Millette needn't do this test as his results unequivocally confirm the absence of thermite - kaolinite contains no elemental aluminum.
WTC Dust Study Feb 29, 2012 by Dr. James Millette
- Thread starter chrismohr
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Millette needn't do this test as his results unequivocally confirm the absence of thermite - kaolinite contains no elemental aluminum.
thedopefishlives
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To use an analogy, which is dangerous considering how our Truthers have so much trouble with figurative speech, I would liken it to cooking a steak. The simple easy approach would be to just throw it on a grill until it's done. A proper chef, on the other hand, would take his time seasoning it, maybe marinading it, searing it off, and finishing it to perfection. Both steaks are cooked completely, but one did it in a much more thorough and decisive manner with far superior results.
thedopefishlives
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Sorry, but I don't get the point?
The simple solution would be to ignite it in an inert atmosphere. Rather than doing that, Dr. Millette did very in-depth research with proper tools that was just as effective at excluding the thermite hypothesis.
Miragememories
Banned
Millette needs to do the test as proof that his findings are based on chips with the same chemistry as those highlighted in the 2009 Bentham paper.
He does not have to perform this test if he can prove that the chips he tested, if heated to ~430C would ignite and produce iron-rich micro-spheroids in the resulting residue.
MM
DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
This is where you miss the boat.
He doesn't have to do anything because no one gives any notice to the "truther" study.
The Harrit study is self debunking to anyone that reads it. I bet you wonder why no one has noticed this study since it came out. I don't.
Here's a challange. Find a reference to their work outside of an internet blog. (there's one I know of but, it concerns lack of credibility in "open journals")
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Redwood
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No, Jones & Co. need to do a DSC under an inert atmosphere if they wish to be taken seriously. Thermite, nano or otherwise, will show a large exotherm under an inert atmosphere. An inert atmosphere test is the first test that a forensic lab would do on a suspected sample of thermite*, akin to using litmus paper to find if a substance is acid.
Jones & Co. have had four years to do a simple test and yet they have not.
The inescapable conclusion is that they haven't done it because they know damn well that their mysterious, sinister substance is paint chips which won't react under an inert atmosphere. They are charlatans. You Truthers got punked by your own team. Let that be a life-lesson for you.
*unless the sample is so small as to preclude destructive testing methods like a DSC.
If he did and got different results you'd just claim he had "the wrong kind of red". You're doing post hoc reasoning, yet again.
eta: What Redwood said. So simple, so definitive, so avoided. I wonder why?
Do you have any idea why they all avoided this test, MM ?
(cue MM saying "You'll have to ask them")
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Just as a remainder, Ivan has warned that epoxy can degrade exothermically even under an inert atmosphere.
To rule out thermite, the thing to do is look for both metallic iron and aluminium oxide in the residue. If there's none of one of them, as in the Bentham paper case, then it's not thermite, as in the Bentham paper case.
ETA: And I'm aware that thermite can be made with metals other than aluminium, but the Bentham paper claims they found elemental aluminium as fuel.
To rule out thermite, the thing to do is look for both metallic iron and aluminium oxide in the residue. If there's none of one of them, as in the Bentham paper case, then it's not thermite, as in the Bentham paper case.
ETA: And I'm aware that thermite can be made with metals other than aluminium, but the Bentham paper claims they found elemental aluminium as fuel.
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Redwood
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Any numbers on that? I'd be astonished if it were even close to the relatively puny output of thermite, much less the output of combustion of epoxy resin. (Yes, thermite is puny - you'll get more energy from simply burning aluminum in air.)
Bingo. Thermite produces approximately twice as much aluminum oxide (alumina), by volume as it produces iron. Where is the alumina?
Magnesium has more Moxie (to use an old term) as a reducing agent than does aluminum, but it's inferior in actual use because its boiling point is less than aluminum, so some will be lost.
Harrit and Jones got aluminum and silicon in their EDX, looked at the SEMs which showed platelets characteristic of aluminum silicate, and concluded that it was nano-platelets of elemental aluminum with silicon or a silicone or some form of silica fitting in somehow, some way. I daresay that any of my old chemistry professors, upon seeing this from a student, would have suggested a change of major to something like English Lit.
Basket Weaving, not English Lit. An English Lit major would comprehend the written word, and be smarter than anyone in 911 truth, who can't read to see fraud, lies and fantasy. Second nature to English Lit....
Harrit and Jones got aluminum and silicon in their EDX, looked at the SEMs which showed platelets characteristic of aluminum silicate, and concluded that it was nano-platelets of elemental aluminum with silicon or a silicone or some form of silica fitting in somehow, some way. I daresay that any of my old chemistry professors, upon seeing this from a student, would have suggested a change of major to something like English Lit.
The true believers of the church of thermite never question the energy difference, with no samples matching thermite in Jones study. Then they blast Millette who found no thermite for not heating the no thermite dust; has to be the dumbest logical mistake 911 truth makes, not reading the paper to understand the meaning of "no thermite". The true believers in thermite are always looking for iron spheres, but fail to realize the are products of fire. Failure to think inside and outside the box, stuck with repeating lies of 911 truth, they need iron spheres, too lazy to find them from other sources. Then they get desperate and make up studies to push the insanity of thermite; missing the terrorists brought planes as KE weapons, not sparklers to a terror attack. Poor 911 truth, 12 years late to reality, and dedicated to complete failure.
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chrismohr
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Thanks Beachnut for defending English majors like me!
I don't remember, and I feel lazy to search right now
If Ivan doesn't post shortly, I'll look for his former post on the subject.
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
"they blast Millette who found no thermite for not heating the no thermite dust" is a perfect description of the issue.
Here's the post. I haven't read the linked paper (book?). ETA: Also, I can't see the images now, don't know why.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9094789#post9094789
I'll repeat the most important part of his post again:
(Edited to add emphasis)
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Miragememories
Banned
It is the aftermath of combustion which is attention grabbing.
WTC paint is not going to produce iron-rich microspheroids.
MM
WTC paint is not going to produce iron-rich microspheroids.
MM
NoahFence
Banned
And thermite is the only source of iron-rich stuffoids?
Somehow I doubt that very much.
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
How many layers were on those chips? I seem to remember a grey layer...
Sunstealer
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But "WTC paint" adhered to oxidised steel will. The evidence is in the Harrit et al paper. You seem to forget that the chips heated in the DSC test were more than one material. Why do you ignore the gray layer which is oxidised steel?
The gray layer is the source of microspheres as has been shown to you.
The chips consist of 3 very different materials or is that something else you are going to deny even though everyone else is within agreement on this fact, just as everyone else, except yourself is in agreement that chips a-d consist of the same material, namely an identical red and gray layer.
ergo
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That should be pretty easy to confirm. Would like to see that.