New TWA Flight 800 film coming out

[thedopefishlives]

It would be easier and more secure to just have a fighter intercept Flight 800 and shoot it down. It cuts out experimental missiles, submarines and such. It leaves out people reporting they saw something 'rising' but then, so does the Kamikaze idea.

The thing that gets me about CTers is how they don't realize the way they so readily espouse whatever flavor-of-the-minute theory best fits the subset of evidence being discussed at the time makes them sound completely insane. You can't just jump between 3 different theories at the same time, depending on which aspect of the case we're talking about. That's not how it works. "These three theories all fit the combined evidence, therefore all three of them happened at the same time" has got to be some kind of special logical fallacy.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Well, you got to have a Plan B or Plan C

If the Kamikaze doesn't get him and the missile from Atlanta doesn't get him then the Sub will get him.
If that fails we use the bomb in the fuel tank!

 

[thedopefishlives]

Well, you got to have a Plan B or Plan C

If the Kamikaze doesn't get him and the missile from Atlanta doesn't get him then the Sub will get him.
If that fails we use the bomb in the fuel tank!

If you're firing missiles from Atlanta, you're doin' it wrong. You're supposed to fire them AT Atlanta instead.

 

[AtomicDog]

Hey! I resemble that!

-AtomicDog, Atlanta resident.

 

[Jetblast]

With three warheads hitting it why was there any of the plane left?

Have you seen the wreckage? That plane doesn't look like it is in too good shape to me.

 

[jhunter1163]

Have you seen the wreckage? That plane doesn't look like it is in too good shape to me.

You do realize that the effect of hitting water at 200 knots is not really all that different from the effect of hitting concrete?

 

[thedopefishlives]

Since you seem to have returned for another day of festivities, would you mind providing the report and/or testimony of the Long Island Coroner that you have relied upon in your attempts to prove your case? I note that you have been studiously avoiding even responding to my request, let alone in an affirmative fashion.

 

[JayUtah]

Have you seen the wreckage? That plane doesn't look like it is in too good shape to me.

Compared to ... ?

 

[JayUtah]

You do realize that the effect of hitting water at 200 knots is not really all that different from the effect of hitting concrete?

Quite true. Also, the results of hitting water or concrete at high speed are visually distinct from the results of proximity high-order detonations, and in turn from internal deflagrations. Even simple things like the fracture boundaries have tell-tale characteristics.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Compared to ... ?

The numerous plane wrecks he has examined.

 

[Jetblast]

We know the Trepang was playing with the P-3. We know the Wyoming was conducting a shakedown cruise. That leaves Albuquerque by herself. Subs by themselves do not play with other subs. Especially at 8:30 PM at night. At 8:30 PM at night the School of the Boat has been dismissed and the qualified submariners are 30 minutes into watching the evening movie.

Most of your responses are just your own offhand assurances spoken with a voice of Navy experience authority but the near-shore warship's obvious existence pretty much puts your credibility to rest.

Most likely the 3 subs were part of some kind of classified missile test maneuver. When it went wrong they did their usual tricks and made cover-stories. You want us to believe your offerings are genuine however anyone can see what you are avoiding. You ask us to produce proof of their maneuvers. Sure. Really, your newsreel propaganda about the crew watching the evening movie is too much in my opinion.

As I said before, the Navy will be happy to know they have a 275 mile range anti-aircraft missile.

A missile was launched from Virginia that evening.

Citation needed.

FBI head acknowledges terrorist missile could have brought TWA jet down

Kallstrom admits three Navy ships were closer to the TWA explosion than the USS Normandy

Excerpt from a RealAudio interview of James Kallstrom by Reed Irvine of Accuracy In Media.





IRVINE: Let's open up the report, lets open up the record, lets take out the secrecy. That's the point.

KALLSTROM: Ya, I think it would be good to do that at this point now that the criminal case is not open. But it's in the hands of NTSB...

IRVINE: Hay, the bureau [FBI] just sent [Congressman] Trafficant a letter saying they couldn't identify three vessels that were in the vicinity for privacy reasons - come on.

KALLSTROM: Well, ya. Well, we all know what those were. In fact, I even spoke about those publicly.

IRVINE: What were they?

KALLSTROM: They were Navy vessels that were on classified maneuvers.

IRVINE: What about the one that went racing out to sea at 30 knots?

KALLSTROM: That was a helicopter.

IRVINE: On the surface?

I did explain it. You just have to read it with an open mind.

I think Kallstrom explained it. Which once again puts your casual, authoritative explanations to rest in my opinion.

 

[Jetblast]

It shows you can't identify the nose gear from the main gear by the number of tires each carriage has.

But you are diverting from the subject.


I've asked you several times to answer how the undamaged tire you show in your photo conflicts with the shredded nose gear tire and you've avoided it. The fact you show a nearly undamaged tire from Flight 800 yet the nose gear tire was shredded means you have to come up with an explanation for the difference between the two.

 

[Jetblast]

Sure. Makes absolute sense.


Someone tell me why I've been arguing with this guy?

The slow blip being an aircraft is a good point you can't answer isn't it? The investigation said it was a radar shadow.

 

[Jetblast]

Yes I put myself before them. They never saw the missile launch and cruise to the target. They don't know there was a missile at all.
There certainly is no way an AA missile at 10 miles sent any kind of blast or shock-wave to them.

I have watched missiles launch and destroy their targets. I have been on the receiving end of air attacks that delivered much bigger ordnance and I| have seen, felt and heard it explode close by. I have felt the shock of a sister ship exploding when a 500 lb bomb dropped earlier that penetrated the hull without detonating has exploded while a team were trying to make it safe.

I know when someone is mistaken or spouting BS about this.

Fred Meyer did.


Meyer, Angelides (an engineer), and Wire trumps a clown.


These people were there. You weren't.

 

[carlitos]

An update:

• Jetblast has cited Jack Cashill's book First Strike as a source for his theories on what happened to TWA 800.
• I wrote Mr. Cashill a note with a link to the bomb calculator and how ridiculous those claims are.
• Mr. Cashill hasn't replied to my email.
• Mr. Cashill wrote a book that claimed that William Ayers wrote President Obama's two books.
• I presume that the discipline require to ascertain whether this guy or that guy wrote a book would be Forensic Linguistics^WP.
• Our "Jetblast" uses the word "forensics" and the fairly idiosyncratic phrase "linguistic forensics" with some frequency.

Things that make you go hmm...

 

[Jetblast]

So all that talk of Mach 4 Ejecta and the explosion of an AA missile shaking a bridge 10 miles away are redundant, you think it was a Kamikaze attack?

The context was the Naval assets were trying to shoot down the suicide aircraft but shot too late.

 

[thedopefishlives]

The context was the Naval assets were trying to shoot down the suicide aircraft but shot too late.

You have absolutely, positively got to be kidding me. This is your grand theory? Fine. Show the radar returns that depict this "al Qaeda suicide aircraft".

 

[JayUtah]

Meyer, Angelides (an engineer), and Wire trumps a clown.

Asked and answered. I'm also an engineer, but you ignore what I say. You treat expert opinion selectively, in favor of your pre-existing belief.

These people were there. You weren't.

Those people aren't here. You are. You can either support your claims here or you cannot. You're the one invoking them to support your claims. Telling us we have to direct our rebuttals to someone else is disingenuous.

 

[Jetblast]

Except it still doesn't explain why a small aircraft full of high explsoives still didn't send fragments of said small aircraft into the 747. Maybe the suicide pilot secured the explosives onto the top of this aircraft with tie straps?

I admit that's a good question, however the debris field was controlled.


By the way, is your continuous-rod missile a non-shrapnel missile? You said there were no non-shrapnel missiles.

 

[Sideroxylon]

An update:

• Jetblast has cited Jack Cashill's book First Strike as a source for his theories on what happened to TWA 800.
• I wrote Mr. Cashill a note with a link to the bomb calculator and how ridiculous those claims are.
• Mr. Cashill hasn't replied to my email.
• Mr. Cashill wrote a book that claimed that William Ayers wrote President Obama's two books.
• I presume that the discipline require to ascertain whether this guy or that guy wrote a book would be Forensic Linguistics^WP.
• Our "Jetblast" uses the word "forensics" and the fairly idiosyncratic phrase "linguistic forensics" with some frequency.

Things that make you go hmm...

That's some interesting forensic linguistics work.