"The reason aliens aren't doing crop circles anymore"

[rjh01]

Knowing that your data might be a few hundred to a couple thousand years out date is not the mistake. Believing it to be accurate and current and acting on it would be the mistake. And, again, it's not a mistake I believe that an advanced space faring race would likely commit.


<snip>

Actually I will address just this point. Suppose aliens visited us every 1,000 years and made an accurate report on what Earth was like. How many of those reports would say that Earth was radically different from the last report? For the last 100 million years that would be 100,000 reports and probably only two or three would be radically different from the last report. They would be when the dinosaurs went extinct and the most recent report or two. So a 1,000 year old report would very probably still be accurate.

 

[SusanB-M1]

It's 06:42 and a minute or two ago I heard the words 'crop circle' on 'Today' (BBC Radio 4) but turned up too late to hear whichnewspaper the report is in!

 

[Akhenaten]

Actually I will address just this point. Suppose aliens visited us every 1,000 years and made an accurate report on what Earth was like.

You can address that point if you like, but it's not the one that was being discussed based on what you originally said:

The above posters are right. However their might be a delay between the unmanned probes and when the aliens arrive. Probes might have looked at Earth 200 years ago and decided everything is OK for takeover. Now when they arrive they find we might put up resistance and so leave.

How many of those reports would say that Earth was radically different from the last report?

Quite a few of them, but that's irrelevant. Do you really think your hypothetical interstellar travellers would only look at pairs of consecutive reports rather than at the bigger picture of the cumulative changes which would be apparent by looking at all of them?

For the last 100 million years that would be 100,000 reports and probably only two or three would be radically different from the last report. They would be when the dinosaurs went extinct and the most recent report or two.

What a strange concept of the Earth's history you have.

So a 1,000 year old report would very probably still be accurate.

Which does, in fact, return us to Mudcat's original point: that you believe these hypothetical visitors are, despite having developed interstellar travel (and now you've added the twist that they've been undertaking it for 100 million years) extremely stupid.

 

[Akhenaten]

And that's not to mention the silliness of basing one's ideas in the first place on a suppostion that a single space-faring race has visited the Earth 100,000 times over a period of 100 million years.

Although it would certainly explain why they've run out of resources on their home world, it doesn't do much to address the reason for them not making crop circles any more.

 

[EHocking]

...and the silliness of assuming that they would think like humans let alone hold Western values. Which seems to be the basis of most assumptions here...

 

[Senex]

Okay, first, I want a badger hat like that! (And to look like that at my age, fwiw.) Secondly: Brian May led the protest?! Dr. Brian May, guitar deity and astrophysicist? He gets cooler by the second.

Thanks for sharing, Senex!

You're welcome. I'm a big supporter of our wildlife. If any aliens come for our badgers they are going to have to go through me first.

 

[tuxcat]

...and the silliness of assuming that they would think like humans let alone hold Western values. Which seems to be the basis of most assumptions here...

Pretty much - it's homo sapien chauvinism to assume that they are interstellar humans and will use our languages, concepts and thinking skills. What these assumptions are based on I have no idea.

 

[Akhenaten]

Pretty much - it's homo sapien chauvinism to assume that they are interstellar humans and will use our languages, concepts and thinking skills. What these assumptions are based on I have no idea.

I'm going with poorly-remembered episodes of Star Trek with a dash of Mars Attacks! and Independence Day.

 

[Mudcat]

Which does, in fact, return us to Mudcat's original point: that you believe these hypothetical visitors are, despite having developed interstellar travel extremely stupid.

I blame it on modern science-fiction, personally.

...and the silliness of assuming that they would think like humans let alone hold Western values. Which seems to be the basis of most assumptions here...

I don't see that most of my objections need to assume human mentality or values, but could apply to any kind of intelligence you wish to hypothesize.

Pretty much - it's homo sapien chauvinism to assume that they are interstellar humans and will use our languages, concepts and thinking skills. What these assumptions are based on I have no idea.

We still don't know if warp drive, or any other faster than light travel, is even possible or that any race out there that would potentially visit us would have it. So in order to visit us they would have to slow boat it through the past hundred years of radio transmissions that we have been transmitting. Why a decently intelligent space faring race would at the very least understand English is hard to accept is beyond me.

 

[rjh01]

You can address that point if you like, but it's not the one that was being discussed based on what you originally said:

​

Quite a few of them, but that's irrelevant. Do you really think your hypothetical interstellar travellers would only look at pairs of consecutive reports rather than at the bigger picture of the cumulative changes which would be apparent by looking at all of them?






What a strange concept of the Earth's history you have.






Which does, in fact, return us to Mudcat's original point: that you believe these hypothetical visitors are, despite having developed interstellar travel (and now you've added the twist that they've been undertaking it for 100 million years) extremely stupid.

This post is 100% garbage.

 

[Mudcat]

And that's not to mention the silliness of basing one's ideas in the first place on a suppostion that a single space-faring race has visited the Earth 100,000 times over a period of 100 million years.

Although it would certainly explain why they've run out of resources on their home world, it doesn't do much to address the reason for them not making crop circles any more.

On the contrary it's likely that we'll find, as the relavant technology advances, that even interstellar travel will become easier and use less resources.

 

[GlennB]

On the contrary it's likely that we'll find, as the relavant technology advances, that even interstellar travel will become easier and use less resources.

What "technology"?

 

[EHocking]

...I don't see that most of my objections need to assume human mentality or values, but could apply to any kind of intelligence you wish to hypothesize...

OK, my post wasn't actually directed at your posts, but I'll take it on anyway.

Having travelled on this planet, I have met and talked to people who's values, aims and life outlook are markedly different to mine.
To assume that the brain chemistry of a totally different species to us would function the same as ours is, to me, quite a stretch.

I'm approaching this as Wittgenstein did talking to lions.

We still don't know if warp drive, or any other faster than light travel, is even possible or that any race out there that would potentially visit us would have it. So in order to visit us they would have to slow boat it through the past hundred years of radio transmissions that we have been transmitting. Why a decently intelligent space faring race would at the very least understand English is hard to accept is beyond me.

I find it hard to accept, since fewer than 5% of the people on earth are native English speakers.

 

[Mudcat]

What "technology"?

How should I know? I'm certain there are people way smarter than me that could hypothosize what kind of technology would be needed, hence I simply say "the relevant technologies".

Having travelled on this planet, I have met and talked to people who's values, aims and life outlook are markedly different to mine.

I assume that any intelligent alien race out there, regardless of whether or not they are spacefaring, are made up of individuals each with their own needs, desires, values, aims, and outlook on life.

How is that terribly different from human beings?

I'm approaching this as Wittgenstein did talking to lions.
I find it hard to accept, since fewer than 5% of the people on earth are native English speakers.

I was merely using English as an example, they could just as easily learn Spanish, German, Japanese, or any other spoken language while slow boating through our solar system.

 

[rjh01]

It is not the % of people who speak English that is important it is the % of TV, radio broadcasts that are in English that is important. I would suggest that this number is higher than 5%.

Seriously travel between the stars at close to the speed of light would require enormous power. At 10% of the speed of light it would require 0.5*(3X10^7)^2 = 1.5*10^5 Gigajoules per kilogram. Whoever does it must first discover a new way of generating power. The alternative is something like warp drive, which we have no idea how it works or even if it exists. Maybe in 200 years time we would never have left the solar system (bar a few unmanned space craft that took decades to do so).

 

[Archer17]

I'm not sure our radio/TV signals would be received, at least with the necessary coherency, at the distances necessary for any hypothetical ET to decipher.

Interesting thread, though. Regarding crop circles, kinda dumb for ET to have to resort to cereal-swirls when there's so many other ways to shake the tree. Graffiti on the moon would be my choice if I was an ET and had to make a noticeable doodle...but that just me and I'm a Earthling. Maybe their wisdom escapes me...

 

[AdMan]

Crop circles slammed as the work of 'amateurs' as their numbers plummet

Just 15 were counted in July compared with more than 50 last year, and according to experts they pale in comparison to their predecessors, leading some to rename them “crap circles”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ork-of-amateurs-as-their-numbers-plummet.html

 

[Orphia Nay]

Crop circles slammed as the work of 'amateurs' as their numbers plummet





http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...ork-of-amateurs-as-their-numbers-plummet.html

Thanks for the link!

The "aliens" got bored!

 

[Mudcat]

I'm not sure our radio/TV signals would be received, at least with the necessary coherency, at the distances necessary for any hypothetical ET to decipher.

I have doubts that our signals would be intelligible at the edge of our solar system, nevermind our closest interstellar neighbor. It's for this reason I believe that there is an advanced alien race capable of visiting us then they would need to be within our local star group to be able to locate us. For that reason I think it's safe to conclude that there aren't any.

 

[rjh01]

I have doubts that our signals would be intelligible at the edge of our solar system, nevermind our closest interstellar neighbor. It's for this reason I believe that there is an advanced alien race capable of visiting us then they would need to be within our local star group to be able to locate us. For that reason I think it's safe to conclude that there aren't any.

Actually our radio waves would be detectable from a few light years away. Any further and it would be hard to differentiate from background noise. Read something here http://zidbits.com/2011/07/how-far-have-radio-signals-traveled-from-earth/ or here http://io9.com/are-we-screwing-ourselves-by-transmitting-radio-signals-493800730