The dreaded "A" word

[Correa Neto]

On Planet X, those evil New atheists would ask "What would Jesus do?"

Because arguing against religion, especially Christianity, is such an evil thing to do! They must dedicate a large chunk of their time to this. Since they are atheists, they should stop discussing god and religion! Even if its an important aspect of the culture surrounding them and affects them in many ways. And, oh, the tragedy, the humanity! Some even dare to sell books exposing religion! And without fully understanding high level theology!

 

[RSLancastr]

This past Wednesday, Susan and I were volunteering at our church.

As we left one building, an Associate Pastor was on his way in.

Susan was wearing her Stop Sylvia Browne t-shirt, and the pastor (who knows that I am Agnostic) laughed and read aloud from Susan's shirt, "WHAT WOULD ROBERT DO?"

Later, I sent him an email explaining it.

 

[epix]

Or more simply it is a kitchen-latin bastardisation of my favorite bird , and symbol I used in my youth : l'épervier : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Épervier which I used initially, then changed in aepervius.

But hey, what beats your drum .

So I was right after all in looking into the list of Roman generals, but I couldn't find that one who commanded the air force and later became a chef.

How do you make bastardized falcon? Is it similar to making mushroom-stuffed pheasant?

 

[epix]

Did you miss the forum title? You know, at the top of the page? Where it says Religion and Philosophy? Do you expect people to talk here about fishing?

I never indicated that people should abide by the name of the thread and start discussing fishing or other hobbies, so stop fantasizing. You don't seem to comprehend that the subjects encompassing religion and philosophy can be and and are independent of atheism. It's like the 2nd Commandment all over again.

 

[epix]

I can always count on an insulting response from epix.

And mankind can always count on being "insulted" by you. It's a reliable world, ain't it?

 

[mijopaalmc]

On Planet X, those evil New atheists would ask "What would Jesus do?"

Because arguing against religion, especially Christianity, is such an evil thing to do! They must dedicate a large chunk of their time to this. Since they are atheists, they should stop discussing god and religion! Even if its an important aspect of the culture surrounding them and affects them in many ways. And, oh, the tragedy, the humanity! Some even dare to sell books exposing religion! And without fully understanding high level theology!

Cool straw man, brah.

 

[epix]

The subject of this thread is what experiences atheists have had regarding their own acknowledgment that they no longer believed in God and what reactions their friends and family have had or still have to their atheism. We talk about religion and God on this forum a lot, because that's what this forum is about. We are not necessarily obsessed with those subjects beyond that.

It's nice to hear that the obsession with atheism has its own limit and doesn't reach beyond that. But I'm way too skeptical to believe it.

What does the Roman Empire or any other empire in history have to do with the subject of this thread?

It got something to do with a part of this thread. Everyone has figured that out except you.

I understand the reason behind your question in the OP, because the answer is supposedly hard to come by casually, as I learned in this thread. When not trashing religion, the atheists engage in a conversation that includes variety of topics including interior decorating, I guess. There is also a chance that some of them would be annoyed by your question during the time when they take a break from seeing through the devilish conspiracies designed by the theists in order to take over the world.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Based on my own experience the US is not substantially different than Canada or the UK in this. Religion is not a topic of conversation in normal society. Of the dozen or so people I work with I am aware of the religion of only one, and that did not come up in a religious discussion, but rather with reference to her wedding plans. She mentioned getting a Lutheran minister to perform the ceremony, partly in Danish, as her grandparents were Danish immigrants.
The high level of attention that religion seems to receive in the US is, I believe, an artifact of the political process and news coverage. To most people it is not an issue.

Oregon is one of the least-religious states, but my state is at the other extreme. 'What church do you go to?' is frequently one of the first questions you get asked when you meet someone around here. I've literally had this conversation:

'What church do you go to?'

I don't go to one.

'Why not?'

I'm not very religious.

'But you believe in God, don't you?'

No. I'm pretty much an atheist.

Beat

'You mean you worship the devil!?'

And that is how I became an out atheist at work.

 

[MikeG]

....It's like the 2nd Commandment all over again.

Sorry, you'll have to remind me. Is this the one about the donkey?

 

[epix]

My co-worker in next cubicle is an atheist. Mostly we talk about work, sometimes about cars or children or lunch. Never about religion.

My girlfriend is an atheist. We talk about many things -- travel, books, food, work, children, children's colleges. Rarely about interior decoration. Never about religion.

My parents are atheists. They talk about politics, architecture, parties, travel. Almost never about religion.

I almost never talk about religion outside this subforum. Just like I rarely talk about astronomy outside astronomy forums.

Really? Thanks. Your experience is a major contribution to my theory that equates atheism with religion on practical terms, because the priests also talk about other things apart from God and Jesus when not standing in the pulpit.

 

[Snarf]

Tim
I used to ask questions in Sunday School that made the Teacher uncomfortable, like, "why can't I see Heaven in my telescope?", and "if God is up there and can see us all, how can he see the people on the other side of the Earth?". The answers I usually got involved me trusting rather that proving that God existed, asking me to simply accept things that I could not see for myself. Very unsatisfactory for a pre-teen with a million questions.

I know the feeling quite well, and it doesn't get any easier with age. Whenever I have any kind of back-and-forth with a believer, eventually, if I probe deep enough and hard enough, the final answer is always the same: "Well, you just gotta believe".
Which is about the most depressingly unsatisfying answer I can think of that you could give to a non-believer.

 

[smartcooky]

Th fact that A-Philatelists are not as outspoken nor as organized as some Atheists are might be linked to facts such as:

1. philatelists rarely ever tell A-philatelists that they (and their children) will burn in Hell for all eternity if they don't start collecting stamps before they die.
2. There is no day of the week generally accepted in our society as a day when people gather to read and sing about stamps.
3. There are so few Country & Western songs about stamps, nor is there an effusion of FM "Stamp Rock" radio stations.
4. Mentioning at your workplace that you do not collect stamps hardly ever elicits gasps and tsk-tsks from co-workers, nor are you likely to then start finding flyers regarding the Wonders of a Stamp-Collecting Life on your desk.
5. The paucity of Chick Tracts on the subject.

One of the most outstanding "burn the strawman argument" posts I have seen in recent times.

Add....

6. Philatelists are not known for knocking on your door on a Saturday morning then when you answer, trying to engage you in a conversation about stamp collecting.

 

[MikeG]

Really? Thanks. Your experience is a major contribution to my theory that equates atheism with religion on practical terms, because the priests also talk about other things apart from God and Jesus when not standing in the pulpit.

Yes, but so do cheese-makers. So cheese-makers must also be equated with atheism and religion! Ah, at last........the penny drops!! Blessed are the cheese-makers.

 

[epix]

Sorry, you'll have to remind me. Is this the one about the donkey?

Yes, this thread is about some dreaded "A" word.

The donkey or ass, Equus africanus asinus, is a domesticated member of the Equidae or horse family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey

(Listen, don't mention this to TimCallahan. He would feel once again insulted with no chance of recovery in sight.)

 

[MikeG]

Yes, this thread is about some dreaded "A" word........

Nah, I looked it up. Not coveting your neighbours ox or ass is the 10th commandment. I'm pretty safe with that one.

 

[epix]

6. Philatelists are not known for knocking on your door on a Saturday morning then when you answer, trying to engage you in a conversation about stamp collecting.

I like that one - it's called "false dichotomy." Since the Roman Catholics or Protestants never knock on your door to peddle their faith, they do not belong to the population of theists/philatelists. But that's a contradiction.

Look, I'm not saying that this
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/t...gious-people-that-doesnt-mean-you-are-though/
was based on a biased sample. I just . . . Hold on. Someone's knocking on the door.

 

[mijopaalmc]

[qimg]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/Smilies/clap.gif[/qimg] [qimg]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/Smilies/clap.gif[/qimg] [qimg]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/98915197/Smilies/clap.gif[/qimg]

One of the most outstanding "burn the strawman" posts I have seen in recent times.

Add....

6.* Philatelists are not known for knocking on your door on a Saturday morning then when you answer, trying to engage you in a conversation about stamp collecting.

It's interesting that you think that presenting further examples of non-correspondence between "a-philately" and "atheism" supports efforts to "burn the straw man". The entire objection to the "a-philately" is not at all like "atheism" either in an abstract, conceptual sense or in a concrete, practical sense. Presenting reasons why atheists have started to form an atheist identity only re-inforces the difference between "a-philately" and "atheism" and doesn't answer the primary issue that atheists who most strongly self-identify as atheist tend to couch their atheism in terms of overt and ostentatious opposition to religion and belief in the supernatural, while simultaneously asserting the atheism as "only" the lack of belief in the supernatural. Moreover they further problematize their approach by likening other atheists who disagree with them to as "Neville Chamberlain" and devising label that clearly stigmatize their opponents in their eyes.

In other words, the behavior of strongly self-identified "atheist" contradicts their assertions that "atheism" is "only" about the the lack of belief in the supernatural, because they have drawn vivid distinctions between others who share their same lack of belief, distinctions that should not exist simply due to the fact they also define atheism as lack of the belief in the supernatural. Such a concept of atheism cannot therefore be reasonably analogous to "a-philately", if a-philately is "only" not collecting stamps, because:

1. philately is an action, not belief
   • no-one denies the existence of:
     • stamps
     • postal services that used stamps
   • stamps are the central concern of philately, just as the supernatural is the central concern of religion
   • an "a-philatelist", per the usual presentation of the analogy simply does not collect stamps, whereas an atheist lacks a belief in the supernatural and consequently does not practice a religion that requires a belief in the supernatural
2. the existence of philately is not disputed
   • the central issues of any discussion of atheism are:
     • the logical possibility of an entity that possesses the properties of the supernatural
     • the physical possibility of such an entity given current scientific knowledge
   • Neither (2a) nor (2b) pertain to stamps
3. "a-philatelists" are an artificial category of "non-hobbyists" because:
   • being an "a-philatelist" doesn't preclude one from having other hobbies
   • having other hobbies doen't preclude one for being an "a-philatelist"
4. Being an "a-philatelist" is therefore neither necessary nor sufficient for being a "non-hobbyist", whereas, by commonly definition of atheist being an atheist is sufficient for not practicing a religion
5. "a-philately" does not serve as a basis for a common identity in the same way that many "atheists" claim their "atheism" does because
   • "a-philately" is a socially stigmatized activity
   • "a- philatelists" do not oppose philately
   • "a-philatelists" don't tend to stigmatize one another by virtue of the way each "a-philatelist" refrains from collecting stamps.

 

[Correa Neto]

Cool straw man, brah.

I don't think so. There are religious people wich are very vocal and rabid against atheists or anything they perceive as an attack against their faith. Their faiths are considered as being above everything else. They see as their divine rights, however, to attack all other beliefs (or lack of beliefs) and to impose to anyone else their ways.

If you are not one of them, then there's something wrong with you.

 

[mijopaalmc]

I don't think so. There are religious people wich are very vocal and rabid against atheists or anything they perceive as an attack against their faith. Their faiths are considered as being above everything else. They see as their divine rights, however, to attack all other beliefs (or lack of beliefs) and to impose to anyone else their ways.

If you are not one of them, then there's something wrong with you.

Haven't I seen you defending the assertion that religious belief, is by definition, delusional?

This seems to be one of the pot-kettle/mote-beam moments on your part.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Haven't I seen you defending the assertion that religious belief, is by definition, delusional?

This seems to be one of the pot-kettle/mote-beam moments on your part.

I could be wrong, but I believe Corea Neto's statement is to be read in the voice of one of the rabid religious, not as a personal statement of opinion...