Looking for Skeptics

[abaddon]

Look, I offered to leave this thread alone, a few times.

No, you threatend to flounce off, but came back. I bent over backwards by downloading and installing and testing the software you are using, yet you could not bring yourself to answer a single question. You continue to use a crapware app for your spirit guests, and it truly is crapware, refuse to say if other software exhibits the same behaviour, and are generally unresponsive to questions. You will claim this is a result of your supposed three week outage, but you were doing the same beforehand, so I am not buying.

We are getting nowhere.

Is that you Sherlock? Of course not. You don't want to.

No one will send me a recording, I do keep asking. Just a file of silence.

Quite apart from the fact that we are awash with audio files here, I will send you any of my test files. I can produce a silence file from Youcam. Box has all of the audio files in it. I fail to see how your claim of no audio files is anything but avoidance

Upload it toBox.com for all to hear.

We have all heard. I can't beleive you have not noticed. It must be intentional.

Then send it to my email address and lets see what happens? I'm willing to give it a go.

I would give it a go also, but you may not like my conditions.

 

[TjW]

cheep shot

Well, that's the end of that budgie.

 

[jsfisher]

They do actually inform me of a lot, but nothing you would understand. They also provide me with names etc, places. Are you are asking if they are they psychic?

You really, really need to stop presenting us with past recordings while saying "See? Spirits!" They do not do what is needed. It has nothing to do with whether someone thinks you might be lying or just imagining things or misconfiguring something when you made some past recording. Those considerations should not / must not enter into it at all.

I am struggling to help you find a way to provide objective evidence what you are experiencing is paranormal. Fundamentally, the claim is you hear things being spoken in recordings that shouldn't have voices. You claim they are spirit voices. Maybe they are and maybe they are not the voices of spirits -- that really doesn't matter. All that matters is whether what happens has a mundane explanation.

Mundane explanations are, well, mundane. If we can rule them all, then we are left with paranormal as the only option, and that becomes very interesting indeed.

So, no, I am certainly not asking if they are psychic. I am simply asking if there is anything these spirits can communicate to you that can lead to an appropriate demonstration.

 

[jsfisher]

Oh, geez!

If just occurred to me: Since these spirits cannot see anything flaccon does not see, and I will extend that to the four other senses, then these spirits have only a miniscule view of reality. (ETA: That is not meant as a dig. Flaccon is just one out of 7,000,000,000 people on this Earth, so, yeah, the scenery through just her eyes is somewhat limited in the grand scheme of things.)

How can they possibly have a vitally important message necessary to save all of humanity if their entire perspective of the world is from what flaccon sees, hears, feels, tastes, and touches?

Care to comment on that, flaccon? Do you not see any of the contradictions that continue to mount?

 

[trustbutverify]

Top secret:

I didn't realize flaccon hadn't read my letter. I thought she was just acting like it never happened. I then went into semi-acerbic mode. I should have listened to you...

No offense; just that I've noticed this thread is a really efficient frustration generator, and thought I'd share something that seems to help mitigate that. I like reading your comments and don't want to see you suffer chronic cranial wall damage.

 

[Orphia Nay]

Not quite, I heard Mr Roberts computer change as well as his 2 silent recordings. I heard jsfishers recording was a constant drone throughout, with no interferences, but his original now has significant differences. This is fact, whether its believed or not.

Are you referring to these files?

https://app.box.com/alderbank

3B1071DC64CB32957D892675A34B58F4 VolumeNormInt.wav

3B1071DC64CB32957D892675A34B58F4 VolumeNormInt post Spirits.wav

 

[Cassidy]

Dear Tracey,

This is usually the part where a member either storms off, often getting banned on purpose, or slowly takes the time to ask questions and proceed toward an understanding of what on earth is really happening.

I am sure that I speak for the skeptics on this site (only this once) when I say we would very much prefer that you take the latter route. Here you can make friends and learn much more about the magnificence of the real world.

A world without real magic, miracles and spirits is not the cold world depicted by charlatans. It is a world full of great discoveries, indescribable beauty and love. It is just as awesome as any fantasy world, except that it’s real.

Life can and will be cruel. Indiscriminately. The good suffer. The bad have a ball. Justice is a human product. This only means our job should be to make it as pleasant for all as we can. All we have is each other.

Fantasies can make the cruel world a more welcoming, caring universe. But is that a good thing? Death sucks. Losing loved ones is an excruciating experience for all. But we move on. We move on with great memories and we move on with a new outlook.

This post may be a bit premature, but I want you to know that I find you very charming and this has been my favourite thread ever. I have appreciated your sense of humour and the way you’ve shown you can take a joke. I hope you will stay and I look forward to discussing with you other interesting topics on different threads.

For me, personally, the world makes a lot more sense since I have shed my beliefs in phenomena that have proven not to exist. I see beauty in art, and indeed in the physical world itself, in a much more glorious light. Because the world is ours. We are a part of this universe as much as the stars are. In fact we are literally made of material that was cooked up in the center of stars.

No fantasy can make it better, warts and all.

[I should leave this sort of rambling to poets, but I had this urge to tell you how I felt.]

Love,

André.

I carefully wrote out a full reply to this, and lost the lot. Is there a time-out on the site? Thank you Maurice, I will reply (good night)

 

[EHocking]

Seriously, that is what they said. No they obviously don't fear arrest, he/she was being sarcastic.

You do realise that you did not actually answer the question asked, which was,

Originally Posted by Donn
....Oh, PS: Please supply the recording with the spirit saying "Oh my god, that JREF can have us arrested, have us arrested Trace".

This is not the first time that this has been requested.

So.

Can you upload this file or not?

 

[Cassidy]

Oh, geez!

If just occurred to me: Since these spirits cannot see anything flaccon does not see, and I will extend that to the four other senses, then these spirits have only a miniscule view of reality. (ETA: That is not meant as a dig. Flaccon is just one out of 7,000,000,000 people on this Earth, so, yeah, the scenery through just her eyes is somewhat limited in the grand scheme of things.)

How can they possibly have a vitally important message necessary to save all of humanity if their entire perspective of the world is from what flaccon sees, hears, feels, tastes, and touches?

Care to comment on that, flaccon? Do you not see any of the contradictions that continue to mount?

It doesn't work like that js. Sadly, for the fear of ridicule taking precedence yet again, I'll just bid you good night.

 

[jsfisher]

It doesn't work like that js.

That is how you have described it. The spirits can only see what you see, etc.

Is that not true?

 

[Pixel42]

That is how you have described it. The spirits can only see what you see, etc.

Is that not true?

I don't think she's ever said that.

The reason the proposed test protocol which depended on the spirits identifying cards flaccon couldn't see had to be abandoned was that flaccon interpreted noises on her recordings as the spirits telling her that they considered such a test beneath them, not because they could only see what she saw.

 

[laca]

Look, I offered to leave this thread alone, a few times. We are getting nowhere. No one will send me a recording, I do keep asking. Just a file of silence. Upload it toBox.com for all to hear. Then send it to my email address and lets see what happens? I'm willing to give it a go.

You already gave it a go. jsfisher provided you with a file. You failed to objectively show that anything changed in any of the files. What will be different this time?

 

[laca]

It doesn't work like that js. Sadly, for the fear of ridicule taking precedence yet again, I'll just bid you good night.

Sorry, but you had your chance. As far as I can recall, everyone started off extremely polite and helpful. Are you surprised frustration started to build? Ridicule is an appropriate response to the ridiculous. You have been given leeway to show that you're honest in your search for the truth. It has been about anything but that. You flat-out stated on more than one occasion that there is no chance you are mistaken, even after a lot of evidence that you are in fact mistaken and absolutely no evidence that you are not.

The most important question you need to ask yourself is whether there's anyting that might convince you that there are no spirits talking to you. Unless and until you can answer that question, this whole charade is a worthless exercise in futility.

 

[Apology]

I would love to see flaccon reproduce calebprime and abaddon's experiments and listen to their sample recordings so that she can see that her "spirit voices" are reproducible artifacts that others can produce, thus making the spirit explanation far less likely. This would require her to challenge her strong belief in spirits, so I doubt that she'll do it. In case she does decide to give it a whirl, here are the two posts in which calebprime and abbadon describe their techniques for creating the effects:

I've uploaded a few files to Box to show how excessive or cheap noise-reduction introduces "chirping" artifacts.

That's the "budgie".


Original voice sample with noise and hum.
https://app.box.com/s/vmqlney1zbkfrd85r09d

Cleaned up with Izotope RX: (Fairly high-quality noise-reduction) I did this just because I'm obsessive and I could.
https://app.box.com/s/weurvajfk0xvmqoauh6p

Chirping artifacts are introduced: My attempt at butchering the sound with bad noise-reduction.
https://app.box.com/s/coo99t74urg06c6e2cat

I don't have really lousy noise-reduction, so this would take more work, but you can hear the chirps starting to emerge.

eta: It occurs to me that it might be possible to really make it chirp by convolving the sound with itself using Sound Hack. That's the next try, then I need to do some work.

eta2: The sound file massacred by convolving with itself a couple of times. Nothing but chirps and garbage.
https://app.box.com/s/8ripqbijcrve44nrh919

Hi Jack.

I ran your suggested test, but first, I must correct an error of mine. There is playback within Youcam. I didn't spot it because their is nothing to spot, no button, menu, right-clicky, nothing. I missed the obvious "Double click the created thumbnail" scenario, which launches your movie in a built-in viewer. Nobodies perfect.

My first thought was to record silence in Youcam, play it back and record again. No joy. The Youcam player opens in a modal window, so no concurrent tasks. The fallback position was record silence, playback in WMP while recording a new file in Youcam, so here we go with what I found.

It is impossible to record silence with a live mic. The best you get is effectively white noise and lots of it, coupled with some high freq elements which I found to be generated by the hum and noise of the PC itself. If flaccon thinks she can record silence, she is plain flat out wrong. At best she can record the white noise that is around everyone.

In any event I proceed to run the recorded silence through WMP to get to the next step, but paused immediately. The playback through WMP and Youcam were audibly different. Playback through Youcam was a mostly consistent white noise. Playback through WMP exhibited a low frequency harmonic...something. VLC showed the same low freq harmonic. Youcam didn't wanna. Suggests to me some codec issue perhaps.

Next step, record another while playing back the first. Basically, the harmonics simply got worse.

ETA: Good grief, reading back my post I discover I am writing the script for "The Hunt for Red October" ROFL.

 

[trustbutverify]

I don't think she's ever said that.

The reason the proposed test protocol which depended on the spirits identifying cards flaccon couldn't see had to be abandoned was that flaccon interpreted noises on her recordings as the spirits telling her that they considered such a test beneath them, not because they could only see what she saw.

I thought flaccon was informed by her father's ghost that they wouldn't cooperate after she had unsuccessfully tried a card test on her own. Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

 

[Mojo]

No one will send me a recording, I do keep asking. Just a file of silence.

I'm sure I've seen people say they have sent you files. As far as I remember you then shifted the goalposts by saying you needed them in a specific format, then shifted them again when it was pointed out that they had in fact been in that very format.

 

[Drs_Res]

It would be hard to make the claim that the spirits don't hear very well and read lips if they can't see, or only see through her eyes.

Yes I reckon they can. Before making this offer on the Forum, Flaccon PMd me to ask for information about me and I volunteered enough for the spirits to Google me quite easily.

Flaccon has invited me to phone her landline number and listen to a recording. I think I will pass on that one because what I hear would be of no interest to other thread viewers. Instead I urge you to do what Stray Cat and Squeegee suggest and post a high quality recording where others can listen as well.

I am fascinated by this project and I am ready to attend whenever you wish for the next stage. You mention Sundays – I can be there next Sunday afternoon and any other Sunday you choose.

On Sunday morning I will take part in the annual Mersey Tunnel 10K in Liverpool. I am pleased that the spirits are watching me. I don’t need them to tell me my name - I know that already - but I would be impressed if they would give my time in advance for this run. It would not be proof of anything of course but it is an easy way for them to show us their sincerity and would get this project off to a great start. Don’t tell me my time Flaccon– perhaps you could PM Pixel42 if that is OK ?

What does everyone think?

The problem with this is, they cannot see the future. It's likely that they do not use search engines. They hear bits & pieces, and lipread the rest. The can't read our thoughts either, I tested that one. The great news is, it doesn't need to be a Sunday. If it appears fair, that I do this alone with no witness to witness our meet, the day is entirely your choice. I can of course, travel to you, where there is no internet access. Or maybe we could do both places, to rule out any possible set-up here? Let me know what you think.

 

[Daylightstar]

You do realise that you did not actually answer the question asked, which was,
This is not the first time that this has been requested.

So.

Can you upload this file or not?

flaccon emailed me that file as well, the file is unrecognizable by windows, imported as raw data it is only a loud indistinct noise racket.

 

[Daylightstar]

file: "It's evident we don't belong in a circus; wma

Original file name:
"8. E.V @ 6 secs -IT'S EVIDENT WE DONT BELONG IN A CIRCUS.wmv"

Attached three zip files: .wma clip normal, .wma clip amplified, .wma clip amplified+slow down.
Each zip file containing applicable sound graph and txt file with hash for the audio file.

You be the judge.


refers to post:

..., We don't belong in a circus. I listened in with her and said to her "I doubt you will hear that sentence its too long" She replied "Yes I got that sentence too" ...

... a spirit clearly but quietly says "It's evident we don't belong in a circus" ...

^{Hilites by Daylightstar}
flaccon, do you have in your possession a file in which such a sentence can clearly (and apparently repeatedly) be heard?

If so, I'd like to hear it. Could you email that file (email address via the icon below my post count) to me?
I'll extract the audio and post it here.

 

[Daylightstar]

file: "It's evident we don't belong in a circus; mp3 version

Original file name:
"8. E.V @ 6 secs -IT'S EVIDENT WE DONT BELONG IN A CIRCUS.wmv"

Attached three zip files: .mp3 clip normal, .mp3 clip amplified, .mp3 clip amplified+slow down.
Each zip file containing applicable sound graph and txt file with hash for the audio file.

-------------------------------------------

Not a rather clear circus reference ... at all.


refers to post:

..., We don't belong in a circus. I listened in with her and said to her "I doubt you will hear that sentence its too long" She replied "Yes I got that sentence too" ...

... a spirit clearly but quietly says "It's evident we don't belong in a circus" ...

^{Hilites by Daylightstar}
flaccon, do you have in your possession a file in which such a sentence can clearly (and apparently repeatedly) be heard?

If so, I'd like to hear it. Could you email that file (email address via the icon below my post count) to me?
I'll extract the audio and post it here.