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Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Prevent Atheists From Graduating

Joz said:
Seriously? They're not saying you have to mean it. Just say it, it's only a word
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Do you not see a violation of the 1st amendment here? What if they required all people to say "Jesus"? What if they required an homage to Satan? Vishnu?
This is just more evidence that conservatives want to treat nontheists as second class citizens.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Do you not see a violation of the 1st amendment here? What if they required all people to say "Jesus"? What if they required an homage to Satan? Vishnu?
This is just more evidence that conservatives want to treat nontheists as second class citizens.
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Don't you have to take an oath with your hand on the Bible when testifying in court? Do you get offended by that too?

Edited by LashL: 
Edited for civility.
 
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Joz said:
Don't you have to take an oath with your hand on the Bible when testifying in court? Do you get offended by that too?

Edited by LashL: 
Edited for civility.
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You'll be here long.
 
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Joz said:
Seriously? They're not saying you have to mean it. Just say it, it's only a word
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Then what purpose does requiring an oath serve, if its ok that people just say it and not mean it. In every other case where the government requires an oath, there are very serious consequences for not meaning it, up to and including execution.

Joz said:
Don't you have to take an oath with your hand on the Bible when testifying in court? Do you get offended by that too?

Edited by LashL: 
Edited for civility.
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No, you don't. You don't even have to say 'So help me, God', the phrase in dispute here. It is still part of the standard oath, but secularists can testify by issuing an affirmation 'under the penalty of perjury'.


However, as I have stated previously, The response to this feels to me like dealing with the Sirius Cybernetics Corp. The 'under God' is the minor flaw that is distracting everybody from the major flaw of requiring students to swear an oath of loyalty 'freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion' in order to receive a diploma that they have already earned by completing the coursework.
 
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hmmm... why would you care about saying 4 words that you don't even mean? They're not saying you have to believe them in order to graduate, you just have to say them. If you had a serious moral issue with doing homework, do you think you should be excused from doing it just because you're against it?
 
Honestly, the entire oath is stupid. You're not becoming a *********** Federal Attorney. The God bit is the least troubling portion of the entire, jingoistic bile that is being forced on kids who likely have minimal understanding of the ramifications of said oath, given the state of public education in Arizona, of all places.
 
Joz said:
hmmm... why would you care about saying 4 words that you don't even mean? They're not saying you have to believe them in order to graduate, you just have to say them.
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It's that pesky constitution. But I guess ignoring our rights is cool if it accomplishes nothing, eh?

There is also the question of why anyone would actually encourage children to lie. A little strange for an oath of allegiance.
 
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It protects freedom of religion. You don't have religion. WHERE'S YOUR NOT GOD NOW?
 
Joz said:
hmmm... why would you care about saying 4 words that you don't even mean? They're not saying you have to believe them in order to graduate, you just have to say them. If you had a serious moral issue with doing homework, do you think you should be excused from doing it just because you're against it?
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Joz said:
Honestly, the entire oath is stupid. You're not becoming a *********** Federal Attorney. The God bit is the least troubling portion of the entire, jingoistic bile that is being forced on kids who likely have minimal understanding of the ramifications of said oath, given the state of public education in Arizona, of all places.
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If you are going to say two totally inconsistent things then at least let someone post between them so we have to scroll a bit to quote both of them.
 
elbe said:
Atheist children. You know, the subject of the thread.
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And you think that creating an oath is encouraging children to lie? Do you think the Pledge of Allegiance encourages children to lie too? What about singing God Bless America?

For people that are so quick to complain about religious people being over-zealous, they sure are sensitive and offended by seemingly everything.
 
Joz said:
And you think that creating an oath is encouraging children to lie? Do you think the Pledge of Allegiance encourages children to lie too? What about singing God Bless America?

For people that are so quick to complain about religious people being over-zealous, they sure are sensitive and offended by seemingly everything.
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If the oath was to forsake God, would you be offended? After all,they're just words.
 
Joz said:
And you think that creating an oath is encouraging children to lie? Do you think the Pledge of Allegiance encourages children to lie too? What about singing God Bless America?

For people that are so quick to complain about religious people being over-zealous, they sure are sensitive and offended by seemingly everything.
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I appears then, that 'oaths' are absolutely meaningless then. Just words.
 
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