Tatyana in post #10 refer to the Leangrains website which advocates this type of diet.

It seems that most people who go for restricted eating prefer to skip breakfast instead of dinner. Prof Yaffle had linked to an article which in turn linked to a study asserting that people who skip breakfast over a long period of time are more likely to develop type 2 diabetes. See post #19. Just another example of how studies in the area of human nutrition often conflict. However, I thought Tatyana's explanation that perhaps most people who skip breakfast don't eat healthily the rest of the day, and that may account for the difference.

2) Carb Frequency Restriction Program where only starchy carbs are restricted to one meal per day. See my post #66.

Happy reading. :)
 
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Roboramma said:
I'd be careful with the yoga. With all the moving the head from an inverted to a vertical position, it's easy to get light-headed when practicing yoga.

Every time one of my yoga students gets really dizzy (one once passed out), I've asked when their last meal was and what they ate, invariably it was a small breakfast. Just yesterday one of the girls was very woozy, this was around 6pm and I asked her what she ate that day, she said "2 apples".

I had the same experience myself, extremely light-headed during yoga practice, many times, after skipping lunch and doing an evening yoga class. One day I passed out. I stopped skipping lunch and never had that problem again (this was more than ten years ago).
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I'm with you, my wife is more prone to light headedness than myself and used to experience low blood pressure when exercising - but the diet hasn't bothered her on any exercise she has been doing.

I guess this is going to be a personal experience thing.
I don't know about other forms of exercise, as it's generally when coming up from a position where the head is below the heart back to a standing position that people get dizzy or faint, and you don't do that often in cycling
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I got that cycling when I stood up after being hit by a delivery van, but I guess that's not what you meant...:D
 
Just competed 15 miles on my bike, fasting. It was perfect, didn't feel tired at all!
 
I am a little puzzled about the popularity of muesli. Uncooked oats are so much more calorie dense than cooked oats.
 
Kaylee said:
I am a little puzzled about the popularity of muesli. Uncooked oats are so much more calorie dense than cooked oats.
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Per gm, yes, but that's true of all dried foods. If you equate 50gm of dried oats with 50gm of cooked oats then it might be time to seek advice over diet plans.
 
Kaylee said:
I am a little puzzled about the popularity of muesli. Uncooked oats are so much more calorie dense than cooked oats.
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The calories in uncooked oats may be far less accessible; it's true of most veg.
 
commandlinegamer said:
I got the picture when breakfasting at a hostel in Germany. No sugar at all in the muesli. Compare that to the packaged stuff you get here. Loaded with it.
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I get muesli with no added sugar - but there is fruit sugar in the dried fruit, naturally. Can't stand that sweetened stuff, like 'Alpen'.
 
Kaylee said:
I am a little puzzled about the popularity of muesli. Uncooked oats are so much more calorie dense than cooked oats.
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One aspect of this might be that uncooked oats, if they're good to start with, are rather tasty and satisfying, whereas cooked oats are...well, they're just a bowl of oatmeal.
 
GlennB said:
Per gm, yes, but that's true of all dried foods. If you equate 50gm of dried oats with 50gm of cooked oats then it might be time to seek advice over diet plans.
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I don't eat dried foods usually, because they are calorie dense. I occasionally make an exception when I don't have time to eat. For those days I'll have 2 tablespoons of nuts and half a dozen dried apricots or something similar. Takes no time to prepare, hardly anytime to eat and through trial and error I found its one of a handful of food combos that will keep me going for a while.

Are uncooked oats or muesli suppose to have some special health benefits?

:confused:

dlorde said:
The calories in uncooked oats may be far less accessible; it's true of most veg.
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Interesting, thanks. I've not been taking that into account in my calorie tracking. I'll have to look into this.

ETA: I didn't get very far via googling and I'd really like to know how far off my calorie tracking is. I started a new thread about this question here:
Calorie Counting Question
 
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