Merged Continuation Part 2: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Belz...]

Not seeing the irony there, as self defense is not vigilantism.

But from what I understand he took the law into his own hands (vigilantism) by ignoring police instructions and pursuing Martin. I didn't follow this too closely, but am I wrong ? If not, then it's quite ironic that his brother claims he will be afraid of similar behaviours by others.

 

[Kestrel]

Again, did the jurors find GZ not guilty because they are stupid and not able to understand all these 'facts' that you are explaining ? Were they 'stealth jurors', as Leatherman claimed ?

You do have a point. As we all know, trial jurors are chosen because they have brilliant analytical minds. They are the brightest people in the county and have proven their ability to understand complex reasoning.

If we chose jurors because they didn't pay attention to current events in their own county, it would be another matter.

 

[Kestrel]

Thanks for that link, watching that refreshed my memory on that exchange. Question for all those who believe a not guilty verdict was the appropriate verdict.

Starting at about 12:00 and shortly thereafter he gets to the point where he claims TM said "you're going to die tonight ************". I've never ruled out the possibility that GZ is lying about some of this and that is one part that sticks out to me that sounds really suspicious. Do you not find the statement unlikely? Do you really think TM intended to kill GZ (rather than just beat him up)?

Yes, I find that statement unlikely. I have a similar reaction to George's claim that Trayvon said "you got me" after part of his heart has been blown away.

 

[Wolrab]

Is the federal government preparing a civil rights case? It seems apparent to me that GZ's civil rights were blatantly violated.

 

[Virus]

Traytards beat up Latino and steal his bike at butthurt traytard protest:

Negrete said he dropped the wrench when it didn’t scare off the aggressors. He also dropped his bicycle and canteen at his feet and lifted his shirt.

Negrete said he didn’t see who hit him. He was punched once in the back of the head. Another person grabbed his bike and rode off, but that was it.

“It just made me feel so small,” he said.

In addition to a bunch of other random assaults and vandalism.

 

[bynmdsue]

But from what I understand he took the law into his own hands (vigilantism) by ignoring police instructions and pursuing Martin. I didn't follow this too closely, but am I wrong ? If not, then it's quite ironic that his brother claims he will be afraid of similar behaviours by others.

The non emergency operator, even the 911 operator are not the police. They have as much "authority" to tell someone to do or not to do something as the guy who mops the floor at the police station.

The operator on the line with Zimmerman testified in the trial for the state that "We don't need you to do that" is something they say to cover themselves against liability lawsuits.

Anyways after the "We don't need you to do that", Zimmerman sais "Okay" and he says he was returning to the truck. So he didn't disobey.

 

[Dissolution]

The evidence points to Trayvon on top of George, holding George's arms to keep from being hit. Unless Trayvon has three arms, he can't be slugging George. He is simply controlling a creepy guy that followed him and tried to grab him.

What evidence supports this?
The fact that Zimmenman pulled his gun and shot Martin would seem to be evidence against it, for a start.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You do have a point. As we all know, trial jurors are chosen because they have brilliant analytical minds. They are the brightest people in the county and have proven their ability to understand complex reasoning.
If we chose jurors because they didn't pay attention to current events in their own county, it would be another matter.

Yes, juries are made up of people too stupid to get out of jury duty.

We can at least assume they paid attention to what was presented at the trial. We know you didn't, as you have repeatedly mis-stated the facts of the case in your posts.

 

[WildCat]

But from what I understand he took the law into his own hands (vigilantism) by ignoring police instructions and pursuing Martin. I didn't follow this too closely, but am I wrong ?

Yes, you are wrong. There were no "police instructions", and there was no evidence of a pursuit of Martin.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

As was stated by several posters, the FBI was not finished with their investigation into possible racist behaviour by GZ.

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2013/July/13-opa-788.html

Justice Department Statement on the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman Case

"As the Department first acknowledged last year, we have an open investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin. The Department of Justice's Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division, the United States Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation continue to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal investigation, as well as the evidence and testimony from the state trial. Experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction, and whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the Department's policy governing successive federal prosecution following a state trial.”

Let me translate. "We have no basis and no plans to do anything regarding this case"

 

[Toontown]

You do have a point. As we all know, trial jurors are chosen because they have brilliant analytical minds. They are the brightest people in the county and have proven their ability to understand complex reasoning.

If we chose jurors because they didn't pay attention to current events in their own county, it would be another matter.

No information is orders of magnitude superior to disinformation.

By the time the jury gave it's verdict, they knew orders of magnitude more about this case and their responsibilities under the law than you've shown any indication of knowing.

 

[This is The End]

IIRC, GZ did in fact have his blood tested, as there is a law in Florida that allows for that, if an officer has PC to believe the person is under the influence. 790.155 in FL SS is the relevant statute. I do believe that I saw that GZ's blood was in fact tested and clear of any intoxicants.

Could you please find a cite for that?

 

[Cylinder]

Jeantel: I think Trayvon threw the first punch

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

The George Zimmerman we saw in court was an out of shape fat guy. Roughly 100 pounds heavier than the George Zimmerman that Trayvon Martin encountered on the day he was shot.

At the time of the shooting, George was a somewhat athletic looking guy with a shaved head who had been working out regularly.

The posters here on JREF keep forgetting that and I suspect the same is true of the jury. Even after seeing the pictures of George at the time of the crime, their image of George would be dominated by the person they saw every day in court. Did George's lawyers advise him to stop working out?

If the pants don't fit, you must acquit?

 

[Toontown]

Traytards beat up Latino and steal his bike at butthurt traytard protest:



In addition to a bunch of other random assaults and vandalism.

Yes, their cunning plan to bully 'the system' into allowing them to randomly attack anyone with complete immunity from both the law and the victim seems to be working - so far.

It was already a demonstrable fact that a bike trip to Walmart to buy a bag of skittles is fraught with risk.

 

[Kestrel]

No information is orders of magnitude superior to disinformation.

By the time the jury gave it's verdict, they knew orders of magnitude more about this case and their responsibilities under the law than you've shown any indication of knowing.

A jury trial is a system for making a decision, it doesn't always arrive at the truth. We should understand the jurors can and do make mistakes in logic and the law.

To give an example, Juror B37 put great stock in the statement by a police officer that he believed George Zimmerman. Disregarding specific instructions from the judge to ignore that statement.

 

[Noztradamus]

Originally Posted by TellyKNeasuss
An out of shape fat guy carrying a gun in a holster.

The George Zimmerman we saw in court was an out of shape fat guy. Roughly 100 pounds heavier than the George Zimmerman that Trayvon Martin encountered on the day he was shot.

At the time of the shooting, George was a somewhat athletic looking guy with a shaved head who had been working out regularly.

The posters here on JREF keep forgetting that and I suspect the same is true of the jury. Even after seeing the pictures of George at the time of the crime, their image of George would be dominated by the person they saw every day in court. Did George's lawyers advise him to stop working out?

Butterball or anorexic?

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/zimmerman-full-shot.jpg

 

[Toontown]

Jeantel: I think Trayvon threw the first punch

Jeantel is forever thinking stuff. She thinks, therefore everyone hangs on her every word. During her testimony, she thought "Trayvon got hit" and was immediately scolded by West, who is apparently immune to her voodoo thoughts.

Wish I could think so powerfully that everyone would hang on my every thought. I would soon rule the world...bwahaha...

 

[MiloMinderbinder]

As was stated by several posters, the FBI was not finished with their investigation into possible racist behaviour by GZ.

Justice Department Statement on the Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman Case

"As the Department first acknowledged last year, we have an open investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin. The Department of Justice's Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division, the United States Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida, and the Federal Bureau of Investigation continue to evaluate the evidence generated during the federal investigation, as well as the evidence and testimony from the state trial. Experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction, and whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the Department's policy governing successive federal prosecution following a state trial.”

I can't see how it matters if the case is still open. They make their findings available to prosecutors, and apparently there was nothing useful. Seems like wordplay to say the FBI isn't finished. They're still looking for Jimmy Hoffa, too.

 

[WildCat]

Jeantel: I think Trayvon threw the first punch

She must have forgot about that part in the trial.

I like the leading question "what do you think George Zimmerman did to make Trayvon throw the first punch?"