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Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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Here is an example of a petite woman who couldn't comfortably reach around her her tall boyfriends waist. You are grasping here. Even Sollecito wrote Amanda's behavior made him uncomfortable at the Questura.

So? Some people aren't comfortable with PDA at all. I've had girl friends that were a little physically clingy and never felt that comfortable with it. That doesn't make it strange. Who gets to determine what is strange Briars? You? Me? Who? The real question isn't whether Amanda's behavior made Raffaele uncomfortable, the question is, is it something that a murderer would do? HARDLY.
 
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So?? The real question isn't whether Amanda's behavior made Raffaele uncomfortable, the question is, is it something that a murderer would do? HARDLY.

Cops have to learn to deal with difficult images year in year out and can hardly be compared to someone who's 'good friend' was just murdered. Yes some murderers behave in ways that defy rational. Karla holmolka was more concerned that police had broken her new wine glasses while searching her home.
 
In fairness, Wildhorses, CoulsdonUK was getting his information from Peter Quennell's "True Justice for Meredith Kercher" website. Quennell has run a multi-year PR campaign against EVERYTHING to do with Ms. Knox and Mr Sollecito, and anyone who has supported them.

Quennell quite rightly predicted the ISC reversal of the Hellmann acquittals. Yet he was pooh-poohed for suggesting that Galati's appeal brief was based mainly on appeals to review of evidence something the ISC was not supposed to even be considering.

CoulsdonUK has said his main reason for posting is to keep Meredith's memory front and centre, while the whole world goes ga-ga about Amanda Knox. He's resisted actually expressing an opinion on the two innocents and what they should "get", although he also summarizes the case in barest terms - the things he quotes are the decisions and seems mystified that anyone would comment beyond that - for instance with all the concern about whether or not the ISC overstepped its bounds, he asked for commentary if this decision was unique or if there are other similarly (claimed) controversial decisions.

He seems unphased by Italy leading the league in appeals to the European Court of Human Rights.

But this business of claiming that the Hellmann decision would fall to "Galati's connections" is not really CoulsdonUK's. It comes from Quennell. In my view it has put them into a bit of a double bind. They have to claim that Italy is a non-corrupt system, all except Hellmann and Zanetti, who others claim accepted Masonic bribes to let Knox and Sollecito go. They claim to even know the amount of the bribe to the nearest Euro.

I think CoulsdonUK merely passes on what he reads at TJMK. I suppose that's not much of a criticism, because few of us possess first hand information anyway, and are victims of our own confirmation biases and such.

He and Mary_H agreed on something a few pages back. I almost feel over.
Hello Bill

Please provide evidence that anything I have stated was even written on TJMK when I posted. For example I made a comment about Raffaele apply for US citizenship a few days later I noticed a post on IA stating exactly that.

I peruse sites on both sides of this case which seems prudent and also interesting.
 
Cops have to learn to deal with difficult images year in year out and can hardly be compared to someone who's 'good friend' was just murdered. Yes some murderers behave in ways that defy rational. Karla holmolka was more concerned that police had broken her new wine glasses while searching her home.

Well we agree that cops have to deal with some difficult images. But it's not like Meredith's body was there in front of Amanda. This was Amanda putting on booties maybe hours later or was it the next day?

I remember the day my mom died like it was yesterday . That was over 30 years ago. I was 15. And I bawled my eyes out. but not every moment of that day or the next day. In fact I even played golf the next day. Which was really weird. But on the other hand sitting around being emotional is weird too.

In fact it is difficult to be emotional for hours on end. It is draining and tiring and you need relief so an inappropriate laugh in fact or bad joke is PERFECTLY NORMAL.

And for all the talk about Amanda being friends with Meredith which I think they were, they weren't life long friends. They knew each other like two people who knew each other all of 40 days. They enjoyed each other's company but were they super tight as of yet? I'm sure that Amanda was saddened by Meredith's death, but I also don't think it compares to the loss of a close relative.

So you have to be looking at people suspiciously to think that anything Amanda did was suspicious. You have to jump to conclusions about innocent behavior.
 
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Well we agree that cops have to deal with some difficult images. But it's not like Meredith's body was there in front of Amanda. This was Amanda putting on booties maybe hours later or was it the next day?

I remember the day my mom died like it was yesterday . That was over 30 years ago. I was 15. And I bawled my eyes out. but not every moment of that day or the next day. In fact I even played golf the next day. Which was really weird. But on the other hand sitting around being emotional is weird too.

In fact it is difficult to be emotional for hours on end. It is draining and tiring and you need relief so an inappropriate laugh in fact or bad joke is PERFECTLY NORMAL.

And for all the talk about Amanda being friends with Meredith which I think they were, they weren't life long friends. They knew each other like two people who knew each other all of 40 days. They enjoyed each other's company but were they super tight as of yet? I'm sure that Amanda was saddened by Meredith's death, but I also don't think it compares to the loss of a close relative.

So you have to be looking at people suspiciously to think that anything Amanda did was suspicious. You have to jump to conclusions about innocent behavior.

There is no excuse for a 20 year old to giggle joke and kiss at the questura, She made everyone uncomfortable . You could argue that she is innocent an extreme narcissistic and cared more about not having the murder interfer with her fun . To argue that her behavior including her delayed retraction of her accusation against Lumumba was normal doesn't work.
 
To argue that her behavior including her delayed retraction of her accusation against Lumumba was normal doesn't work.

This is just a biased opinion. We all know now that coercive statements are created and this case is a perfect example.
Actually due to Migninni lying about the reasons why it wasn't taped makes it look more corrupt than in the beginning. Migninni stated it was not recorded due to budget cuts. Why would he lie?

The saddest part about this interrogation is it was done by those who are supposedly honest, but like Napoleoni and others we find they were booted out of office for being dishonest, finally caught and removed.

Coercion /koʊˈɜrʃən/ is the practice of forcing another party to act in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of intimidation or threats or some other form of pressure or force, and describes a set of various different similar types of forceful actions that violate the free will of an individual to induce a desired response.
 
There is no excuse for a 20 year old to giggle joke and kiss at the questura, She made everyone uncomfortable . You could argue that she is innocent an extreme narcissistic and cared more about not having the murder interfer with her fun . To argue that her behavior including her delayed retraction of her accusation against Lumumba was normal doesn't work.

Why?? Because you said so? Because the police said so? Why? Is there some kind of manual on what to do when your roommate is killed? You can argue that she was tone deaf, but your argument that she is narcissistic or guilty because of this event is absurd.
 
About the only thing Sherlock I would agree with about Amanda and her and Raffaele is that they stood out. Is it really unusual that they quickly determined that the only NON-ITALIAN as a suspect? Picking the stranger out of a the group is so typical for police it is almost cliche.

Not that anything they did was "strange". Just that the police were LAZY and prided themselves on intuition. This really tells you more about the detectives and the police than it does about Amanda and Raffaele. They were STUPID. These investigators are MORONS. They determine and locked onto the idea that the scene is staged. Not that they had any evidence that it was staged. Then they continued to misread the evidence. I have to wonder at what point did they seize upon Raffaele's shoes. I bet that was VERY DAMNING in their mind. If that was really a match to Raffaele's shoes, I would be 100 percent convinced of Raffaele's involvement.

I don't think a damn thing that Amanda and Raffaele did was suspicious or strange. Maybe both of them are unique people, but that is a good thing. Strange??? NO.
On the day Meredith was discovered there were a group of young people (friends and acquaintances) of a similar age from difference countries and cultures all reacting in a similar fashion to the realisation that someone they all knew had been murdered, in that context based on comments at the time Raffaele and Amanda’s behaviour were at odds that is to say different from everyone else.

Looking at one incident like the above one could say, so what. However, putting the various examples together I can understand why the police would have noticed. Indeed, the memorial held fort Meredith, I believe Raffaele and Amanda were the only friends or acquaintances who did not attend, I don’t think Filomena or Laura attended either but they weren’t students and had day jobs.
 
On the day Meredith was discovered there were a group of young people (friends and acquaintances) of a similar age from difference countries and cultures all reacting in a similar fashion to the realisation that someone they all knew had been murdered, in that context based on comments at the time Raffaele and Amanda’s behaviour were at odds that is to say different from everyone else.

Looking at one incident like the above one could say, so what. However, putting the various examples together I can understand why the police would have noticed. Indeed, the memorial held fort Meredith, I believe Raffaele and Amanda were the only friends or acquaintances who did not attend, I don’t think Filomena or Laura attended either but they weren’t students and had day jobs.

Just because a bunch of kids who weren't roommates and hadn't been up day and night being questioned held a memorial and Amanda and Raffaele didn't come does not really make it strange or unusual. If you were in their shoes, can you honestly say that you would have went to this? I bet you easily would have avoided it yourself. Amanda and Raffale would have stood out like a couple of sore thumbs and been bombarded with attention. The fact that you are willing to give Laura and Filomena a pass means that you are being selectively judgmental.
 
There is no excuse for a 20 year old to giggle joke and kiss at the questura, She made everyone uncomfortable . You could argue that she is innocent an extreme narcissistic and cared more about not having the murder interfer with her fun . To argue that her behavior including her delayed retraction of her accusation against Lumumba was normal doesn't work.

Briars, what inferences do you draw from her conduct at the questura?
 
Hello Bill

Please provide evidence that anything I have stated was even written on TJMK when I posted. For example I made a comment about Raffaele apply for US citizenship a few days later I noticed a post on IA stating exactly that.

I peruse sites on both sides of this case which seems prudent and also interesting.

Wow. Provide evidence of a belief of mine!?

Maybe we should hold Mr. Mignini to that standard. Maybe we should pass that standard on to Ms. Stefanoni about the release of the EDF's.

I'll withdraw my belief about you if you'd like. I just noticed that you were making the same argument about Galati's appeal that Peter Quennell was making. Maybe this means that Mr. Quennell got it from you!?

I'll withdraw it and kindly ask that you at least address Mr. Wildhorses's allegations, rather than say, "provide proof". You can deny it better than that.
 
Briars said:
There is no excuse for a 20 year old to giggle joke and kiss at the questura, She made everyone uncomfortable . You could argue that she is innocent an extreme narcissistic and cared more about not having the murder interfer with her fun . To argue that her behavior including her delayed retraction of her accusation against Lumumba was normal doesn't work.

Briars, what inferences do you draw from her conduct at the questura?
Also, What crime would you charge her with? Insensitivity to the Brits? Or murder?
 
Just because a bunch of kids who weren't roommates and hadn't been up day and night being questioned held a memorial and Amanda and Raffaele didn't come does not really make it strange or unusual. If you were in their shoes, can you honestly say that you would have went to this? I bet you easily would have avoided it yourself. Amanda and Raffale would have stood out like a couple of sore thumbs and been bombarded with attention. The fact that you are willing to give Laura and Filomena a pass means that you are being selectively judgmental.
The first example I gave was on the day Meredith was discovered so at that time Raffaele and Amanda as far as I can recall hadn’t questioned any more than anyone else who knew Meredith. As I indicated I can understand why the difference in their reaction would have been noticed by the police.

I am not cutting Filomena and Laura any slack just pointing out that they weren’t students and had day jobs; do you know whether any other friends or acquaintances didn’t attend the memorial? It’s not relevant what you or I would have done we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

The point I am making is the difference in their reaction would have been noticed by any experienced homicide detective.
 
Also, What crime would you charge her with? Insensitivity to the Brits? Or murder?

Aaaaahhh that age old relationship between the Yanks and the Brits. One of the strangest in history. We've fought with and against on several occasion. Kind of like a couple of siblings. Occasionally the French have had to get involved but they are more like the neighbor kid who just doesn't get the incestuous relationship.
 
Wow. Provide evidence of a belief of mine!?

Maybe we should hold Mr. Mignini to that standard. Maybe we should pass that standard on to Ms. Stefanoni about the release of the EDF's.

I'll withdraw my belief about you if you'd like. I just noticed that you were making the same argument about Galati's appeal that Peter Quennell was making. Maybe this means that Mr. Quennell got it from you!?

I'll withdraw it and kindly ask that you at least address Mr. Wildhorses's allegations, rather than say, "provide proof". You can deny it better than that.
As I said I made a comment here about Raffaele seeking American citizenship, Grinder posted why this would or couldn’t work but within a week someone posted on IA that he should be given citizenship because of this case.

I'll respond but I'll do so in private message.
 
There is no excuse for a 20 year old to giggle joke and kiss at the questura, She made everyone uncomfortable . You could argue that she is innocent an extreme narcissistic and cared more about not having the murder interfer with her fun . To argue that her behavior including her delayed retraction of her accusation against Lumumba was normal doesn't work.

Bliars, I totally agree but these guys reaction to just saying she acted strange is unbelievable, they just can't say, 'yes, she acted strangely' and be done with it, they have to argue, that's what they do, they will change around everything you say as well, and then add a 'what does that have to do with the murder', complete denial, hilarious. Where Grinder when you need him?
 
The first example I gave was on the day Meredith was discovered so at that time Raffaele and Amanda as far as I can recall hadn’t questioned any more than anyone else who knew Meredith. As I indicated I can understand why the difference in their reaction would have been noticed by the police.

I am not cutting Filomena and Laura any slack just pointing out that they weren’t students and had day jobs; do you know whether any other friends or acquaintances didn’t attend the memorial? It’s not relevant what you or I would have done we have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

The point I am making is the difference in their reaction would have been noticed by any experienced homicide detective.

Really? The homicide detective would have had to have been a moron to attribute any significance to this event. What date was the memorial? How many hours had Amanda and Raffaele been questioned? Amanda was now staying at Raffaele's considering she couldn't go back to the cottage. She didn't have any clothes. Amanda's world had to be turned upside down at this point. No, to think this means ANYTHING at all would make you an idiot.
 
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Bliars, I totally agree but these guys reaction to just saying she acted strange is unbelievable, they just can't say, 'yes, she acted strangely' and be done with it, they have to argue, that's what they do, they will change around everything you say as well, and then add a 'what does that have to do with the murder', complete denial, hilarious. Where Grinder when you need him?

If anything is hilarious it's your and Briars' resort to innuendo instead of argument. Please explain, if not to me then to whoever is not on your ignore list just now, what inferences we are supposed to draw from the supposedly strange behaviour.

This is not for Sherlock particularly but one of the 'strange' things is supposed to have been Amanda's preoccupation with her own safety. How unfeeling! Surely this is not normal! Nobody attacker her. She was in no danger. What selfishness! But it was the English girls who stayed up all night unable to sleep and then ran away home rather than stay a minute longer. Was that 'normal'?
 
CoulsdonUK said:
On the day Meredith was discovered there were a group of young people (friends and acquaintances) of a similar age from difference countries and cultures all reacting in a similar fashion to the realisation that someone they all knew had been murdered, in that context based on comments at the time Raffaele and Amanda’s behaviour were at odds that is to say different from everyone else.

Looking at one incident like the above one could say, so what. However, putting the various examples together I can understand why the police would have noticed. Indeed, the memorial held fort Meredith, I believe Raffaele and Amanda were the only friends or acquaintances who did not attend, I don’t think Filomena or Laura attended either but they weren’t students and had day jobs.

Just because a bunch of kids who weren't roommates and hadn't been up day and night being questioned held a memorial and Amanda and Raffaele didn't come does not really make it strange or unusual. If you were in their shoes, can you honestly say that you would have went to this? I bet you easily would have avoided it yourself. Amanda and Raffale would have stood out like a couple of sore thumbs and been bombarded with attention. The fact that you are willing to give Laura and Filomena a pass means that you are being selectively judgmental.

Seldom does a more bald-faced display of confirmation bias slip past a poster.

Just stay with that highlighted part for a minute. <pause> C'mon, stay with it, don't rush it.

Let's now build a similar case against Filomena, another person completely and totally innocent of this horrible crime. And why not, there are those out there intent on building non-existent cases against Knox and Sollecito.

Fictional conversation back at the Questura, evening of Nov 5.

Memo from Napoleoni to PM Mignini:

We need to assemble an all night interrogation beginning tonight. I think I can close this case, based on what Giobbi says is keen observation of behaviour.

We need to summon Ms. Romanelli and her boyfriend to the Questura.

I strongly suspect that Filomena Romanelli is involved in this. Why? Well, Italian TV recorded Filomena's boyfriend rubbing her buttocks outside the cottage on the very afternoon that Ms. Kercher was found. Is this the behaviour of someone who is grieving the lass of a roommate?

Also, Ms. Romanelli gained access to the cottage twice. Quite suspiciously, she was the one who confided in the postal police that the burglar must be a stupid burglar. Why was Ms. Romanelli so intent on calling attention to her room? Could she be trying to control our interpretation of how the room got to be the way it did?

Further, Ms. Romanelli is a front-door key holder. So is the other flatmate, Ms. Knox, but Ms. Knox has a solid alibi - she was with her boyfriend all night, Mr Sollecito. Sollecito, rather than acting suspicious, was actually quite helpful in pointing out the pooh in the toilet to us. We have not, as yet, matched the pooh to anyone with DNA.

But Ms. Romanelli continued to display suspicious behaviour. First, she retained the services of a lawyer. When asked, she said she did that because she was concerned that she'd be on the hook for the damage to her room, as well as rent at the cottage while it was behind a police line.

Is this the act of a sympathetic roommate, or the cold calculation of a killer? Where's her sympathy to the victim? She also quickly returned to work. Why was she not home in bed crying?

Add to this two more things. One is that she actually did return to the cottage after the police tape was up. She retrieved her laptop, which we believe she thought would be damaging to her. Unfortunately our technician damaged part of her computer in trying to find information linking her to the crime.

Second - she did not go to the memorial for Meredith. True, Ms. Knox also did not go, but at least she was eating a pizza at the time so we can fully appreciate how these basic needs, plus the stresses of the week, might cause someone like Ms. Knox who is also so young to want to avoid the questions that others might have had if she'd attended.

Ms. Romanelli is older so should have been able to handle herself at such affairs, which makes it all the more suspicious that she did not attend. She very well could have appealed to her employer that she needed to attend after such a horrible event in her life, but our information is that she didn't even ask. That's a further clue to her unsympathetic attitude towards the murder.

I am recommending that we call in her boyfriend for questioning on the assumption that she will not want to be alone and she has nowhere else to go, really. If we can get Filomena's boyfriend to withdraw his alibi, maybe with a bit of pressure, we can get Ms. Romanelli to tell us what she is withholding about what she knows about Ms. Kercher's murder.

Sincerely,
Monica
 
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