Looking for Skeptics

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IXP said:
No wonder she was reluctant to describe exactly how she listens to the spirit voices. When we were asked to listen, she never once suggested that we would need to listen over and over again until we convinced ourselves that we were hearing something. This is spite of the fact that I posted exactly that when I listened to the first recording. What ever happened to unmistakable full sentences?

IXP
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But flaccon does hear unmistakable full sentences. She is genuinely surprised (and a bit suspicious) that I don't. She has never acknowledged that others on this thread did not hear what she hears. She believes that as phonemes then words and phrases appear behind the cacophony that the recording is metaphysically changed, it becomes a different recording.

It's the process you go through when you learn a foreign language. I can listen to tapes of what I once thought were unintelligible garbage and now hear clear and unmistakeable French statements. It is a question of perception - I believe my head has changed but someone else might say the tape has changed.
 
SusanB-M1 said:
Thank youfor posting that. It seems to have rounded things off quite nicely; not satisfactorily of course, since they are still trapped by their belief in spirits.
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Are you possibly imposing your own cultural beliefs here, Susan? It is frighteningly easy to do. I think the same as you. However, millions of people around the world are comforted and motivated by their belief in spirits and consider the likes of us to be the impoverished ones. I find ethical issues like this difficult to debate


SusanB-M1 said:
Do you think they have accepted that there really is not an important message to the world?
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No I don't.

flaccon also has some kind of cloth or garment which (to my eyes) is randomly stained but which she claims is an image of one of her relatives stained in blood. The blood is the blood of the historical Jesus. He put it there. She is seeking for the authorities to have this stain tested to prove its authenticity. This proof will enable her to get the spirits' message to the world.

She was deadly serious when she said this. I couldn't think of anything to say.
 
Alderbank said:
But flaccon does hear unmistakable full sentences. She is genuinely surprised (and a bit suspicious) that I don't. She has never acknowledged that others on this thread did not hear what she hears. She believes that as phonemes then words and phrases appear behind the cacophony that the recording is metaphysically changed, it becomes a different recording.

It's the process you go through when you learn a foreign language. I can listen to tapes of what I once thought were unintelligible garbage and now hear clear and unmistakeable French statements. It is a question of perception - I believe my head has changed but someone else might say the tape has changed.
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Errr....
No.
 
Alderbank said:
flaccon also has some kind of cloth or garment which (to my eyes) is randomly stained but which she claims is an image of one of her relatives stained in blood. The blood is the blood of the historical Jesus. He put it there. She is seeking for the authorities to have this stain tested to prove its authenticity. This proof will enable her to get the spirits' message to the world.

She was deadly serious when she said this. I couldn't think of anything to say.
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Flaccon has her very own Turin Shroud, really?
 
Alderbank said:
Are you possibly imposing your own cultural beliefs here, Susan? It is frighteningly easy to do. I think the same as you. However, millions of people around the world are comforted and motivated by their belief in spirits and consider the likes of us to be the impoverished ones. I find ethical issues like this difficult to debate





No I don't.

flaccon also has some kind of cloth or garment which (to my eyes) is randomly stained but which she claims is an image of one of her relatives stained in blood. The blood is the blood of the historical Jesus. He put it there. She is seeking for the authorities to have this stain tested to prove its authenticity. This proof will enable her to get the spirits' message to the world.

She was deadly serious when she said this. I couldn't think of anything to say.
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I'd smile, nod, make approving sounds and get far, far away.
 
Alderbank said:
... They listen over and over until they make out fragments of speech, flaccon gave the example of hearing ‘f’ and ‘t’ of ‘footsteps’ then hearing the other sounds fit in to make a word. scrappy said he might distinguish a couple of words in a phrase then tell flaccon who would try to pick out the missing words.
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So all the stuff from flaccon at the start of the thread about clear, unmistakable words and complete sentences, was pure BS to spark an interest about nothing unusual; i.e. plain attention seeking.

ETA oops, rather late
 
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Alderbank said:
...flaccon also has some kind of cloth or garment which (to my eyes) is randomly stained but which she claims is an image of one of her relatives stained in blood. The blood is the blood of the historical Jesus. He put it there. She is seeking for the authorities to have this stain tested to prove its authenticity. This proof will enable her to get the spirits' message to the world.

She was deadly serious when she said this. I couldn't think of anything to say.
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flaccon has a 2,000 year old garment in her possession?
How very interesting.
Has she contacted any museums or laboratories to confirm this dating?
 
pakeha said:
flaccon has a 2,000 year old garment in her possession?
How very interesting.
Has she contacted any museums or laboratories to confirm this dating?
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I doubt she is actually claiming that. Rather, I suspect she is claiming that Jesus somehow made it appear SHE was bleeding, but that if the bloodstains are tested they'll be found not to be hers.



I'm a bit scared I seem to understand her claims better than some others here. Maybe it's cos I still have "fresh eyes"?
 
Alderbank said:
...flaccon also has some kind of cloth or garment which (to my eyes) is randomly stained but which she claims is an image of one of her relatives stained in blood. The blood is the blood of the historical Jesus. He put it there. She is seeking for the authorities to have this stain tested to prove its authenticity. This proof will enable her to get the spirits' message to the world.

She was deadly serious when she said this. I couldn't think of anything to say.
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<shakes head>I can't think of anything to say either.



Well, OK, almost nothing: I just wonder what test she thinks would prove it was Jesus' blood. A DNA comparison with God, perhaps.
 
I'll join the chorus of those thanking Alderbank for his time and his thoughtful commentary. I'll also join those expressing disappointment at the prospect that Tracey is unreceptive to an evidential view of reality.
 
Hi all,

As you can see I'm new here. I actually joined the forum in order to post on this thread. I'm coming in late but I wanted to share some information.

I did a little snooping and found several old posts (on a "woo" forum) written by flaccon in late 2005. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share the location or if that violates some privacy issue so I'll hold off until I figure it out.

One of her stories was about the knots in a pine door in her house glowing, which I think she mentioned here, and another was about an image of the devil in a "fresh condensation mark" on the frame of a picture of her mother.

Interestingly, she hasn't changed much in 8 years.

Oh, and she's got a couple of videos on YouTube - I guess they're of the the blood spot faces?
 
Scordatura said:
Hi all,

As you can see I'm new here. I actually joined the forum in order to post on this thread. I'm coming in late but I wanted to share some information.

I did a little snooping and found several old posts (on a "woo" forum) written by flaccon in late 2005. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to share the location or if that violates some privacy issue so I'll hold off until I figure it out.

One of her stories was about the knots in a pine door in her house glowing, which I think she mentioned here, and another was about an image of the devil in a "fresh condensation mark" on the frame of a picture of her mother.

Interestingly, she hasn't changed much in 8 years.

Oh, and she's got a couple of videos on YouTube - I guess they're of the the blood spot faces?
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Welcome. If it's posted on the web then you are good to go.
 
Orphia Nay said:
Very interesting, Scordatura! Welcome to the forum! :w2:

How did you find out about this thread?
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Thanks, Orphia Nay:)

I visit once in a while to see who's arguing about what and that's pretty much how I landed on this thread. The title was vague so I clicked to find out what kind of topic could take over 100 pages.

Not exactly sure why, but I really got sucked into this one. My best guess is that reading all the posts was like reading a case history. Yeah, the subject was just another typical woo claim, but because flaccon (and scrappy) wrote so much I felt like it was an opportunity to, I dunno, "study" her style.

Her posts are filled with extraneous information, vague answers, deflection, etc., yet she managed to create an image of someone who's sincere, a little naive and who should be handled gently. She even got Alderbank to visit her in an effort to help. That's pretty powerful stuff.

It was also interesting to see the different approaches people used to respond to her. BTW, I was impressed at how civil (and patient) everyone was - I mostly hang out on a couple of music forums and one of them is pretty volatile.

Anyway, I could go on for way too long, but that's the gist....
 
The site I mentioned is the forum on unexplained-mysteries. Dunno if I can do an actual link yet - if so I will. Otherwise if you go there you can search "flaccon" and it'll return her posts.

I also found a few other footprints around the web, but mostly accounts she joined and never did anything with.

Oh, and please don't think I'm an obsessive Internet stalker :eek: I am curious by nature but most of my heavy research involves non-people stuff.
 
Cool! Good summary of the thread.

You won't be able to post full links until you have made 15 posts, but you can post the main part of the link if you leave off the "http://www." bit.

I'd like to see what flaccon was like in 2005. Further to what abbadon said, if something is already public, it's fine to share it here.
 
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