Looking for Skeptics

[Cassidy]

There has been a file uploaded wrongly titled "Wimbledon" The file was originally titled "Evidence" This new title has been placed on the wrong file.

The file was originally titled "Meeting with the Reverend C"

I have opened a Box account. I am going to upload to there.
I don't manipulate wires btw. I prefer to record total silence. Alderbank uploaded his silent file to his Box account, claiming it had not altered, and that it was still silent all the way through, and of course it was. Alderbank hasn't sent me this file via email for me to run it through this machine, I have received no files from Alderbank
It goes to show that if Alderbank can upload a silent recording and it still remain silent after uploading (no interferences at all) jsfisher's should have remained unchanged

It does appear that no matter what these spirits are showing me lately, altering files, uploading clear words, altering machines, it isn't proof enough. I really do need to bow out from here, and stop wasting people's time.

 

[Cassidy]

Marplots, sorry I cannot find the thread to reply back to you. I stick to the lady bug, I don't like spiders.

 

[Recovering Agnostic]

It goes to show that if Alderbank can upload a silent recording and it still remain silent after uploading (no interferences at all) jsfisher's should have remained unchanged

I'm not entirely clear what you're saying here. It appears that you're trying to draw some sort of conclusion from your belief that certain files have changed, while others haven't. I think you may be on the right lines, but not in the way you think.

If you can provide any evidence that any file has changed in any way, that would be a data point and worthy of investigation. Otherwise, your belief that something has changed would not only be unevidenced, but more support for the pareidolia hypothesis.

 

[Daylightstar]

You are a busy GP who has a patient who sees the supernatural everywhere, and explains all sorts of everyday occurrences by it. Her latest imaginary experience has resulted in an improvement in her (obviously psychosomatic) physical symptoms, and you would like to preserve this placebo effect. There's nothing you can do to help the patient directly because there's nothing physically wrong with her. The patient believes she is being directed to bring this latest supernatural experience to the attention of the church, and wants you to write an introductory letter to her bishop. What would you do?

That's a valid question, however, I'd need to see all the redacted parts to be able to say if I'd have done the same thing the GP in question did.

 

[Daylightstar]

...
It does appear that no matter what these spirits are showing me lately, altering files, uploading clear words, altering machines, it isn't proof enough. I really do need to bow out from here, and stop wasting people's time.

You have provided no evidence of files having changed/spirits uploading clear words, none whatsoever.

Have you provided the recording with the purported clear circus reference yet?

 

[Pixel42]

It does appear that no matter what these spirits are showing me lately, altering files, uploading clear words, altering machines, it isn't proof enough.

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Nothing you list here has (yet?) been demonstrated to have occurred. We're still waiting for evidence, let alone proof.

I really do need to bow out from here, and stop wasting people's time.

We've explained from the beginning that, whilst everything you've shared with us can be explained by pareidolia, only proper testing will establish what is going on here for certain. You still have the option of working with us to produce a test protocol and carry it out. If you choose not to then there's nothing more we can do.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm not entirely clear what you're saying here. It appears that you're trying to draw some sort of conclusion from your belief that certain files have changed, while others haven't. I think you may be on the right lines, but not in the way you think.

If you can provide any evidence that any file has changed in any way, that would be a data point and worthy of investigation. Otherwise, your belief that something has changed would not only be unevidenced, but more support for the pareidolia hypothesis.

If one person can upload/transfer a silent recorded file without it being altered with interferences after upload, Should jsfisher's silent recording also not have remained silent after uploading? Why was there a significant alteration at 21 seconds? (VolNormInt)

Mr Roberts files alter, as does Mr Bulgers.

I can only provide this new found evidence (again) if a kind member would generate a 20 second recording (WMV - normal volume) send it to another member so both members are sure that there are no background noises present. Then if the member sends me the file, I can see if it will alter in the way others have altered.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Nothing you list here has (yet?) been demonstrated to have occurred. We're still waiting for evidence, let alone proof.


We've explained from the beginning that, whilst everything you've shared with us can be explained by pareidolia, only proper testing will establish what is going on here for certain. You still have the option of working with us to produce a test protocol and carry it out. If you choose not to then there's nothing more we can do.

I was working on the protocol suggested but it somehow got debunked before set up. Thank u for you help though, and your theories.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It does appear that no matter what these spirits are showing me lately, altering files, uploading clear words, altering machines, it isn't proof enough. I really do need to bow out from here, and stop wasting people's time.

That is not how it appears to me.

Firstly your claims that files and machines have been altered hasn't been accompanied by any actual evidence that this has really happened. So sadly, no, that claim is just a claim and isn't proof of anything.

You haven't uploaded any "clear words" that I am aware of. Even the latest file which has been posted up, which contains the sounds of real people chatting as well as a budgie chirping, does not contain any clear words as the recording quality is so poor.

You do not need to bow out of here. But you really ought to stop wasting everyone's time.

Please stop thinking that posting stuff you think sounds like spirit voices will convince anyone. That is not proof. It can never be proof. But proof can be got, and it can be got very simply. You've had it explained over and over what sort of thing would be proof. We can explain again if you think it might help.

 

[Cassidy]

That's a valid question, however, I'd need to see all the redacted parts to be able to say if I'd have done the same thing the GP in question did.

The letter meant little, but poster requested I upload it anyway. If one can see that the letter contains certain written facts, ie; "Tracey HAS been haunted for 20 years or so.." rather than "Tracey CLAIMS/BELIEVES/THINKS etc, to have been haunted for 20 years or so.."

PS I will ask the GP if he is using a placebo effect, but with the evidence he has witnessed so far, I doubt you are correct. It's a good theory non-the-less.

 

[pakeha]

You are a busy GP who has a patient who sees the supernatural everywhere, and explains all sorts of everyday occurrences by it. Her latest imaginary experience has resulted in an improvement in her (obviously psychosomatic) physical symptoms, and you would like to preserve this placebo effect. There's nothing you can do to help the patient directly because there's nothing physically wrong with her. The patient believes she is being directed to bring this latest supernatural experience to the attention of the church, and wants you to write an introductory letter to her bishop. What would you do?

As a busy GP, I'd know a placebo effect has a limited life-span.
Unless I was simply washing my hands of a tiresome patient and wanting to score one on the bishop, in which case the tongue-in-cheek letter, I'd refer the patient to the most appropriate specialist.

...It does appear that no matter what these spirits are showing me lately, altering files, uploading clear words, altering machines, it isn't proof enough. I really do need to bow out from here, and stop wasting people's time.

I'd like to hear a file with one of those clear, complete sentences, flaccon.

Tried that weeks ago. It was completely ignored, like so much else.

Never mind, Pixel. Sooner or later it'll have an effect, if only on people who know the lady and mention it yet again.

Here's the Songs of Praise again, for anyone who missed it earlier

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I was working on the protocol suggested but it somehow got debunked before set up.

That is not my recollection of what happened.

The suggested protocol was that the spirits would try to tell you something you did not already know (perhaps the identity of a playing card) and you would try to glean what it was.

That did not get 'debunked'. You said that the spirits had given you a message which you inferred to mean they would not cooperate in such a test.

Isn't that what really happened?

 

[tuxcat]

Flaccon can you copy and paste this into a text editor. Once you have filled it out can you please copy and paste it into a reply. Thanks!

My claim is:



I can test my claim by doing this:



I can rule out paredolia by doing this:



I can rule out hallucinations by doing this:



I know I will have been successful because:

 

[Cassidy]

That is not how it appears to me.

Firstly your claims that files and machines have been altered hasn't been accompanied by any actual evidence that this has really happened. So sadly, no, that claim is just a claim and isn't proof of anything.

You haven't uploaded any "clear words" that I am aware of. Even the latest file which has been posted up, which contains the sounds of real people chatting as well as a budgie chirping, does not contain any clear words as the recording quality is so poor.

You do not need to bow out of here. But you really ought to stop wasting everyone's time.

Please stop thinking that posting stuff you think sounds like spirit voices will convince anyone. That is not proof. It can never be proof. But proof can be got, and it can be got very simply. You've had it explained over and over what sort of thing would be proof. We can explain again if you think it might help.

If their words are not enough, and their ability to transfer themselves, and the ability to alter files is not enough, simply because they don't play earth games (their words not mine) then yes I agree, lets move on to other threads.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... the letter contains certain written facts, ie; "Tracey HAS been haunted for 20 years or so.." rather than "Tracey CLAIMS/BELIEVES/THINKS etc, to have been haunted for 20 years or so.."

Do not assume that your GP meant you have been literally haunted. It's an unfortunately ambiguous term, perhaps deliberately chosen for that reason. I take "haunted" to mean you have been anguished, belaboured or stricken by oppressive thoughts, not chased around by Casper the friendly ghost.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

If their words are not enough...

Their words are enough if you prove the words exist.


Would you like assistance in finding a way to prove the words exist?

 

[chillzero]

It does appear that no matter what these spirits are showing me lately, altering files, uploading clear words, altering machines, it isn't proof enough. I really do need to bow out from here, and stop wasting people's time.

Flaccon, please understand this. The only way you will be wasting our time is if you have no honest intention to engage with the suggestions and explanations provided, and simply intend to yank our chains. This site exists for various purposes, and one of those is to reach people like yourself.

Years ago I came here intending to prove my claim that I was psychic, and a healer, and I received some disdain, some good natured (and some not so good natured) teasing, and some cynicism. I also received some advice about how to test the possibilities of non-paranormal explanations for my abilities. I am 100% grateful for the complete change around in my life instigated by this forum, and am able to live a much more fulfilled life than I did when I thought I was able to determine all kinds of things about people and the world through paranormal means.

It's not an easy journey, and can feel incredibly lonely. I found it hard to think about things that suddenly made me feel that I must have looked incredibly foolish to other people. However, what would be more foolish, would be to ignore rationality, ignore tested and proven things that have certain cause and effects, and to continue on the path I was on. It took a while, but I realised it made more sense to realise when the tide of evidence from other people was stronger and higher than my own evidence.

Don't leave - not if you have an honest desire to examine and understand what might be happening. You need to be open though, and prepared to set aside some long held perspectives - weight them up against information provided here. You may come out on top - I am not saying you are necessarily wrong, and we're right. There may actually be something paranormal here that we don't understand, but you won't help anyone else to arrive at that conclusion if you don't fully take on board the tests people are trying to help you set up. If you don't understand something - say so, and we'll help. There are clear methodologies to help with this kind of thing, and several experts here. Use them - you won't find many places offering that kind of time, attention and expertise for free. Be open to where this examination may take you.

 

[Pixel42]

If their words are not enough, and their ability to transfer themselves, and the ability to alter files is not enough, simply because they don't play earth games (their words not mine) then yes I agree, lets move on to other threads.

Any of these things would be enough if they were shown to have actually occurred. Just claiming that they have occurred when we can all see that no evidence of them has been offered, and the files we have seen demonstrate nothing but pareidolia, is certainly a waste of time.

 

[Daylightstar]

The letter meant little, but poster requested I upload it anyway. If one can see that the letter contains certain written facts, ie; "Tracey HAS been haunted for 20 years or so.." rather than "Tracey CLAIMS/BELIEVES/THINKS etc, to have been haunted for 20 years or so.."

PS I will ask the GP if he is using a placebo effect, but with the evidence he has witnessed so far, I doubt you are correct. It's a good theory non-the-less.

Why don't you simply post the full letter, without redactions in the body of this letter?!

How about the file with the purported clear circus reference, flaccon?

 

[Cassidy]

Flaccon can you copy and paste this into a text editor. Once you have filled it out can you please copy and paste it into a reply. Thanks!

My claim is: Seriously. I am here to figure out a proper claim. My only original claim was that I have contact with the spirit world, and I speak with my deceased Father, as well as others, including those who are still living. (or words to that effect)

The spirits claim I have mystic ability (special fingers, a gift from God) I cannot that claim such unusual claim, without knowing fully what it means. I can claim that files have been altered, as so have other machines by my playing their silence through this machine.



I can test my claim by doing this: Having a thorough investigation. I'm really not here to collect prizes or create pathetic woo moments. I can test my claim by finding members who are willing to trust a little, and co operate in the correct manner. A protocol should be discussed on the lines of 2 members here, each sending each other a silent file (WMV - Volume normal) Each member listen and report any background noises before sending me these files. I will play them through this machine and we check for differences. The files should remain as silent as Alderbanks did after his personal upload.



I can rule out paredolia by doing this: Gathering witnesses to the voices belonging to my Father and my sister, and voices of the living, my sister, myself and Mr Bulger's. However, I am informed that nothing rules out paredolia.



I can rule out hallucinations by doing this: Audio or visual? I don't and have never mentioned visual hallucinations, so I assume you mean audio. I can rule this out by searching out the witnesses in the Police dept, who heard a man chant at the top of his voice for 72 hours before breaking free of his cell. I can rule out hallucinations because I have enough evidence, documented and collected over the past 20 years.



I know I will have been successful because:

I know it's not paredolia, nor am I deluded, by anything.