Why don't you do the calculations and publish it in Geology? Obviously you know so much more than all the geologists in the world--I'm sure your publication would easily rank up there with Watson and Crick's, or the Alvarez Hypothesis.
Why don't you do the calculations and publish it in Geology? Obviously you know so much more than all the geologists in the world--I'm sure your publication would easily rank up there with Watson and Crick's, or the Alvarez Hypothesis.
DeathDart
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Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency
Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency
At low (<20 kms) velocities an asteroid can be modeled as a discreet solid with shockwaves propagating the kinetic energy. At higher velocities (>100? kms) the asteroid is better described as a dense plasma, every molecule tearing through the target for itself. Shortly after impact the energy that binds the Asteroid into a single solid object is exceeded. Describing it as a solid becomes irrelevant, it becomes more of a soliton wave with the asteroids atoms diffusing through Mars' atoms.The kinetic energy of the individual atoms is maintained even without a structure. A crude analogy would be cutting steel with a water jet.
At a high enough velocity the kinetic energy of matter does not need a structure to sustain it through a material.
At the chemical level, many of the chemical bonds of the asteroid minerals are broken and the individual atoms move independently. Chemical recombination occurs when the shear at the level of atoms is low enough that a chemical bond can form and be maintained. There is a great deal of clumping so that these chemical effects are not homogenous.
As the asteroid goes deeper, the molecular overlap between the asteroid and the target increases. As more of the target mass is incorporated into the kinetic soliton, the soliton slows. Until the solitons kinetic energy is reflected by 180 degrees, it really cannot be considered thermal energy (which is by definition random kinetic energy without any preferred direction).
Shock waves are insignificant at first, since they represent only a small part of the hyper-velocity asteroids total energy. Though the shockwave model becomes more relevant as the asteroid soliton slows down. So two (or more) impact mathematical models will run simultaneously. As the kinetic soliton velocity decreases, more of the simulation shifts from the kinetic view of the micro-scale soliton model to the view of the larger scale shockwave model.
Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency
At low (<20 kms) velocities an asteroid can be modeled as a discreet solid with shockwaves propagating the kinetic energy. At higher velocities (>100? kms) the asteroid is better described as a dense plasma, every molecule tearing through the target for itself. Shortly after impact the energy that binds the Asteroid into a single solid object is exceeded. Describing it as a solid becomes irrelevant, it becomes more of a soliton wave with the asteroids atoms diffusing through Mars' atoms.The kinetic energy of the individual atoms is maintained even without a structure. A crude analogy would be cutting steel with a water jet.
At a high enough velocity the kinetic energy of matter does not need a structure to sustain it through a material.
At the chemical level, many of the chemical bonds of the asteroid minerals are broken and the individual atoms move independently. Chemical recombination occurs when the shear at the level of atoms is low enough that a chemical bond can form and be maintained. There is a great deal of clumping so that these chemical effects are not homogenous.
As the asteroid goes deeper, the molecular overlap between the asteroid and the target increases. As more of the target mass is incorporated into the kinetic soliton, the soliton slows. Until the solitons kinetic energy is reflected by 180 degrees, it really cannot be considered thermal energy (which is by definition random kinetic energy without any preferred direction).
Shock waves are insignificant at first, since they represent only a small part of the hyper-velocity asteroids total energy. Though the shockwave model becomes more relevant as the asteroid soliton slows down. So two (or more) impact mathematical models will run simultaneously. As the kinetic soliton velocity decreases, more of the simulation shifts from the kinetic view of the micro-scale soliton model to the view of the larger scale shockwave model.
DeathDart
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You provide some useful comments and opportunities to fill the theory out or drive a stake through its heart.
So far it seems to be getting stronger.
DeathDart
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The force field is a rhetorical joke. Humans have assumed for too long that all asteroids originate in this Solar System.
"100 kms = 0.0003 C" This is an indication of how much energy even a tiny extrasolar asteroid can have. So assuming that extrasolar asteroids don't exist could be a fatal mistake.
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
You are ignoring the obvious, DeathDart.
Not only does the object not survive, it is destroyed on the surface. It does not tunnel into the crust as you think.
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
Sorry DeathDart, but that is a lie.
The Hawaiian Islands are thought to be the result of a mantle plume.
The Iceland plume is thought to be responsible for Iceland's volcanic activity.
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Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
Irrelevant Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency
No mention of mantle plumes
.
And the missing citation to the "Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency" source makes the post more ridiculous.
You really know how to waste your time, DeathDart, by posting irrelevant stuff!
No mention of mantle plumes
.And the missing citation to the "Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency" source makes the post more ridiculous.
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DeathDart
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You really know how to waste your time, DeathDart, by posting irrelevant stuff!
No mention of mantle plumes
And the missing citation to the "Models of Asteroid Impact Showing Velocity Dependency" source makes the post more ridiculous.
Oh, the King Maker denies me the crown.
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
Asteroid impact causing mantle plumes gives us 17 Moons
And I will also point out your lack of Google ability, DeathDart: Start with Impact depth
Note that the Chicxulub crater that could have killed off the dinosaurs was at least 10 kilometers in diameter.
!
And I will also point out your lack of Google ability, DeathDart: Start with Impact depth
So a rocky body impacting a rocky body (same densities) will penetrate roughly its length. Mantle plumes are about 2,900 km deep. Your fantasy that they are caused by asteroid impacts gives a diameter of ~ 2,900 km. This is not an asteroid - this is a moon!
Note that the Chicxulub crater that could have killed off the dinosaurs was at least 10 kilometers in diameter.
You are suggesting 17 impacts (the proposed number of mantle plumes) of bolides that are at least 100 times bigger and about a million times heavier. There are impacts of the order of the impact that could have created the Moon
!Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
Actually I do give you a crown - that of a jester
!Seriously though it is actually the "unable to do basic research leading to unsupported assertions from a stance of ignorance" crown.
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
Assuming that astronomers think extra solar asteroids do not exist is definitely a fatal mistake, DeathDart.
They have evidence that extra solar asteroids do actually exist in other stellar systems (Rocky Finding -- Evidence of Extrasolar Asteroid Belt - 2007).
There is no evidence for extra solar asteroids in the Solar System.
The idea that these imaginary extra solar asteroids in the Solar System cause mantle plumes is ridiculous: Asteroid impact causing mantle plumes gives us 17 Moons!
It hasn't bloody started yet. Do you seriously think science is done via internet forum?!
SHOW. YOUR. MATH. Also, since I'm a geologist, show me the rocks. Until you do those two things, you've got nothing but speculation. Until you publish those things, you can't say the idea is "getting stronger". The stillborn does not strengthen.
Mitchell314
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Your use of physics is way off. When a small, concentrated bit of material passes through a medium faster than the speed of sound in the medium, you start seeing resemblances to fluid mechanics. The kinetic energy lost by the traveling object is roughly proportional to the product of the square of the velocity and a function of the surface area. And when that energy release is high enough (and at 100 mps, it is), the object breaks up, and as a result surface area increases exponentially. This rapid release of energy is in the form of shock waves, sound waves (medium impulse), thermal energy released due to friction, and thermal energy released due to compression.
Which means you have an extreme case of diminishing returns of impact depth with respect to initial impact velocity. The original matter from the colliding body doesn't go very deep at all, even around the velocities we're talking about. This is related to the reason why a even a centimeter of pooled up water can greatly reduce the effectiveness of a good pressure washer.
wollery
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Umm, no.
You're affirming the consequent, or to put it in layman's terms, putting the cart before the horse.
Your theory is that hyper-velocity asteroids cause mantle plumes, and you then state that the presence of mantle plumes proves that hyper-velocity asteroids have impacted the Earth. But that doesn't follow, because there are other perfectly valid theories about how mantle plumes form. That means that the only conclusion you could draw would be if there were no mantle plumes we could state that according to your theory there have been no hyper-velocity asteroid impact events.
However, what you have isn't a theory, it's barely even a hypothesis, it's what some scientists would call a noddy sketch. As far as I can tell what you have is a rough picture of what happens and some ballpark numbers based on other people's theories. You are long way from a fully formed theory, and there's still a fair bit of maths to do before you could reasonably call it a working hypothesis.
What you need to do to have anyone even start to entertain the notion that your idea has any merit whatsoever is to show a full mathematical treatment of such an impact, based on current impact theory and understanding, and also show a full mathematical treatment of the probability that such asteroids exist, how frequently they pass through the Solar system and what the probability is that the Earth would be hit by such an asteroid if it did pass through.
So far you have none of that.
So, to return to my original point, you aren't really putting the cart before the horse, because you don't have a cart, or a horse. What you're actually doing is trying to coax a mangy dog to catch up with you in the vague hope that it won't be too ill to push your wheelbarrow.
DeathDart
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Instability of Kinetic Boundary
Solid matter is not solid. A material which is solid is Neutronium, a mass of pure neutrons. Ordinary matter consists of atoms. Atoms are a Nucleus and some electrons, all the rest is space. The appearance of solid matter is created by linking the electron shells of atoms. By increasing the amount of pressure upon a volume of normal matter its volume can be decreased. In atomic weapons the volume of the critical mass (HEU) is squeezed down (with explosives) to about 40% of normal. So ignoring reality, I could create a path through Mars that could contain both the compressed asteroid and the compressed mass of Mars without either touching along the asteroids path. In a more complicated process that is what partially happens.
There is a picture of C4 (the plastic explosive) being detonated, surrounded by glass beads. You would think that the explosion would produce a spherical boundary, but it does not. It produces a giant symmetric pin cushion. The explosion produced a boundary which maximized the velocity of the glass beads. Minor instabilities at the beginning of the explosion are amplified as more and more glass beads running into open air resistance are deflected into neighboring glass paths. Following in the wake of another particle the air resistance is less.
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/425794/the-puzzle-of-particle-jets-and-blast-waves/
The boundary instability is driven by the difference in directional/kinetic velocity of the glass beads across the boundary. The glass beads do not move in an exact line leading from the center of the blast, they encounter air resistance and drift toward one side or the other. Eventually they may encounter the path of a previous bead and follow the lowered air resistance in its wake.
A slow velocity asteroid impact produces molecules which have kinetic energy that is only slightly greater than the shocked molecules of the target in that it strikes. The forces/energies are nearly balanced producing much less boundary instability. Slow impacts tend to push matter ahead of it while a hyper-velocity impact produces a complex boundary which channels the asteroid material past the compressed target material.
Only partial and localized compression of the target is achieved as the leading edge of high velocity asteroid molecules are channeled along a pathproducing right angle compresseion of both asteroid and target material. This is not a homogenous process. There are channels where the asteroid molecules are freely moving past islands of target material. These isolated islands will be swept up into the kinetic soliton which is a catch all phrase for all the matter possessing kinetic energy or storing energy by compression.
With the impact of a high velocity asteroid a boundary consisting of two radically different structures interspersing into each other. One structure is a channel of high velocity asteroid molecules. The other structure (separating the channeled asteroid material) are fingers of compressed Martian rock. Once the process instability begins, it feeds back on itself and increases. This process is self optimizing. The size of channels and the fingers of target material are dependent on the area of the boundary, the density of the target material and asteroid, and the velocity of the asteroid. The high amount of kinetic energy compresses both the asteroid and Martian material so that they can temporarily occupy the same volume.
Asteroid molecules cannot be dammed up, (or pause), until an opening forms, the asteroid molecules continue forward deflecting and pushing past target molecules. The least resistive boundary shape wins the contest between possible boundary structures. As the asteroid goes deeper it has more Martian material mixed with into a conical column of material. This column has a complex internal structure of asteroid molecular channels, accelerated and compressed islands of Martian material, and new fingers of Martian material. This conglomerate of structures can be called the asteroids kinetic soliton.
At some point the fast asteroid molecules can no longer generate new channels. At this point the energy of matter following in the soliton begin to reach the front boundary and can move it forward some more. The kinetic soliton slows down enough that it has a smooth regular boundary and it is best described by shockwave dominated forms of modeling.
(Using a heavy construction equipment analogy)
A slow asteroid acts like a bulldozer continuously compressing target mass in front of it. A fast asteroid acts more like a scraper, moving and compressing material out of its path.
Solid matter is not solid. A material which is solid is Neutronium, a mass of pure neutrons. Ordinary matter consists of atoms. Atoms are a Nucleus and some electrons, all the rest is space. The appearance of solid matter is created by linking the electron shells of atoms. By increasing the amount of pressure upon a volume of normal matter its volume can be decreased. In atomic weapons the volume of the critical mass (HEU) is squeezed down (with explosives) to about 40% of normal. So ignoring reality, I could create a path through Mars that could contain both the compressed asteroid and the compressed mass of Mars without either touching along the asteroids path. In a more complicated process that is what partially happens.
There is a picture of C4 (the plastic explosive) being detonated, surrounded by glass beads. You would think that the explosion would produce a spherical boundary, but it does not. It produces a giant symmetric pin cushion. The explosion produced a boundary which maximized the velocity of the glass beads. Minor instabilities at the beginning of the explosion are amplified as more and more glass beads running into open air resistance are deflected into neighboring glass paths. Following in the wake of another particle the air resistance is less.
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/425794/the-puzzle-of-particle-jets-and-blast-waves/
The boundary instability is driven by the difference in directional/kinetic velocity of the glass beads across the boundary. The glass beads do not move in an exact line leading from the center of the blast, they encounter air resistance and drift toward one side or the other. Eventually they may encounter the path of a previous bead and follow the lowered air resistance in its wake.
A slow velocity asteroid impact produces molecules which have kinetic energy that is only slightly greater than the shocked molecules of the target in that it strikes. The forces/energies are nearly balanced producing much less boundary instability. Slow impacts tend to push matter ahead of it while a hyper-velocity impact produces a complex boundary which channels the asteroid material past the compressed target material.
Only partial and localized compression of the target is achieved as the leading edge of high velocity asteroid molecules are channeled along a pathproducing right angle compresseion of both asteroid and target material. This is not a homogenous process. There are channels where the asteroid molecules are freely moving past islands of target material. These isolated islands will be swept up into the kinetic soliton which is a catch all phrase for all the matter possessing kinetic energy or storing energy by compression.
With the impact of a high velocity asteroid a boundary consisting of two radically different structures interspersing into each other. One structure is a channel of high velocity asteroid molecules. The other structure (separating the channeled asteroid material) are fingers of compressed Martian rock. Once the process instability begins, it feeds back on itself and increases. This process is self optimizing. The size of channels and the fingers of target material are dependent on the area of the boundary, the density of the target material and asteroid, and the velocity of the asteroid. The high amount of kinetic energy compresses both the asteroid and Martian material so that they can temporarily occupy the same volume.
Asteroid molecules cannot be dammed up, (or pause), until an opening forms, the asteroid molecules continue forward deflecting and pushing past target molecules. The least resistive boundary shape wins the contest between possible boundary structures. As the asteroid goes deeper it has more Martian material mixed with into a conical column of material. This column has a complex internal structure of asteroid molecular channels, accelerated and compressed islands of Martian material, and new fingers of Martian material. This conglomerate of structures can be called the asteroids kinetic soliton.
At some point the fast asteroid molecules can no longer generate new channels. At this point the energy of matter following in the soliton begin to reach the front boundary and can move it forward some more. The kinetic soliton slows down enough that it has a smooth regular boundary and it is best described by shockwave dominated forms of modeling.
(Using a heavy construction equipment analogy)
A slow asteroid acts like a bulldozer continuously compressing target mass in front of it. A fast asteroid acts more like a scraper, moving and compressing material out of its path.
DeathDart
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What valid theories? The earth is 4.5 billion years old, what internal process would still be producing mantle plumes? Mantle plumes represent an instability that time would have evened out. An external model explains this much better. The problem for the asteroid impact initiated plume was that all the models were for low velocity impacts. The properties of Hyper-Velocity impacts were dismissed since only asteroids (or comets) originating in the Solar System was counted. Obviously there is no force field between the Solar System and the rest of the galaxy, so extrasolar asteroids do exist.
And cross sectional area is only valid if you the asteroid rate per unit volume of space is known. If you check the oil companies databases you might find out the real rate of asteroid impaction, and it is a lot higher than what publically available data would indicate.
DeathDart
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PLease Sir, Some PetaFlops
I admit that it is beyond my present mathematical abilities to program a massively parallel computer system to run this simulation. But channeling is seen in ion beams. At this velocity >100kms the binding energy of any structure will rapidly fail. What follows, is every atom for itself.
I admit that it is beyond my present mathematical abilities to program a massively parallel computer system to run this simulation. But channeling is seen in ion beams. At this velocity >100kms the binding energy of any structure will rapidly fail. What follows, is every atom for itself.
Reality Check
Penultimate Amazing
Irrelvant "Instability of Kinetic Boundary"
Pity that you do not know what a tunnel is and that there is nowhere to scrape material to in a tunnel
!
Any asteroid impact acts as a bulldozer continuously compressing target mass in front of it. The compression stops when the kinetic energy of the asteroid is used up.
Asteroid impact causing mantle plumes gives us 17 Moons!
A nice fantasy, DeathDart.Solid matter is not solid.
...snipped meaningless wall of text...
(Using a heavy construction equipment analogy)
A slow asteroid acts like a bulldozer continuously compressing target mass in front of it. A fast asteroid acts more like a scraper, moving and compressing material out of its path.
Pity that you do not know what a tunnel is and that there is nowhere to scrape material to in a tunnel
!Any asteroid impact acts as a bulldozer continuously compressing target mass in front of it. The compression stops when the kinetic energy of the asteroid is used up.
Asteroid impact causing mantle plumes gives us 17 Moons!