Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[anglolawyer]

Here it be...

http://www.sciencespheres.com/2010/04/inevitable-unexpected-and-theory-of.html

Thankee

 

[RoseMontague]

Thankee

I love the way Waterbury writes. That one as well as his Through the Motivation Report posts are terrific. I am told his more science based posts are pretty good as well but I just enjoy his writing style.

 

[anglolawyer]

I love the way Waterbury writes. That one as well as his Through the Motivation Report posts are terrific. I am told his more science based posts are pretty good as well but I just enjoy his writing style.

I didn't realise I was making a Waterbury reference. (Look away now Grinder) I enjoyed Monster of Perugia - funny and excoriating.

 

[RoseMontague]

I didn't realise I was making a Waterbury reference. (Look away now Grinder) I enjoyed Monster of Perugia - funny and excoriating.

Not really. I just remember that he had the link to the (edited) Graham article in that post. Strange way the mind works, I guess.

 

[Grinder]

off topic a little, but the financial burden is so great for a private defense to prove their innocence, when the prosecution just makes outlandish fanatical claims, like sex orgys partys....

its obvious, in a system like this many without money would be found guilty due to not having finances. At times I even think the Perugia mafia-like cops assume people cant defend themselves financially, and if they can, the prosecution will just pile up more and more charges and trials until the accused just give up by reason of being poor.

This is why I am suggesting that they plead poverty and ask the state to pat for their defense lawyers. They could still raise money for expert defense witnesses while at the same time asking the court to hire independents for DNA, footprints and TOD. If TOD comes back earlier, even 10 it make it really tough on the prosecution. DNA and footprints are obvious.

I don't understand how a system that allows trials of so many years, can be ignorant to the financial impossibilities for anyone other than extremely rich people to fairly continue.

They are aware and do provide public defenders but like anywhere the rich and connected have advantage.

 

[Grinder]

I'll look there next, thanks.


They could use you on the team. Your great point on how Massei amended Curatolo then the SC forgot prompts me to add the suggestion that the defence should demand what no PGP can manage, a timeline that fits the 'evidence' and makes sense.

Another random point: what osmotic principle allowed them to throw out Kokomani? Whatever it was, why doesn't it apply to other impossible evidence, like Curatolo's for example?

Thank you for the props. Koko's was throw out because he appeared to be nuts and had some basic facts wrong..

How are people here defining osmotic? Btw, I would recommend the defense stay away from esoteric words and speak in plain language that can easily be translated.

I would add another idea that the defense request a judge that sat on the panel that convicted Mignini for illegal wiretapping etc. This would be a very public request and would remind people of the Mignini conviction and how he won't apparently have to face charges again as the kids must.

They need to move asap.

 

[acbytesla]

I love the way Waterbury writes. That one as well as his Through the Motivation Report posts are terrific. I am told his more science based posts are pretty good as well but I just enjoy his writing style.

I have to agree with you on that Rose, He his very good. I wish I could write half as well as him.

 

[anglolawyer]

Thank you for the props. Koko's was throw out because he appeared to be nuts and had some basic facts wrong..

How are people here defining osmotic? Btw, I would recommend the defense stay away from esoteric words and speak in plain language that can easily be translated.

I would add another idea that the defense request a judge that sat on the panel that convicted Mignini for illegal wiretapping etc. This would be a very public request and would remind people of the Mignini conviction and how he won't apparently have to face charges again as the kids must.

They need to move asap.

When I use 'osmotic' I am always, always mocking ridiculous Italian pseudo intellectaulism. I don't believe the word has any useful meaning, like 'Bayesian'

I agree, if the defence is allowed to handpick the judges that will quash and suspicion of bias. This is one of your best ideas to date!

 

[Grinder]

When I use 'osmotic' I am always, always mocking ridiculous Italian pseudo intellectaulism. I don't believe the word has any useful meaning, like 'Bayesian'

I agree, if the defence is allowed to handpick the judges that will quash and suspicion of bias. This is one of your best ideas to date!

Is there a tongue in cheek symbol?

Just asking for a judge that has shown not to be in Mignini's pocket and doing it publicly will have an impact here. It may upset the Italians but I really think winning there has become quite a long-shot.

Expert testimony that is not allowed should bought from a neutral party i.e. not Steve Moore or Waterbury, and published. They should go for papers that can be published in peer reviewed journals.

They really need the aircraft carrier of PR and they shouldn't use the "railroad job from hell" approach but rather rifle shots at specific pieces of the prosecution's case.

DNA, TOD and footprints, debunk those and the case vanishes. Demand proof of the cleanup. They have the logic of both the Massei court and the SC so the targets are clear.

Quntavalle is ruled credible because he knew she had blue eyes when that was published months before he came out of the closet. Ask publicly that he be charged with calumnia or misleading the PLE because he lied to the police investigator or lied about seeing Amanda. I say the latter.

 

[Rolfe]

Thank you Dan. i knew you would know what is to be known.

What osmotic principles does Italy use to decide when to believe a liar and when not? The frustrating thing about Rudy's tale is he time stamps the beginning but not the end, when he took a dump. Maybe Rolfe (where is Rolfe?) should tell us how long it takes for a kebab to induce a bowel movement.

Just catching up, sort of half-heartedly, as this thread makes Groundhog Day seem fresh and new.

1. On the date of the post, crossing the Arctic circle in a hot tub, under cloudless skies.
2. Your guess is as good as mine. Eat a kebab and find out.

Rolfe.

ETA: I tell a lie. The Arctic circle was on the third. On the sixth we were steaming past Bear Island en route to Svalbard.

 

[anglolawyer]

Just catching up, sort of half-heartedly, as this thread makes Groundhog Day seem fresh and new.

1. On the date of the post, crossing the Arctic circle in a hot tub, under cloudless skies.
2. Your guess is as good as mine. Eat a kebab and find out.

Rolfe.

Yo Rolfe! Don't go too far to the pole. You may be the star witness in Florence.

 

[Dan O.]

Here is Page 2 of the Test Results:

===italian===

• Rep.07 - Nr.1 Campionatura di presunta sostanza ematica prelevata dal pavimento
  antistante la porta che da accesso all'intercapedine (già Rep.7) >pagg.17 A.F./25 R ;
• Rep.28 - Nr.2 Campionature di presunta sostanza ematica prelevate
  dall'interruttore della luce posto sulla parete posteriore dell'ambiente (già Re.
  10/A-B) >pagg.17 A.F./59 R.;
  
  Gradini esterni della scala in pietra e zone limitrofe alla casa di Via della Pergola
  nr.7.
• Rep.08 - Nr.8 Campionature di presunta sostanza ematica prelevate dal 1º-3º-4º-5º-
  11º-16º-18º-24º gradino (già Rep.1-Rep.2-Rep.3-Rep.4-Rep.5-Rep.6-Rep.7-Rep.9)
  >pagg.1 A.F./26 R.;
• Rep.09 - Nr.1 Campionature di presunta sostanza ematica prelevate dal muretto
  posto lateralmente al 21º gradino (già Rep.6) >pagg.2 A.F./28 R.;
• Rep.10 - Nr.1 Campionature di presunta sostanza ematica prelevate dalla zona
  antistante la porta di ingresso all'appartamento seminterrato (già Rep.10) >pagg.2
  A.F./29 R.;
• Rep.11 - Fazzoletto di carta rinvenuto sul tratto di pavimentazione (già Rep.10) >pagg.2
  A.F./29 R.;
• Rep.17 - Fazzoletto di carta contrassegnato con la lettera "C" , rinvenuto sul lato
  destro del muro del viaggetto che porta alla casa di Via della Pergola nr.7 (verbale di
  repertazione e sequestro datato 05/11/2007) >pagg.4 A.F./42 R.;
• Rep.18 - Fazzoletto di carta contrassegnato con la lettera "D" , rinvenuto in Via
  della Pergola, all'altezza del civico nr.10 (verbale di repertazione e sequestro datato
  05/11/2007) >pagg.4 A.F./44 R,;
• Rep.19 - Fazzoletto di carta contrassegnato con la sigla "DX" , rinvenuto in Via S.
  Antonio (Relazione deo rilievi descrittivi effettuati dal Gabinetto Provinciale di
  Polizia Scientifica di Perugia) >pagg.7 A.F./46 R,;
• Rep.20 - Fazzoletto di carta contrassegnato con la sigla "SX" , rinvenuto in Via S.
  Antonio (Relazione deo rilievi descrittivi effettuati dal Gabinetto Provinciale di
  Polizia Scientifica di Perugia) >pagg.7 A.F./48 R,;
  
  Campioni biologici e reperti prelevati dal corpo della vittima KERCHER Meredith
  Susanna Cara.
• Rep.12 - Nr.3 tamponi vaginali effettuati alla vittima (consegnati personalmente
  alla scrivente dal medico-legale Dr. Lalli) >pagg.18 A.F./33 R,;
• Rep.13 - Nr.3 tamponi rettali effettuati alla vittima (consegnati personalmente alla
  scrivente dal medico-legale Dr. Lalli) >pagg.18 A.F./36 R,;

===english===

• Rep.07 - Nr.1 ​​Sample of presumed blood substance taken from the floor
  in front of the door which gives access to the air space (already Rep.7)> pagg.17 AF/25 R;
• Rep.28 - Nr.2 Samples of presumed blood substance taken
  dall'interrutore light on the back wall of the environment (formerly King10/A-B)> pagg.17 A.F./59 R.;
  
  External steps of the stone staircase and areas adjacent to the house on Via della Pergola
  no.7.
• Rep.08 - No.8 Samples of presumed blood substance taken from the 1 º -3 º -4 º -5 º -
  11 º -16 º -18 º -24 º step (already Rep.1-Rep.2-Rep.3-Rep.4-Rep.5-Rep.6-Rep.7-Rep.9)
  > P.1 A.F./26 R.;
• Rep.09 - Nr.1 ​​Samples of presumed blood substance taken from the wall
  on the side to 21 º step (already Rep.6)> pagg.2 AF/28 R.;
• Rep.10 - Nr.1 ​​Samples of presumed blood substance taken from the area
  antistane the entrance door to the apartment basement (formerly Rep.10)> pagg.2
  A.F./29 R.;
• Rep.11 - Tissue paper found on the stretch of pavement (formerly Rep.10)> pagg.2
  A.F./29 R.;
• Rep.17 - Tissue paper marked with the letter "C", found on the side
  right wall of the trip that leads to the house on Via della Pergola no.7 (record of
  repertazione and seizure dated 05/11/2007)> pagg.4 AF/42 R.;
• Rep.18 - Tissue paper marked with the letter "D", found in Via
  della Pergola, at the civic nr.10 (report dated repertazione and seizure
  05/11/2007)> pagg.4 A.F./44 R,;
• Rep.19 - Tissue paper marked with the letters "DX", found in Via S.
  Antonio (Report deo descriptive surveys carried out by the Provincial Cabinet
  Scientific Police of Perugia)> pagg.7 AF/46 R;
• Rep.20 - Tissue paper marked with the letters "SX", found in Via S.
  Antonio (Report deo descriptive surveys carried out by the Provincial Cabinet
  Scientific Police of Perugia)> pagg.7 AF/48 R;
  
  Biological samples and specimens taken from the body of the victim Meredith Kercher
  Susanna Cara.
• Rep.12 - Nr.3 vaginal swabs made to the victim (personally delivered
  to the writer by the medico-legal Dr. Lalli)> P.18 AF/33 R;
• Rep.13 - Nr.3 rectal swabs made to the victim (personally delivered to the
  writing by the medico-legal Dr. Lalli)> P.18 f/36 R;

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Nazione

Yo Rolfe! Don't go too far to the pole. You may be the star witness in Florence.

The TOD may be moving again. Link.

 

[Grinder]

Anybody able to translate this:

Mafia: corte Appello Firenze rigetta richiesta boss TagliaviaFirenze, 19 giu. - (Adnkronos) - La Corte d'Assise d'Appello di Firenze ha rigettato la richiesta della difesa del boss mafioso Francesco Tagliavia che, durante l'udienza di oggi, aveva chiesto di ascoltare nuovamente i boss Giuseppe Graviano e Francesco Giuliano. Secondo la Corte, non sussistevano le condizioni per sentirli nuovamente. La prossima udienza si terra' il 3 ottobre, per la requisitoria dei pm Alessandro Crini e Giuseppe Nicolosi; sono state fissate udienza anche il 7, l'8 e il 10 ottobre.

Google:

Mafia: Appeals court rejects request boss TagliaviaFirenze Florence, June 19 - (Adnkronos) - The Court of Assizes of Appeal of Florence has rejected the request of the defense of Mafia boss Francesco Tagliavias that during today's hearing, had asked him to re-listen to boss Joseph Gravano and Francesco Giuliano. According to the Court, there had not been to hear them again. The next hearing will take place 'on October 3, for the indictment of the prosecutor Alessandro Horsehair and Joseph Nicolosi, were also fixed hearing on 7, 8 and 10 October.
(June 19, 2013 hours 17:32)

Horsehair = Crini

ETA - please tell me that this new MOF prosecutor isn't being charged with something too.

 

[Grinder]

The TOD may be moving again. Link.

I would like to see the PGP suggest independent experts that would meet their rigid standard for the various disciplines that will be needed.

I hear they are going to suggest Nikki the receptionist for DNA work and Prof. Snape for TOD.

 

[Grinder]

How about this geography lesson from an administrator not just a common member over there:

So this is to South America, not Central America (Ecuador) as had been previously mentioned? Definitely not the best time of year to go to touring in South America, and the trip is reportedly imminent. I guess they're compelled to make use of the passport while she still has one. I wonder how much in luggage-overage fees they will be paying?

I do hope they check out Brazil

The last time I was in Ecuador (so named because the Equator runs through it) it was still in South America, you know like south of Colombia which is a country not the river between Washington and Oregon. The river is spelled a little differently C-O-L-U-M-B-I-A.

Btw, it is a great time to tour SA in that it's winter down there below Ecuador and not so hot. the average hi temp in Rio in July and August is about 77 F or 25 C while the lows are 65F or 19 C.

Best time of the year and there aren't as many many flying pests.

 

[Rolfe]

Yo Rolfe! Don't go too far to the pole. You may be the star witness in Florence.

Got to the Magdalenafjord, only just under 80 degrees north. Watching ice floes break away from glaciers and float past the ship at five o'clock in the morning under the midnight sun.

Fabulous cruise.

Rolfe.

 

[anglolawyer]

Got to the Magdalenafjord, only just under 80 degrees north. Watching ice floes break away from glaciers and float past the ship at five o'clock in the morning under the midnight sun.

Fabulous cruise.

Rolfe.

Sounds great. No norovirus I hope. But seriously, TOD based on digestion ought to feature prominently. Grinder has forgotten the prosecution can also call on the guy who argues in a brilliant and learned article that she had another pizza when she got home.

 

[RandyN]

I like the way RS is attacking the case finally.

I am disappointed that AK feels no duty to assist in any way. I suppose he feels screwed while she feels she can rest on her laurels because USA would never send her back to Italy.

Raffa works tirelessly thru the internet with his site and Facebook and Twitter. Knox (besides her book) remains mute. If she wants her ridiculous case to be better known in the mainstream then she should get off her azz and get to work. Just saying...

 

[acbytesla]

I like the way RS is attacking the case finally.

I am disappointed that AK feels no duty to assist in any way. I suppose he feels screwed while she feels she can rest on her laurels because USA would never send her back to Italy.

Raffa works tirelessly thru the internet with his site and Facebook and Twitter. Knox (besides her book) remains mute. If she wants her ridiculous case to be better known in the mainstream then she should get off her azz and get to work. Just saying...

Randy,
I can understand how you might think that is what is going on. But I don't think that is fair. I don't think Amanda has "abandoned" Raffaele at all, just that she is taking a different approach to what they are about to face. Is it really better to speak out stridently against the Italian judicial system or fight this in the court? BTW, Raffaele is in the US with relatives in New York. He doesn't have to go back to Italy for the trial and can be tried in absentia as well. If they convict AK and RS..(god forbid) I would suppose that Amanda and Raffaele would be fighting together against extradition.