Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Wildhorses]

Obviously we disagree. Rudi if subjected to cross would break down. Quizzed on why he said they weren't there in the Skype call but changed his story. His story can't stand the rigors of cross. Going through his story of the left handed man and all just would come off as lies. He won't testify but just asking makes for good press.

Napoleoni can't lie effectively since she wasn't there. She would be exposed for the later messing with the data base etc. What would she say they did on the 6th and 7th in the cottage?

Yep, we disagree. Rudy's a wild card. Very wild. I wouldn't risk it.

Nevertheless, if it's true he wouldn't testify, no harm asking.

Napoleoni: I'm only semi-obsessed with this case. I may have missed something. Offhand, it's not clear to me what you're hoping she'd say. Whatever it is, I expect her to be pretty good at covering her ass.

If there is exculpatory evidence there, of course.

I find it maddening this is not known with certainty. For all the thousands of words that get posted about this case daily, you'd think we'd know.

My opinion on the computer evidence is based on what I've read here. Insider-type posters have said it is exculpatory. (And I recall a link to a nice explanation of how/why various forensic software tools probe different subsystems). IF there's data showing someone was on the computer at Raff's house all night, at least one of the principals is off the hook. I see no way around it. Computer logs don't lie.

My impression is multiple lines of evidence show the computer was in use, but I haven't read of a translation of Raff's appeal.

Lesser importance and difficult to do now since things probably changed.

You're mistaken about the difficulty. I live and work in Silicon Valley. I know communication companies. The right engineer could settle the issue in milliseconds. Doesn't matter if things have changed. I guarantee you communication companies have boatloads of documentation on the configuration of cell towers at the time of the murder.

Seems to me it's very important because it puts a 10:00 limit on TOD. And like computer logs, cell network data doesn't lie.

The provenance of that call doesn't have to be a matter of opinion. It can and should be clarified by experts, not left to the antics of Keystone Cops.

 

[Wildhorses]

I would love to see all 3 on the stand, Amanda, Raff and Rudi and all 3 cross examined by defence and prosecution alike. I would love to see the 3 of them alone in a room, bugged and tapped and see what is said between them.

I imagine we'd all love to see them alone in a room, bugged and taped.

Too bad it'll never happen.

 

[Kestrel]

I would love to see all 3 on the stand, Amanda, Raff and Rudi and all 3 cross examined by defence and prosecution alike. I would love to see the 3 of them alone in a room, bugged and tapped and see what is said between them.

Amanda and Raffaele had their phone calls, their prison cells and every conversation with their lawyers recorded. The phones of their family members and friends were also bugged. The result was the Perugia investigators found nothing of value.

Or perhaps they did. They knew when Amanda's mother would be getting into town. This gave them a deadline for forcing a confession or at least a statement that implied guilt out of Amanda.

 

[Dan O.]

And it's not just the phones that were monitored. Even the environment was monitored beginning with the waiting room at the police station where the police brought all of the kids shortly after the murder was discovered. It seems like the only place Amanda and Raffaele were after the 2nd that they were not being recorded was in the interrogation room.

 

[acbytesla]

Interesting, and possible, but I don't think she will be testifying to anything, she didn't last time, just spontaneous declarations I believe, and I doubt they would set anything up for that.

She did in fact testify last time, in Italian. Well she made a statement to the court.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

not that Massei was paying attention

She did in fact testify last time, in Italian. Well she made a statement to the court.

And of course she testified at the trial of first instance.

 

[acbytesla]

Yep, we disagree. Rudy's a wild card. Very wild. I wouldn't risk it.

My opinion on the computer evidence is based on what I've read here. Insider-type posters have said it is exculpatory. (And I recall a link to a nice explanation of how/why various forensic software tools probe different subsystems). IF there's data showing someone was on the computer at Raff's house all night, at least one of the principals is off the hook. I see no way around it. Computer logs don't lie.

My impression is multiple lines of evidence show the computer was in use, but I haven't read of a translation of Raff's appeal.



You're mistaken about the difficulty. I live and work in Silicon Valley. I know communication companies. The right engineer could settle the issue in milliseconds. Doesn't matter if things have changed. I guarantee you communication companies have boatloads of documentation on the configuration of cell towers at the time of the murder.

Seems to me it's very important because it puts a 10:00 limit on TOD. And like computer logs, cell network data doesn't lie.

The provenance of that call doesn't have to be a matter of opinion. It can and should be clarified by experts, not left to the antics of Keystone Cops.

Wild horses, I haven't seen you on the forum before, welcome. Over the last several years there has been much discussion about the computer and cellular evidence in detail. Dan O, Charles Wilkes and I have all done a great deal of work regarding these issues.

There is little doubt that the Scientific Police in Italy are truly the Keystone cops when it comes to the computer and cellular communications evidence. Their screw ups have been of biblical proportions. There is nothing expert about their Scientific Police. That said, they remain arrogant and their judicial system has blindly backed them up.

I have written in great detail why the 10:13 call routed by a distant cell tower to Meredith's phone almost certainly did NOT take place at the cottage which logically leads to the fact that Meredith had already been killed and Rudy had left with her phones.

Others have written about computer interactions on Raffaele's computer including the downloading of a movie called Naruto.

You would think the Italian courts would accept the significant scientific and technological evidence that demonstrates not just how unlikely the two could have been involved with this crime, but couldn't have been involved with this crime.

But Italy's judicial system is like a Lewis Carrol book.

 

[acbytesla]

And of course she testified at the trial of first instance.

It is my understanding that the third trial is supposed to only deal with the points that the ISC made in it's motivation. So I doubt that they will need or ask for a testimony from either Raffaele or Amanda. A streamlined version of the trial and not a total do over from square one. Still I think any judge probably knows that this will be his show and he can run it anyway he wants. I seriously can't imagine the ISC overruling another court decision. But I've been wrong before.

 

[Dan O.]

There is little doubt that the Scientific Police in Italy are truly the Keystone cops when it comes to the computer and cellular communications evidence.

You insult the good name of the Keystone Cops.

 

[acbytesla]

You insult the good name of the Keystone Cops.

My apologies Mr. Max Sennett

 

[Mary_H]

Always good to have Sherlock on the case.

Is it permissible for one that isn't PG to disagree with Amanda's self assessment of her speaking and writing prowess? She isn't good on TV or in court.

She could put a produced clear statement that she had nothing to do with the murder, nothing. She could make it clear that she can only tell the story of what happened to her. She could precisely and concisely describe the interrogation and read from her handwritten submissions to the PLE and explain that she feared going completely back on the signed statements because they had threatened her with dire consequences were she to do so. She could plead for expert reviews because she and Raf were only after the truth, no tricks.

Amanda does all that in her book. If they really want to know her point of view, they can read the book. If they want to hear her voice, they can buy the audiotape.

I'm sure Amanda has learned that anything she says falls on deaf ears. She should just go about her business and allow the Old Boys to carry on with their back-slapping and delusions until they're finally dead and Italy is bankrupt.

Kind of like why I said 'who knows', don't you think. Maybe Raff was trying to get back with Amanda and her mom went along just to make sure they weren't planning another murder.....who knows, personally I feel it had to be trial related and something he wasn't comfortable talking about on the phone which may be bugged..... again, who knows.

Amanda and her mother were in NYC to appear on Good Morning America. Raff is living nearby, that's all.

Raffaele should not go to Florence to face trial. They will arrest him and throw him in jail as soon as they get a chance. He has a great lawyer; she can defend him without him being there. He was hardly there at the other trials, anyway.

 

[acbytesla]

Slightly off topic, but it has to to do with the media. I couldn't resist passing this on. Here is how TV stations etc and other news organization getting it wrong. But this one takes the cake in my book. KTVU a California TV News station reported on the air the 4 names of the pilots of the Asiana plane crash.

Asiana is considering suing the news station and the NTSB because an intern there confirmed these names.

Captain Sum Ting Wong
Wi Tu Low
Ho Lee Fuk
Bang Ding OW.

I couldn't stop laughing after I read this. Had to share. But it is a true story. ...still laughing.

 

[anglolawyer]

Slightly off topic, but it has to to do with the media. I couldn't resist passing this on. Here is how TV stations etc and other news organization getting it wrong. But this one takes the cake in my book. KTVU a California TV News station reported on the air the 4 names of the pilots of the Asiana plane crash.

Asiana is considering suing the news station and the NTSB because an intern there confirmed these names.

Captain Sum Ting Wong
Wi Tu Low
Ho Lee Fuk
Bang Ding OW.

I couldn't stop laughing after I read this. Had to share. But it is a true story. ...still laughing.

There is a thread here about this already.

 

[Wildhorses]

Slightly off topic, but it has to to do with the media. I couldn't resist passing this on. Here is how TV stations etc and other news organization getting it wrong. But this one takes the cake in my book. KTVU a California TV News station reported on the air the 4 names of the pilots of the Asiana plane crash.

Asiana is considering suing the news station and the NTSB because an intern there confirmed these names.

Captain Sum Ting Wong
Wi Tu Low
Ho Lee Fuk
Bang Ding OW.

I couldn't stop laughing after I read this. Had to share. But it is a true story. ...still laughing.

Yep, that's my local news channel. Sum Dum Fuk is gonna get fired for providing those names.

I'm itching to respond to your other post but can't do it now. I'm only get three-minute breaks from parenting duties.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Amanda and her mother were in NYC to appear on Good Morning America. Raff is living nearby, that's all.

Raffaele should not go to Florence to face trial. They will arrest him and throw him in jail as soon as they get a chance. He has a great lawyer; she can defend him without him being there. He was hardly there at the other trials, anyway.

And there is a good answer, Raff probably planned his trip to coincide with hers.

Raff's dad said he will (Raff) be there, and I have the feeling what he says, goes. We shall see though, I doubt they would lock him up, unless their guilty verdict is upheld.

 

[acbytesla]

There is a thread here about this already.

Of course there is... I missed this when it happened...probably wasn't that funny then.. But in hindsight reading it now, just cracks me up. This is the kind of off color joke you tell off the air..but to broadcast it??? Sum Ting Stupid is what it is.. Unbelievable.

 

[Grinder]

And there is a good answer, Raff probably planned his trip to coincide with hers.

Raff's dad said he will (Raff) be there, and I have the feeling what he says, goes. We shall see though, I doubt they would lock him up, unless their guilty verdict is upheld.

As I told you up-thread he is staying with relatives in NJ. He went to NYC to meet up with her, of course.

They locked both of them up with next to no evidence - none of the witnesses had come forward - when the shoes went away against Raf they had nothing yet they kept them locked up. No luminol prints.

As has been pointed out by others they recorded everything including conversations with their lawyers. I wouldn't return to Italy if Raf unless forced. I'd find a nice Italian neighborhood in Rio.

 

[Grinder]

Amanda does all that in her book. If they really want to know her point of view, they can read the book. If they want to hear her voice, they can buy the audiotape.

I said precisely and concisely.

I'm sure Amanda has learned that anything she says falls on deaf ears. She should just go about her business and allow the Old Boys to carry on with their back-slapping and delusions until they're finally dead and Italy is bankrupt.

Well she didn't really say much while in jail. She didn't have the chance to produce a speech and have numerous takes. Her style has never worked for me, mask of an assassin etc. She thinks she is something she's not, the coiner of great phrases and comes off as an actress. I mean what was she thinking when she wore the "all you need is love" sweatshirt?

She needs for it to play here more than there.

 

[acbytesla]

I said precisely and concisely.



Well she didn't really say much while in jail. She didn't have the chance to produce a speech and have numerous takes. Her style has never worked for me, mask of an assassin etc. She thinks she is something she's not, the coiner of great phrases and comes off as an actress. I mean what was she thinking when she wore the "all you need is love" sweatshirt?

She needs for it to play here more than there.

I think you are too critical Grinder. I haven't been that impressed with her television appearances. But I felt she was very sincere. But I'm biased. She is too emotional, but I understand the emotion. I think she is still, very afraid and traumatized by all this.

She's made some media mistakes, but I've chalked that up to her being goofy. Which I'm convinced she was before all of this. I think people are nitpicking and second guessing a very young girl. I keep waiting for her to become a confident adult and develop good presentation skills for tv. If I had been working with her. I would have spent two weeks in front of a camera hammering her with questions, working out the answer and then go over the video and then doing it again and again. Make her polished and sure of herself.

 

[Grinder]

I think you are too critical Grinder.

Critical absolutely. Too critical, maybe not so much.

I haven't been that impressed with her television appearances. But I felt she was very sincere. But I'm biased. She is too emotional, but I understand the emotion. I think she is still, very afraid and traumatized by all this.

You're not impressed and you are on her team, figuratively. Playing strategist here, I don't care why she isn't effective. I am suggesting how to best approach this given the realities.

She's made some media mistakes, but I've chalked that up to her being goofy. Which I'm convinced she was before all of this. I think people are nitpicking and second guessing a very young girl. I keep waiting for her to become a confident adult and develop good presentation skills for tv. If I had been working with her. I would have spent two weeks in front of a camera hammering her with questions, working out the answer and then go over the video and then doing it again and again. Make her polished and sure of herself.

Okay I don't see why you say I'm too critical. I happen to think she is ditsy and somewhat of an idiot savant. She may well be narcissistic and certainly seems immature even in the the just completed round of book promo media tour.

I would assume that someone has tried to work with her but it hasn't produced the result needed, as you point out.