Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[yimyammer]

What's interesting is the letter's appearance now, a year and half after it was sent. Has it just come to the Sollecitos' notice or have they elected to publish it now, signalling a new strategy designed to paint the prosecution science as grossly incompetent or worse? Why would there be someone in Stefanoni's lab wanting to discredit the work done there? This surely goes on the same pile as Napoleone's suspension for abusing her office to access information about her ex..

Surely this is the work of the massive Knox PR campaign?

 

[yimyammer]

UNBELIEVABLE!! In the US, you would be arrested for breaking and entering and suspicion of burglary and receiving stolen goods.

Ditto, I find his clarification bewildering, smh......

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>What's interesting is the letter's appearance now, a year and half after it was sent. Has it just come to the Sollecitos' notice or have they elected to publish it now, signalling a new strategy designed to paint the prosecution science as grossly incompetent or worse? Why would there be someone in Stefanoni's lab wanting to discredit the work done there? This surely goes on the same pile as Napoleone's suspension for abusing her office to access information about her ex.

ETA if only 'the gloves we must not waste them' part is true doesn't that shatter the whole case? One would expect a major enquiry to result from this exposure and perhaps a review of all the cases handled by that lab.

Surely this is the work of the massive Knox PR campaign?

I have a sense the members of ILE are not as big on "smoking guns" as we here in the modern world. All manner of evidence in copious amounts has revealed over and over their incompetence, their defiance of laws and legal procedures, their astounding inability to think logically. None of it has had an effect. They just ignore it and go on their merry ways.

Point of interest: "DR DR rather old" is Vecchiotti. Great lyric.

 

[RandyN]

Just reminding myself what Burleigh wrote, the law office burglar used a first floor window grill to climb up, just like the one beneath F's window. The old lady whose apartment was burned said she used to see Rudy, whom she knew, outside his apartment on his cell phone. I thought we were always told he didn't have one. Both times the burglar made himself at home. The fire was caused by leaving a cloth over a lamp. The dates are interesting too:

13 Oct law office (laptop, mobile, portable printer, USB sticks stolen)
23 Oct old lady burglary (lady's gold watch stolen)
27 Oct Milan school (lady's gold watch, lawyer's laptop and mobile recovered)
01 Nov lone wolf burglary and murder.

One date is missing here. The nursery school was robbed twice. The first time several thousand Euros were taken. What are the chances that was also RG? And he returned to see if they were stupid enough to keep more cash there (they were not) That story is somewhere. and should have a date on it.

 

[JREF2010]

Just reminding myself what Burleigh wrote, the law office burglar used a first floor window grill to climb up, just like the one beneath F's window. The old lady whose apartment was burned said she used to see Rudy, whom she knew, outside his apartment on his cell phone. I thought we were always told he didn't have one. Both times the burglar made himself at home. The fire was caused by leaving a cloth over a lamp. The dates are interesting too:

13 Oct law office (laptop, mobile, portable printer, USB sticks stolen)
23 Oct old lady burglary (lady's gold watch stolen)
27 Oct Milan school (lady's gold watch, lawyer's laptop and mobile recovered)
01 Nov lone wolf burglary and murder.

I remember asking Frank Sfarzo, if there were records of all the burglaries that included climbing a wall, in Perugia and surrounding communities.
Judge Micheli seemed to think it was common for a burglar to climb up.
This would surely shut the prosecution up about how impossible it is.

Burleighs list leaves out the man who confronted Rudy while Rudy was inside the apartment. Also the Milan video she states "stolen keys" too, which is interesting as Merediths keys were also stolen.
And the fact the Milan shows Rudy performing the crime alone = Lone Wolf. Theres a trend fact.

 

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by anglolawyer
Just reminding myself what Burleigh wrote, the law office burglar used a first floor window grill to climb up, just like the one beneath F's window. The old lady whose apartment was burned said she used to see Rudy, whom she knew, outside his apartment on his cell phone. I thought we were always told he didn't have one. Both times the burglar made himself at home. The fire was caused by leaving a cloth over a lamp. The dates are interesting too:

13 Oct law office (laptop, mobile, portable printer, USB sticks stolen)
23 Oct old lady burglary (lady's gold watch stolen)
27 Oct Milan school (lady's gold watch, lawyer's laptop and mobile recovered)
01 Nov lone wolf burglary and murder.
One date is missing here. The nursery school was robbed twice. The first time several thousand Euros were taken. What are the chances that was also RG? And he returned to see if they were stupid enough to keep more cash there (they were not) That story is somewhere. and should have a date on it.

Actually another date is missing too. The break in at Christian Tremantano.

 

[anglolawyer]

No, you still don't understand the law. You can't have a 48h fermo, just like that. When there is a fermo, a magistrate must be immediately called. Not after 48h. The law says "with no delay". The 48h is a maximum limit, not an option.
There is no charge - and there can't be a police bail - police simply doesn't have that powers, a magistrate won't issue a charge but a charge in any event has nothing to do with arrest; what you need is an issue of cautionary custody, which is simply not going to be agreed to by any judge on a possible charge of theft. Really, you have no chance. You don't have a clue of how things work. It's very funny this strange resisting to believe this legal truth, which is just obvious to any Italian.

Look, you may read a story from a local newspaper, about a man who was caught in flagrante while stealing a bicicle - helping himself with a large iron cutter - he was soptted by an assessor of the city government who called the police. Because called in flagrante, the public minister validated the police arrest. After a few hours he was free again. The following day he was caught again on stealing furhter two bicicles. Was he arrested? No. This time, not even for an hour. The police didn't see him in the exact moment while he was stealing them, so they only filed the minutes for possesssion of stolen items. He walked free, to stal other bicicles. The police called the immigrant office, who are those who can actually will handle the problem: they will expel him as an illegal immigrant, given that he is from Morocco. The forced expulsion is the "only legal procedure" capable of preventing him from stealing an indefinite number of bicicles.

http://lanuovaferrara.gelocal.it/cronaca/2013/06/25/news/il-bis-del-ladro-di-biciclette-appena-libero-ruba-ancora-1.7318425

You should read my posts more carefully and be less selective in the ones you answer. Tell us about the lady's gold watch. What investigations were pursued? None, right? I guess arson is only taken seriously if you're caught lighting the match. Why were these matters not looked into after Guede was taken into custody for murder? Maybe because Rudy's burgeoning career as a burglar did not fit so well with Mignini's one black for another swap. Were any stories about Rudy's crimes leaked to the press by the police? I bet Grinder's yacht they weren't.

 

[anglolawyer]

Actually another date is missing too. The break in at Christian Tremantano.

I left it out on purpose as I was focusing on the Milan school arrest. The date was 27 Sep and the earlier Milan school break-in was 08 Oct.

 

[anglolawyer]

I remember asking Frank Sfarzo, if there were records of all the burglaries that included climbing a wall, in Perugia and surrounding communities.
Judge Micheli seemed to think it was common for a burglar to climb up.
This would surely shut the prosecution up about how impossible it is.

Burleighs list leaves out the man who confronted Rudy while Rudy was inside the apartment. Also the Milan video she states "stolen keys" too, which is interesting as Merediths keys were also stolen.
And the fact the Milan shows Rudy performing the crime alone = Lone Wolf. Theres a trend fact.

Her list is complete. It's me who left stuff out.

 

[yimyammer]

Charlie, FYI, you've been discussed at another forum:

I have also suspected recently that he might be Jim Loving who posts as Charlie Wilkes. He is a guy who was institutionalized and lives in a trailer park in Chicago. He has a direct connection to the family and is major shill. I posted his picture a few days back and 239 didn't react so that decreases the chances of that.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

So, is it possible for a legal resident to make a living out of stealing things with no repercussion whatsoever?

In the US, most small-time burglars pretty much get away with it unless they are caught red-handed. People whose homes have been burglarized are often shocked to find the cops will do nothing about it, even when they have a pretty good idea who the culprit might be. Burglary investigations are complicated and time-consuming relative to the severity of the crime.

The cops eventually get around to dealing with people who are linked to a whole string of burglaries.

When Guede was arrested in Milan, the cops confiscated his stolen property and sent him on his way. I bet they'd have done the same thing in the US unless he had prior convictions.

So, I don't think it's fair to say that Guede would have been in jail if the police were doing their job. But Guede's history is significant because of what it says about his character and MO.

 

[Mary_H]

Ditto, I find his clarification bewildering, smh......

I actually don't have a problem with what Machiavelli has described as the procedures involving petty crimes. I think most seasoned police officers worldwide would just as soon avoid as much paperwork as they possibly can. And we're talking about Italy, where everything shuts down for three hours a day anyway.

Italian cops are just like American cops -- they don't want the boring cases, they want the exciting ones. We have plenty of cops in Seattle who are champing at the bit to shoot somebody, and they often do.

Anybody here whose house or car gets broken into is usually told there is nothing anyone can do about getting their stuff back. The police won't look for the burglars, that's for sure. They do enjoy the in flagrante delicto ones, though, because then they get to put their knees in people's backs. And Seattle cops have 3 more hours a day to fill than Italians.

Who knows, Italians may look at theft with the same attitude they seem to have about lying.

In Germany a new patent of a special machine made a sensation. It catches thieves in only five minutes. Installed in the USA, it allowed 1000 thieves to be caught in five minutes, while in Japan 6000 thieves were nabbed in five minutes. Installed in Italy, it was stolen in five minutes.

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/flash/humor

 

[Mary_H]

Charlie, FYI, you've been discussed at another forum:

I have also suspected recently that he might be Jim Loving who posts as Charlie Wilkes.

Whoa. Last I heard, he had changed his name to McLovin'.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Charlie, FYI, you've been discussed at another forum:

Amusing.

 

[Antony]

The "arrest" of a person for carrying a knife - if ever occurs - would last something three hours, then any normal person would be free. Just like it occurred to Guede.
It is illegal to carry a knife without justified reasons in public places.

Cite Italian law, please. In the UK it is legal to carry a folding knife with a blade of less than 3 inches (7.5cm), and I think it implausible that this is not the case in other EU countries including Italy.

Guede was carrying a knife, btw; he had a knife in his rucksack (which belonged to the kitchen) but he was not carrying anything. To carry an object you need to take it to go somwhere. Now, I guess Guede was questioned about the knife, but it's obvious there is no evidence Guede was going somewhere carrying the knife with him.

This is such obvious nonsense that it's a wonder to me you can type it without showing signs of mirth. Guede supposedly can't be arrested when found in a place he has no lawful reason to be, in possession of a knife he has no reasonable justification for having; yet a pocket knife is a pretext for arresting Raffaele when he has voluntarily come to the police station at the request of the police?

You are painting a picture of a police state, where the police can act entirely on their own whims without any restraint of law. Of course this is what this case has looked like from the beginning, to those of us without the bias towards Amanda and Raff's accusers displayed by you and the rest of the PGP.

 

[Mary_H]

This one has a little something for everybody

The results of a poll made by United Nations came out. The question was: "Please, tell us honestly what is your opinion about the abundance vs. scarcity of food in the rest of the world." The results were as follows:

• The Europeans did not understand what was meant by "scarcity."
• The Africans did not understand "abundance."
• The Americans asked the meaning of the "rest of the world."
• The Chinese, puzzled, asked for an explanation of "opinion."
• Meanwhile, in the Italian Parliament, they are still debating the meaning of "honestly."

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/flash/jokes.asp

 

[yimyammer]

Amusing.

The case that keeps on giving, eh? (If you want the link to the site PM me)

 

[Dan O.]

Can you imagine if the pilots came out 1 year later and told a different story?


That's what some court in Italy wants me to believe here in this horrible murder case we discuss.

That the store owner who was 1st questioned by the police within days of a bloody murder+did not see Amanda Knox in his store soon afterwards,
A YEAR LATER, comes forward at the behest of some newspaper journalist + says that he did,
and then gives the police a very detailed description.

Right...

What you ought to do is read up on the process of inducing false memories. There have been a number of studies. And then when you know how that works, review the interaction between that young cub reporter and Marco Quintavalle.

For those of us that have a clue, there is no mystery.

 

[yimyammer]

In the US, most small-time burglars pretty much get away with it unless they are caught red-handed. People whose homes have been burglarized are often shocked to find the cops will do nothing about it, even when they have a pretty good idea who the culprit might be. Burglary investigations are complicated and time-consuming relative to the severity of the crime.

The cops eventually get around to dealing with people who are linked to a whole string of burglaries.

When Guede was arrested in Milan, the cops confiscated his stolen property and sent him on his way. I bet they'd have done the same thing in the US unless he had prior convictions.

So, I don't think it's fair to say that Guede would have been in jail if the police were doing their job. But Guede's history is significant because of what it says about his character and MO.

I actually don't have a problem with what Machiavelli has described as the procedures involving petty crimes. I think most seasoned police officers worldwide would just as soon avoid as much paperwork as they possibly can. And we're talking about Italy, where everything shuts down for three hours a day anyway.

Italian cops are just like American cops -- they don't want the boring cases, they want the exciting ones. We have plenty of cops in Seattle who are champing at the bit to shoot somebody, and they often do.

Anybody here whose house or car gets broken into is usually told there is nothing anyone can do about getting their stuff back. The police won't look for the burglars, that's for sure. They do enjoy the in flagrante delicto ones, though, because then they get to put their knees in people's backs. And Seattle cops have 3 more hours a day to fill than Italians.

Who knows, Italians may look at theft with the same attitude they seem to have about lying.

In Germany a new patent of a special machine made a sensation. It catches thieves in only five minutes. Installed in the USA, it allowed 1000 thieves to be caught in five minutes, while in Japan 6000 thieves were nabbed in five minutes. Installed in Italy, it was stolen in five minutes.

http://www.lifeinitaly.com/flash/humor

Fair points, but the tone sounds different but that may not be his intent. I think most would agree that while every petty crime can't practically be prosecuted, few would dismiss them as no big deal and imply that no wrong doing really occurred since the crime was petty, yet that's what it sounds like he is saying.

I may agree that a person who stole a hamburger shouldn't spend inordinate time in jail or that police resources could be better focused elsewhere, I wouldn't try to argue that because no prosecution took place or time was served that a theft did not in fact occur.

 

[Mary_H]

Fair points, but the tone sounds different but that may not be his intent. I think most would agree that while every petty crime can't practically be prosecuted, few would dismiss them as no big deal and imply that no wrong doing really occurred since the crime was petty, yet that's what it sounds like he is saying.

I may agree that a person who stole a hamburger shouldn't spend inordinate time in jail or that police resources could be better focused elsewhere, I wouldn't try to argue that because no prosecution took place or time was served that a theft did not in fact occur.

That's a good point. It's the old guilter meme, which says Rudi was not a criminal because he didn't have a record, whereas Amanda was a criminal because she was issued a noise ticket.