Native American myths/traditions support Bigfoot? A critical look.

[EHocking]

You seem to be overlooking the fact that more than a few tribes had hang ups about even hunting bear

Which ones?

because they were too close to human in their belief system,

Do these tribes have bear legends and myths?
Do these tribes have totems or other drawn or carved representations of bears?
Did these tribes ever collect bear skulls or other parts from found carcasses?

squatchy seems to often fall into a similar context.

Which tribe has ever stated that it had "hang ups" about hunting BF?

Your suggestions above are a wee bit of an oversimplication.

Yes...

 

[DennyT]

Bigclaws

 

[Drewbot]

If a young Indian found a huge Bigfoot skull and brought it into the village would the elders just get rid of it? Does that explain the lack of such found objects?

Its family comes to the tribe kills them stealing the skull back.

 

[William Parcher]

There are Bigfoot believers who say that many or most tribes had names for and described Bigfoot... because they directly encountered Bigfoot in their local environment. Think about the potential opportunities packaged in many thousands of years and hundreds of thousands (millions?) of young Indians who could have found that huge Bigfoot skull and brought it into the village. By golly, there could have been thousands of such skulls dragged into encampments. They discarded all of them? Not a single one accounted for as an artifact now. We have even excavated Indian trash and junk piles where they discarded stuff. Nothing related to Bigfoot has been found.

 

[Drewbot]

footer would say, they were taught from a young age not to mess with BF parts. It would bestow a curse of vengeful BF on their tribe.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I recall a JREF member (I forget the name) posting in the affirmative, agreeing that the name "hairy people" can be, and historically has been, used by several human populations to describe a species of ape with whom they share territory. "Orangutan" is Indonesian and Malay for "person of the forest", to name one example.

What does allowing this fact, even or especially with regard to the Cross River gorilla, have to do with bigfoot?

That's one of the ways Cross River Gorillas and Bigfoot are alike. Locals considered them both "hairy people". Thanks Vort.

 

[STRONG LIKE BEAR]

"considered" as in past-tense? as in.. Native Americans?

No, Chris, see the thread EHocking linked on the previous page. There is absolutely no credible connection with native legends and modern Bigfoot. I'm sure you've read that thread too, though.

Besides, locals where I live consider bigfoot a "joke" not, "hairy people" .. so ..

 

[STRONG LIKE BEAR]

Is that why they haven't been killed Chris? Because they are protected by the locals such as yourself in the past who understood that they are more akin to "hairy people" ?

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

"considered" as in past-tense? as in.. Native Americans?

No, Chris, see the thread EHocking linked on the previous page. There is absolutely no credible connection with native legends and modern Bigfoot. I'm sure you've read that thread too, though.

Besides, locals where I live consider bigfoot a "joke" not, "hairy people" .. so ..

Actually, I did read the first page of 40 posts. If Kitakaze's presentation convinced you there is no credible connection with native legends and Bigfoot, that's good for you.

IMO, I think suggesting that no culture or group of people, Native American or others elsewhere in the World have ever recorded a belief of a half man half animal being is quite possibly the best example of skeptical critical thinking I have witnessed here to date.

My goodness, the logic is flawless.

Are you serious? Please say you're joking

 

[William Parcher]

Were there any Bigfoot denialists among the Native Americans. Did the knowers present bodies to show the doubters that they were wrong?

Did they have any mythical animals at all - and for those did they have believers/knowers vs skeptic/denialists? How did those Indians settle demands for proof amongst themselves and how does it relate to the present day situation with Bigfootery?

 

[STRONG LIKE BEAR]

Actually, I did read the first page of 40 posts. If Kitakaze's presentation convinced you there is no credible connection with native legends and Bigfoot, that's good for you.

IMO, I think suggesting that no culture or group of people, Native American or others elsewhere in the World have ever recorded a belief of a half man half animal being is quite possibly the best example of skeptical critical thinking I have witnessed here to date.

Give me an example of a Native American legend that is describing Bigfoot.

 

[STRONG LIKE BEAR]

On second thought, don't. Bring it up in that thread if you'd like to discuss it, I believe that would be off-topic for this thread.

 

[Vortigern99]

That's one of the ways Cross River Gorillas and Bigfoot are alike. Locals considered them both "hairy people". Thanks Vort.

Here's why that's circular reasoning. Let's allow for the sake of discussion that some American tribe has legends of hairy people. (That's not currently evidence, but it seems plausible. No extraordinary evidence required.)

But here's the snag: You don't know that the animals this unnamed tribe identify as "hairy people" are bigfoots.


These "hairy people" might be bears, wolverines, raccoons, or another tribe of human beings. Or they might be folkloric animals such as the Thunderbird or the River Panther, both Native American legendary (and non-existent) animals.

Do you see where we're going with this, Chris?

 

[EHocking]

Actually, I did read the first page of 40 posts. If Kitakaze's presentation convinced you there is no credible connection with native legends and Bigfoot, that's good for you.

IMO, I think suggesting that no culture or group of people, Native American or others elsewhere in the World have ever recorded a belief of a half man half animal being is quite possibly the best example of skeptical critical thinking I have witnessed here to date.

This is a strawman, since that was NOT the what that thread discussed.

The thread was discussing if there were any myths or legends that described bigfoot. Quite a number that were discussed were man/animal myths.

My goodness, the logic is flawless.

Are you serious? Please say you're joking

Your logic is the indefensible one.

No one on the thread suggested that "no culture or group of people, Native American or others elsewhere in the World have ever recorded a belief of a half man half animal".

Whereas the posts in that thread read and analysed historical and contemporary records of native American myths and legends, your post is merely unsupported opinion, as underlined by this (partial) statement;

"IMO, I think suggesting that..."
​

Please resurrect the thread and tear the logic in it to pieces if you can, but you will have to do better than just dismissing the arguments because they disagree with your belief system.

 

[xtifr]

IMO, I think suggesting that no culture or group of people, Native American or others elsewhere in the World have ever recorded a belief of a half man half animal being is quite possibly the best example of skeptical critical thinking I have witnessed here to date.

Wow, someone in another thread was complaining that people misuse/overuse the term "strawman" around here. Well, if any of you are confused by the term, what we have here is a textbook example of a strawman. Somehow "there are no native legends about bigfoot" gets transformed into "there are no legends about hybrid creatures" purely for the sake of shooting the latter argument down.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

This is a strawman, since that was NOT the what that thread discussed.

The thread was discussing if there were any myths or legends that described bigfoot. Quite a number that were discussed were man/animal myths.Your logic is the indefensible one.

No one on the thread suggested that "no culture or group of people, Native American or others elsewhere in the World have ever recorded a belief of a half man half animal".

Whereas the posts in that thread read and analysed historical and contemporary records of native American myths and legends, your post is merely unsupported opinion, as underlined by this (partial) statement;

"IMO, I think suggesting that..."
​

Please resurrect the thread and tear the logic in it to pieces if you can, but you will have to do better than just dismissing the arguments because they disagree with your belief system.

Guys, to argue that all Native peoples could not have any reference to hairy "men" or "people" is unwinnable for either side. Since I have no first hand study of all Native languages, I'm not qualified to know all details of every culture and belief structure on the planet and I don't think anyone else is either.

It is a common theme though for most native cultures to have some sort of man beast type thingy ingrained in their belief structure. That's Worldwide. (check it out for yourself) One would have to dismiss all to sink the putt. That's not likely to happen.

One could also argue that these beliefs could be remnant memories passed down from cultural clashes of two differing species. I'm not interested in opening it up, the only path is opinion swapping.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Wow, someone in another thread was complaining that people misuse/overuse the term "strawman" around here. Well, if any of you are confused by the term, what we have here is a textbook example of a strawman. Somehow "there are no native legends about bigfoot" gets transformed into "there are no legends about hybrid creatures" purely for the sake of shooting the latter argument down.

Well ok then. Please share with us some examples of your expertise in Native language and culture. Pick a tribe any tribe.

 

[xtifr]

Well ok then. Please share with us some examples of your expertise in Native language and culture. Pick a tribe any tribe.

Where did I say anything about Native language or culture (outside of quotation marks)? You're the one that switched from talking about legends of bigfoot to general legends of animal/human hybrids. If you want to know more about legends, go back to the thread where such claims were discussed. I'm not not making any claims about the legends--merely pointing out a gigantic hole in your argument. A hole that has nothing to do with its premise.

If you can't construct a sound argument (no matter how shaky its premises might be), you're never going to get anywhere around here.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Where did I say anything about Native language or culture (outside of quotation marks)? You're the one that switched from talking about legends of bigfoot to general legends of animal/human hybrids. If you want to know more about legends, go back to the thread where such claims were discussed. I'm not not making any claims about the legends--merely pointing out a gigantic hole in your argument. A hole that has nothing to do with its premise.

If you can't construct a sound argument (no matter how shaky its premises might be), you're never going to get anywhere around here.

That's my point. There can be no sound argument about Native legends/beliefs, as I pointed out above:

"It is a common theme though for most native cultures to have some sort of man beast type thingy ingrained in their belief structure. That's Worldwide. (check it out for yourself) One would have to dismiss all to sink the putt. That's not likely to happen."

 

[LTC8K6]

That's my point. There can be no sound argument about Native legends/beliefs, as I pointed out above:

"It is a common theme though for most native cultures to have some sort of man beast type thingy ingrained in their belief structure. That's Worldwide. (check it out for yourself) One would have to dismiss all to sink the putt. That's not likely to happen."

I always knew dragons were real.