Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[RWVBWL]

Knifed because she wouldn't go All The Way?

How did they know Rudi's MO?

Without trying to restart the conversation, the police did initially think that the sex was consensual and that she had met someone the night before at a party. That's where the sex game gone bad started.

I know everyone here can't imagine Meredith agreeing to have a date or just a meetup with Rudi but I can. If they did and Rudi expected more and it turned into rage and he killed her, he might then worry that she had mentioned this to her girl friends.
<snip>

Hi Grinder,
It seems in your opinion,
that Rudi was on 1st date with Meredith, right?

Rudi says they had oral, remember, but they stopped,
as he didn't bring a condom+I guess Mez forgot about Amanda's condoms in their shared bathroom or heck, just didn't fel like goin' all the way on the 1st date...

So Rudi flew into a rage and killed Meredith?
Really?!? What a Freak!


Ya know how many dudes get shut down on a 1st date?
Do they then knife the chick to death after havin' had consenual foreplay
just because she wouldn't give it up, so to say?
Ya right...

1 more reason to test that supposed semen stain.
Maybe the results will help to uncover The Truth.

Heck, I'm a man myself, and I tell ya, after foolin' around with my girl or a girl I just started datin', and havin' had sufficfent stimulation to bust a ***,
I'm happy, stoked, mellow!

Ain't no way I'm gonna kill a chick who was cheatin' on her boyfriend,
a dude with whom I smoked spliff's with, just because she wouldn't let me ***** ** in.

My opinion only, Grinder...
Peace, RW

 

[RWVBWL]

Honey, let's clean up!

The idea that they tried to clean up evidence of themselves while at the same time leaving Rudy's is beyond absurd. Think about it. Are you going to look at one footprint and know quickly that this footprint is yours so you clean it and this other footprint is probably Rudy's so you leave it? Selectively cleaning a crime scene is beyond impossible. It's moronic. You either clean everything or you don't.

That's it.
What more can you say?!?
Well said, acbytesla!

 

[acbytesla]

Hi Grinder,
It seems in your opinion,
that Rudi was on 1st date with Meredith, right?

Rudi says they had oral, remember, but they stopped,
as he didn't bring a condom+I guess Mez forgot about Amanda's condoms in their shared bathroom or heck, just didn't fel like goin' all the way on the 1st date...

So Rudi flew into a rage and killed Meredith?
Really?!? What a Freak!


Ya know how many dudes get shut down on a 1st date?
Do they then knife the chick to death after havin' had consenual foreplay
just because she wouldn't give it up, so to say?
Ya right...

1 more reason to test that supposed semen stain.
Maybe the results will help to uncover The Truth.

Heck, I'm a man myself, and I tell ya, after foolin' around with my girl or a girl I just started datin', and havin' had sufficfent stimulation to bust a ***,
I'm happy, stoked, mellow!

Ain't no way I'm gonna kill a chick who was cheatin' on her boyfriend,
a dude with whom I smoked spliff's with, just because she wouldn't let me ***** ** in.

My opinion only, Grinder...
Peace, RW

I'm sorry, but I have to go with Grinder on this. You're probably a good looking surfer guy. Get turned down by one girl, there is always another around the corner. I don't think Rudy is as good with the ladies as you might be or even as Rudy might declare himself to be. And getting shut down could have been a major rejection for him and he might have been shut out a lot. This could have been "too much" for him. I think that scenario is more common than you would know. In fact that has "date" rape written all over it. He may not have intended to murder her. but it happened. My ex-girlfriend was raped at knife point in college in the guys dorm room and it played out pretty much exactly like that except the guy didn't kill her, only rape her. And it started out pretty much exactly like that.

Still I don't buy that Rudy had a date with Mez, because I absolutely DON'T buy the staging of the break-in.

Hang Ten.

 

[Dan O.]

The entire evidence that Rudy had a date begins and ends with "Rudy says...". And Rudy didn't even think of this himself. It was a police theory published in the papers before they had any suspects.

 

[RWVBWL]

Date Rape point understood, AC!


But still, if The Rudi climaxed,
what happened afterwards?
Mez laughed that he couldn't *** ** ** again?
So he knifed her to death?
Right...

Or maybe she had laughed at his lil' ******?
I doubt it though.

For some reason,
(maybe it's because Meredith's last text to Giacomo said, IIRC,
"that she couldn't wait to see him"), leads me to believe that Meredith was not 2-timin' G just to score a quickie, err, give some oral , to 1 of his "friends"...

My opinion only,
if we differ, oh well!
Peace, RW


PS-Hang 10? Yikes!
I ain't that OLD!
With me, it's all about gettin' rad!
My ol' nickname from some of The Venice Boyz was Radical Randy...
Ride the bike to the Venice BreakWater, the boy'z'ld say, What's up, Radical!
Yea.

See ya'all next time.
KEEP UP THE FIGHT!!!

 

[acbytesla]

Honey, let's clean up!

That's it.

The idea that they tried to clean up evidence of themselves while at the same time leaving Rudy's is beyond absurd. Think about it. Are you going to look at one footprint and know quickly that this footprint is yours so you clean it and this other footprint is probably Rudy's so you leave it? Selectively cleaning a crime scene is beyond impossible. It's moronic. You either clean everything or you don't.

That's it.
What more can you say?!?
Well said, acbytesla!

Actually I just thought about a couple of things to say...(I talk too much) But here it goes anyway. It's crime scene twister.

The object of the game is to remove all traces of yourself and your partner while all the time leaving all the evidence of third member of your little homicidal group. It's a 10 foot by ten foot room with a bed, a desk, wardrobe closet and the victim is taking up most of the space. Now there is lots of blood everywhere, so you can't get any on you and you can't leave any telltale smudges. NOW GO!!!

Do you go to your knees to wipe up that bloody footprint of yours? Is that yours or is that Rudy's? or Amanda's or Meredith's OOOOPS you lose. You left knee and handprints on the floor wiping up your shoe print..or is that Rudy's?

 

[acbytesla]

Date Rape point understood, AC!


But still, if The Rudi climaxed,
what happened afterwards?
Mez laughed that he couldn't *** ** ** again?
So he knifed her to death?
Right...

Or maybe she had laughed at his lil' ******?
I doubt it though.

For some reason,
(maybe it's because Meredith's last text to Giacomo said, IIRC,
"that she couldn't wait to see him"), leads me to believe that Meredith was not 2-timin' G just to score a quickie, err, give some oral , to 1 of his "friends"...

My opinion only,
if we differ, oh well!
Peace, RW


PS-Hang 10? Yikes!
I ain't that OLD!
With me, it's all about gettin' rad!
My ol' nickname from some of The Venice Boyz was Radical Randy...
Ride the bike to the Venice BreakWater, the boy'z'ld say, What's up, Radical!
Yea.

See ya'all next time...

Rudy climaxed afterward.. Masturbated. But then again, even though I absolutely think they should have tested the alleged semen stain, I wouldn't bet on that stain's DNA being Rudy's.....but they sure as hell should have tested it.

Sorry..I'm that old.. My best friend is an avid surfer up here in Washington. I've never gone.

 

[RWVBWL]

Naked, crime scene twister...

That's it.

Actually I just thought about a couple of things to say...(I talk too much) But here it goes anyway. It's crime scene twister.
The object of the game is to remove all traces of yourself and your partner while all the time leaving all the evidence of third member of your little homicidal group. It's a 10 foot by ten foot room with a bed, a desk, wardrobe closet and the victim is taking up most of the space. Now there is lots of blood everywhere, so you can't get any on you and you can't leave any telltale smudges. NOW GO!!!

Do you go to your knees to wipe up that bloody footprint of yours? Is that yours or is that Rudy's? or Amanda's or Meredith's OOOOPS you lose. You left knee and handprints on the floor wiping up your shoe print..or is that Rudy's?

Oh my goodness, ac!
I was gonna bail, but this post had me crackin' up!
Too funny, Thanks for the laugh, hahaha!


I suppose in guilter land that those folks think Amanda+Raff cleaned up evidence of themselves while butt-naked, right?
As they didn't wanna get any blood onto their clothes, coo-rect?


So how'd they do it without smearin' the wipe-down as this pix from PS shows?:



Did Raf,
with them Family Jewels(*) danglin' away,
do the 1st wipe-down + then "Foxy Knoxy", all dressed up in her b-day suit,
seductively dip her sponge into the clean water as she winked at Raff before she'd wipe up the residue+get rid of the smear?
Hmmmm...

L8, RW


(*)-http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=family%20jewels

PS-It's rainin' in L.A.,
IN JULY, right now!
Wow, coolio...
See ya

 

[acbytesla]

Oh my goodness, ac!
I was gonna bail, but this post had me crackin' up!
Too funny, Thanks for the laugh, hahaha!

I suppose in guilter land that those folks think Amanda+Raff cleaned up evidence of themselves while butt-naked, right?
As they didn't wanna get any blood onto their clothes, coo-rect?

So how'd they do it without smearin' the wipe-down as this pix from PS shows?:
[qimg]http://imageshack.us/a/img827/320/f6en.jpg[/qimg]

Did Raf,
with them Family Jewels(*) danglin' away,
do the 1st wipe-down + then "Foxy Knoxy", all dressed up in her b-day suit,
seductively dip her sponge into the clean water as she winked at Raff before she'd wipe up the residue+get rid of the smear?
Hmmmm...

L8, RW


(*)-http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=family%20jewels

PS-It's rainin' in L.A.,
IN JULY, right now!
Wow, coolio...
See ya

You definitely have the absurdity of this scenario down. It's a little overcast in Sea Town right now, but it's been a gorgeous summer.

Come up here and my buddy will take you surfing at the dump...Well maybe, this guy studies the ocean and weather like we do studying this case. And he plans his weekends by the swells, Long Beach, Westport, The Dump...etc.

I'll watch from the beach with a brew in my hand.

Be Coool.

 

[anglolawyer]

Destroying their copy of the inventory would not stop the police checking the landlord's copy. Another weak PIP point, it seems to me, is the knife doesn't match all the wounds or fit the print on the bed. So what? Why can't there be two knives? A better point is Amanda's in WTBH p.336. She records Torre's evidence of the depth of the main wound at 3.149 inches and that the other two were the same depth to the nearest thousandth of an inch. Torre brought in to court a foam bust and a replica of the knife to demonstrate his point.

I have some difficulty with this level of precision but WTH if that's the evidence, what are the chances of one big knife being used to make a wound of exactly the same depth as two wounds made by a small one? Maybe Math on Trial should have a chapter on this in the 2nd edition.

 

[RandyN]

I here I thought you already were.



I just didn't think it was funny so I hoped it wasn't an attempt at humor.
Sorry dont have time to read back about this post. I think your assertion that this knife is a possible murder weapon and it is therefore plausible to have returned it to the utensil drawer because it was on the landlords inventory list is silly and baseless. First, it is a common and cheap knife easily replaceable so that even if there was an inventory list (which I am still waiting to see....not a note that mentions an inventory list) since somewhere there is also suppose to be evidence of "glass on top"

As for what you think is funny or not? I could care less what you think is funny. To contend it would be hard to hide a knife is silly. Drive it out to Lake Trasimeno (better? dont care anyway) and dump it there. Go to a nearby wooded area and dig a small knife sized hole and place the knife in it...then cover it with the newly fallen leaves...

Its silly and pointless to argue that it makes sense to keep the murder weapon in the place where one keeps his food prep utensils unless you detect some sort of psycho evidence...like finding a head in the freezer or fingers in a pickle jar.

Look I understand you have a great deal of knowledge about the case...the hyoid bone reference to Anglo a while back told me you knew your stuff...and have for quite some time. But then you buy into some of the stupidest prosecution excuses when they are not logical or even plausible...Rudy didnt act alone is another of your strange fact less ideas.





The assertion that returning the knife to it's place is not believable is the joke. Further it is bad tactics to make statements that don't hold up. I have said a thousand times over the 6 years that the knife evidence is bunk But making an assertion that no one would return it to the drawer weakens the point because it's not true. There is no easy place to dispose of it and just imagine the police finding it even if clean.

No the joke is that thinking someone would return a murder weapon to the kitchen drawer is not just odd but also would take a special kind of sicko...something beyond a normal murderer ....something like a Jeffery Dahmer...is that your contention? What is your proof.

Once more ...it is a simple matter to hide and they had plenty of time to dispose of the knife...if it was so difficult then why have they not found Guedes knife? Because he hid it and it was easy to do so! Returning the knife to the drawer doesnt affect the bunk that that evidence provides. First it is not compatible with the wounds, second there is no evidence that Knox transported this knife ever! Evidence,facts, witnesses, ...nothing! And your ranting about the normalcy of storing a possible murder weapon in the utensil drawer only gives a crazy false piece of evidence some sort of legitimacy...kinda like it was awful tough to climb that Eiger level wall up to Filomenas window.(hope that doesn't offend you?)

No, it wouldn't be equating them to the Manson family, more hyperbole. You really think that it is impossible to have been the murder weapon? Impossible?

Bull crap...it equates them not to Mansons...more like Dahmer who ate his victims. If you think your hyperbole is sound then produce some evidence that AK and RS are Dahmer like.

Yes I think it is impossible to have been the murder weapon. And there is abundant evidence against it being any such thing. Not least of which is the fact that the stabs were stopped short of penetrating the whole neck for one, next the bruise marks from what would be called the hilt or handle transition proves it impossible to be this knife, next it DOES NOT MATCH the imprint the real murder weapon made on the bed sheet in the victims blood BTW. Plus its just the damn stupidest police theory out of a thousand other stupid Perugia police theories. But people like you give it traction rather than laughing it off or better yet going with the known evidence and facts that say it is BS police speculation and in fact quite illogical and even insane to contort the thought process in order to make this knife work.

How do you like me now? Wait...dont care!

 

[acbytesla]

Destroying their copy of the inventory would not stop the police checking the landlord's copy. Another weak PIP point, it seems to me, is the knife doesn't match all the wounds or fit the print on the bed. So what? Why can't there be two knives? A better point is Amanda's in WTBH p.336. She records Torre's evidence of the depth of the main wound at 3.149 inches and that the other two were the same depth to the nearest thousandth of an inch. Torre brought in to court a foam bust and a replica of the knife to demonstrate his point.

I have some difficulty with this level of precision but WTH if that's the evidence, what are the chances of one big knife being used to make a wound of exactly the same depth as two wounds made by a small one? Maybe Math on Trial should have a chapter on this in the 2nd edition.

Maybe the police would check with the landlord about an inventory of the knives... I don't really think so but I've been wrong before..just my guess.

As for why can't there be two knives? How many stabbings are you familiar with where there were two knives? Even when there were multiple assailants? From my perspective, the only reason there would be two knives is if there was something premeditated going on. 2 men burglarizing a home both carrying knives or a premeditated murder with 2 people involved.

The only reason that Amanda would have carried that big kitchen knife in her bag back to the cottage would have been to for a premeditated murder. And I find that to be impossible.

There is NO reason that Amanda or Raffaele would want to kill Meredith. NONE, even Massei admitted this.

The guilters and the ISC says it's important to look at the case osmotically. But they don't. If we add all the illogical factors involved this is beyond absurd.

 

[Mary_H]

Did Raf,
with them Family Jewels(*) danglin' away,
do the 1st wipe-down + then "Foxy Knoxy", all dressed up in her b-day suit,
seductively dip her sponge into the clean water as she winked at Raff before she'd wipe up the residue+get rid of the smear?
Hmmmm...

L8, RW

!!!

 

[anglolawyer]

Maybe the police would check with the landlord about an inventory of the knives... I don't really think so but I've been wrong before..just my guess.

As for why can't there be two knives? How many stabbings are you familiar with where there were two knives? Even when there were multiple assailants? From my perspective, the only reason there would be two knives is if there was something premeditated going on. 2 men burglarizing a home both carrying knives or a premeditated murder with 2 people involved.

The only reason that Amanda would have carried that big kitchen knife in her bag back to the cottage would have been to for a premeditated murder. And I find that to be impossible.

There is NO reason that Amanda or Raffaele would want to kill Meredith. NONE, even Massei admitted this.

The guilters and the ISC says it's important to look at the case osmotically. But they don't. If we add all the illogical factors involved this is beyond absurd.

You seem to have trouble focusing on one point at a time. Yes, I agree, the whole knife thing is absurd and I agree it's not the murder weapon but some of the arguments are weaker than others. If they used it to kill (so take that as given, right?) the suggestion is it's not all that difficult to imagine them cleaning it and returning it to the drawer and being worried that it might be noticed to be missing, should any suspicion fall on them, could well be among the reasons.

As for the use of two (or more) knives, I cite David Rizzio, stabbed more than 50 times by multiple attackers back in 1566.

 

[Mary_H]

delete

 

[acbytesla]

You seem to have trouble focusing on one point at a time. Yes, I agree, the whole knife thing is absurd and I agree it's not the murder weapon but some of the arguments are weaker than others. If they used it to kill (so take that as given, right?) the suggestion is it's not all that difficult to imagine them cleaning it and returning it to the drawer and being worried that it might be noticed to be missing, should any suspicion fall on them, could well be among the reasons.

As for the use of two (or more) knives, I cite David Rizzio, stabbed more than 50 times by multiple attackers back in 1566.

Why don't you just say Julius Ceaser? At least it's an Italian case.

 

[Mary_H]

You seem to have trouble focusing on one point at a time. Yes, I agree, the whole knife thing is absurd and I agree it's not the murder weapon but some of the arguments are weaker than others. If they used it to kill (so take that as given, right?) the suggestion is it's not all that difficult to imagine them cleaning it and returning it to the drawer and being worried that it might be noticed to be missing, should any suspicion fall on them, could well be among the reasons.

As for the use of two (or more) knives, I cite David Rizzio, stabbed more than 50 times by multiple attackers back in 1566.

When you claim that PIP arguments are weak, you put the onus on the defendant to prove innocence. The prosecution, much like yourself , seems to think they don't have to prove things, they just have to make allegations, and if the defendants can't disprove the allegations, they must be true.

In light of the way the knife was discovered, to even consider it as a possible piece of evidence is to pay the investigators much more respect than they deserve. It would not be accepted in any sane court in the civilized world.

 

[anglolawyer]

Why don't you just say Julius Ceaser? At least it's an Italian case.

I wanted something contemporary.

 

[anglolawyer]

When you claim that PIP arguments are weak, you put the onus on the defendant to prove innocence. The prosecution, much like yourself , seems to think they don't have to prove things, they just have to make allegations, and if the defendants can't disprove the allegations, they must be true.

Not at all. Some forensic points are better than others, that's all. There are monster reasons why the knife is not the murder weapon and there are some not so good ones. What do you want, that someone makes a weak point and everyone else claps and cheers? Harsh reality intrudes on that idea.

In light of the way the knife was discovered, to even consider it as a possible piece of evidence is to pay the investigators much more respect than they deserve. It would not be accepted in any sane court in the civilized world.

And yet that is how it has been treated in all the hearings so far, as a serious piece of evidence, and by both prosecution and defence. Don't get me wrong, I am on the extreme wing of the party in believing the knife is the product of corruption, but that's a hard and risky case to make and if there is a bunch of good points short of that that knock the knife out then great, just winnow out the lousy ones, like Hellman's about the improbability of them using the knife to cut bread or acbytesla's idea that no one was ever killed with two knives before.

 

[acbytesla]

I wanted something contemporary.

LOL... Very...very funny.