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Force feeding Guantánamo Bay prisoners

ravdin

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ravdin
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Oct 16, 2005
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The actor/musician Yasiin Bey, aka Mos Def, aka Dante Smith, volunteered to undergo the same force feeding procedure as the prisoners at Guantánamo Bay who are on hunger strike. What your hard earned tax dollars are paying for isn't pretty.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jul/08/mos-def-force-fed-guantanamo-bay-video

A federal judge recently denied an injunction against force feeding on the grounds that although it appears to violate medical ethics as well as international law, only our Nobel Peace Prize winning president has the authority to intervene.

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...e_faults_gitmo_force_feeding_but_wont_stop_it

There are no easy answers here, but I'd rather allow the prisoners the choice to refuse nourishment than do this to them.
 
NG tubes aren't exactly pleasant... but wow, what a drama queen.

The US doesn't really have the option of allowing the prisoners to starve themselves to death - the outcry and condemnation would be much greater than what we've seen in response to force-feeding. Thus, the choice is either: 1) force-feeding; or 2) giving in to prisoner demands.
 
Yeah, imagine not torturing people and respecting their rights to protest. Can't do that in the land of the free.
 
What I don't get is that the most of the prisoners there have been "cleared for release".

If they've been cleared for release, then just release them already!

And don't tell me it's because their own country doesn't want them, because that's not true.
 
Peephole said:
Yeah, imagine not torturing people and respecting their rights to protest. Can't do that in the land of the free.
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So... allow them to starve themselves to death? Or give in to their demands, thus encouraging a repeat of the behavior every time the prisoners want something? Obama is not prepared to release these prisoners, given that the suspected rate of recidivism for those previously released is about 28%.

thaiboxerken said:
They have brown skin, so who cares, right?
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What about the "brown people" who will be victimized when 25 or so (89 detainees cleared for release * 28%) howling jihadis return to the battlefield after being released? But you won't have to worry about them while sitting far, far away in your cozy little neighborhood, so who cares, right?

I think Mos Def was going for a repeat of the Christopher Hitchens' waterboarding stunt. The problem is that Hitchens was converted by his experience, afterwards proclaiming the practice to clearly be torture. Mos Def, on the other hand, seems like he went in to the session prepared to play it up and act like a hysterical baby. Mission accomplished.
 
I think we can calmly explain to the world that we are not mistreating them because they are prisoners. Really, the force feeding of people trying to starve themselves would be done to free people in this country.

Its weird, wrong, but not different treatment.
 
Mos Def is a prat who thinks Al-Qaeda are victims of the media.
 
fagin said:
What is the rate of recidivism amongst general prisoners?
Something like 70% in these UK prisons.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/04/jail-less-effective-community-service
So just lock them all up and throw away the key.
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According to the Guardian article, your "70%" number is based mainly on short-term prisoners. I'm going to assume that the consequences of these small-timers being released are much less disastrous than the consequences stemming from released terrorists getting back on the jihad train.

Additionally, those general recidivism rates are very broad, as opposed to the narrow scope of those put out by the DNI. For their recidivism numbers on released Guantanamo detainees, they're referring specifically to "Reengagement" - terrorists returning to the battlefield.

This causes some issues when attempting to compare their rates with those of general prisoners in the US or Britain:
- The overall rates for general prisoners are not limited to re-committing the same crime, e.g. a rapist who is released and then arrested for possession of marijuana would count against the numbers.
- For criminals who have committed crimes comparable to terrorism, like murder, the chance of re-committing that same crime is low. A 2007 report (on a cohort of prisoners released in 1994) from the Bureau of Justice Statistics notes that within 3 years, 61.7% of "Violent Offenders" were re-arrested, with 39.9% re-convicted. However, among murderers, the re-arrest rate for another murder was only 1.2%. For rapists, the re-arrest rate for another rape was only 2.5%.
- The probation/parole systems in the US and Britain are relatively strict, and violations of parole (failing a drug test, missing an appointment, etc.) which result in an arrest are counted against the numbers. Many parolees are given curfews and/or travel limitations, then monitored and tracked through tags. Just a guess, but this technique probably isn't real common in places like Yemen.
 
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fagin said:
What is the rate of recidivism amongst general prisoners?
Something like 70% in these UK prisons.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/04/jail-less-effective-community-service
So just lock them all up and throw away the key.
Click to expand...

It's an awesome argument:
Some people are prisoners.
Some of those will commit more crimes after being released.
Conclusion: We can not release any.
Further conclusion: Every sentence is now lifelong. (Some of them might commit further crimes after release)
Further conclusion: Why wait for the first offence? Lets just lock up everybody forever right now!

Btw: the reason the cleared yemenis can't be released is not what they did, or what they might do. The US thinks Yemen is too unstable a region. (I think so too: I heard there are flying killer robots in the area)
 
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mikedenk said:
Did he ever renounce his trutherism? YouTube link to the 2007 truth-telling. I enjoyed watching Bill Maher and Cornel West unsuccessfully attempt to slow down the crazy train.

No surprise then to see his most recent spectacle. Why, those poor dears in Guantanamo were all obviously framed by Amerikkka. Free KSM!
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I didn't know he was a truther. Ugh.

Still, this is the sort of thing I'd expect from one of the world's third world dictatorships, not the land of the free. Shoot the poor bastards and put them out of their misery, or find a way to let them go already.
 
mikedenk said:
Why, those poor dears in Guantanamo were all obviously framed by Amerikkka.
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"Framed"? Wouldn't that require pressing charges, making criminal accusations, presenting evidence and all that due-process stuff?
 
mikedenk said:
So... allow them to starve themselves to death? Or give in to their demands, thus encouraging a repeat of the behavior every time the prisoners want something? Obama is not prepared to release these prisoners, given that the suspected rate of recidivism for those previously released is about 28%.




What about the "brown people" who will be victimized when 25 or so (89 detainees cleared for release * 28%) howling jihadis return to the battlefield after being released? But you won't have to worry about them while sitting far, far away in your cozy little neighborhood, so who cares, right?

I think Mos Def was going for a repeat of the Christopher Hitchens' waterboarding stunt. The problem is that Hitchens was converted by his experience, afterwards proclaiming the practice to clearly be torture. Mos Def, on the other hand, seems like he went in to the session prepared to play it up and act like a hysterical baby. Mission accomplished.
Click to expand...

What the rate of recidivism for prisoners improperly incarcerated.

Sure, they have perfect justification for waging war on the US for tossing them in prison to rot after being rounded up off the street because a rival tribal leader sold them out by lying to the CIA. But that's not my question.

Is it recidivism if they never committed a crime to start with?
 
mikedenk said:
What about the "brown people" who will be victimized when 25 or so (89 detainees cleared for release * 28%) howling jihadis return to the battlefield after being released? But you won't have to worry about them while sitting far, far away in your cozy little neighborhood, so who cares, right?
Click to expand...

But some of those people who would be victimized would someday go on to commit a crime. Doesn't that fit into your philosophy of generalized proactive punishment?
 
mikedenk said:
So... allow them to starve themselves to death? Or give in to their demands, thus encouraging a repeat of the behavior every time the prisoners want something?
Click to expand...
Yes and yes.

From the World Medical Association:
Forcible feeding is never ethically acceptable. Even if intended to benefit, feeding accompanied by threats, coercion, force or use of physical restraints is a form of inhuman and degrading treatment.

http://www.wma.net/en/30publications/10policies/h31/
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From the Red Cross:
The ICRC is opposed to forced feeding or forced treatment; it is essential that the detainees' choices be respected and their human dignity preserved.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/faq/hunger-strike-icrc-position.htm
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From the United Nations:
In addition, the IACHR and the aforementioned United Nations bodies call to mind that, according to the World Medical Assembly’s Declaration of Malta, in cases involving people on hunger strikes, the duty of medical personnel to act ethically and the principle of respect for individuals’ autonomy, among other principles, must be respected. Under these principles, it is unjustifiable to engage in forced feeding of individuals contrary to their informed and voluntary refusal of such a measure.

www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=13278&LangID=E
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Warning: shocking, graphic footage of routine medical procedure!

 
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