angrysoba
Philosophile
...and Heaven knows he's miserable now.
http://www.juancole.com/2013/07/fundamentalist-president-removed.html
http://www.juancole.com/2013/07/fundamentalist-president-removed.html
Morsi Ousted By The Army...
- Thread starter angrysoba
- Start date
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
Yeah, we've been talking about this in the big "Post-revolution polls in Egypt" thread (which seems to have become a catchall thread for politics-in-Egypt-related discussions).
angrysoba
Philosophile
Childlike Empress
Banned
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
Well, it is still 'post-revolution'!
shemp
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Did he go home and cry and want to die?
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2011
- Messages
- 12,761
Please cite evidence in this thread that indicates posters' hypocrisy and justifies the insult. I notice that more often than not it's "you people" - conservatives, for lack of a better word - who initiate the ad hominem attacks on this forum. They don't seem to know any other way to argue. Maybe their reasoning skills are so limited that name-calling is the best they can do.
Acleron
Master Poster
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2007
- Messages
- 2,290
Part of the problem was that the people thought they had a democracy, Morsi didn't.
Don't like Morsi, don't like the Moslem Brotherhood....
... but why wouldn't new mass demos by the Mos Bros against the next elected President also be a cue for the military to oust the new incumbent?
Pinball presidencies? Election by force of demo? Election according to the preferences of the military?
... but why wouldn't new mass demos by the Mos Bros against the next elected President also be a cue for the military to oust the new incumbent?
Pinball presidencies? Election by force of demo? Election according to the preferences of the military?
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
Considering the rather poor showing of the Brotherhood at these protests, that might be a little difficult for them to try to pull off. At least for the near future...
Missing the point. Should it ever become a protest-fest? Biggest protest wins the Presidency by courtesy of the military? Is the Mos Bros keeping its powder dry pending an even bigger protest?
Hey ... suppose 50,000 rabid Republicans kick up a storm in D.C., fully armed (and filthy
)?LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
Missing the point. Should it ever become a protest-fest? Biggest protest wins the Presidency by courtesy of the military? Is the Mos Bros keeping its powder dry pending an even bigger protest?
Hey ... suppose 50,000 rabid Republicans kick up a storm in D.C., fully armed (and filthy
They really need to get with the program and start counting Facebook "Likes" and Twitter repostings instead.
Childlike Empress
Banned
Hey ... suppose 50,000 rabid Republicans kick up a storm in D.C., fully armed (and filthy
If you wanna draw parallels to the US, make that a hundred million people signing a petition to oust Obama and then taking it to the streets on a set date.
And leave the fully armed Republican (with help of a bunch of Mexican mercenaries) scenario to Syria parallels you might want to look into.
A'isha
Miss Schoolteacher
You don't understand the unprecedented scale of the anti-Morsi protests that just happened. The army didn't just cave to a few thousand vocal protesters. We're talking possibly up to a third of the entire population that were in the streets, and while that estimate is certainly on the high end, there were definitely more protesters against Morsi during the last few days than there were against Mubarak a few years ago.
Something colossally drastic would have to happen for the Brotherhood to scrape together even a fraction of those numbers.
Childlike Empress
Banned
Cairo, June 30:
Just some rough numbers - Egypt has around 84 million people, with 30% under 15 years old. I think the voting age is 16, but i'm not sure, but let's assume it is as that's on the safe side of calculations. Let's say (to be even more generous) 60 million citizens with voting rights. 22 million signed the "Tamarod" petition to oust Morsi. They collected signatures for a good two months and from the beginning it was part of the campaign that the one year anniversary of Morsi taking power would be the date where everybody who signed the petition was asked to take it to the streets. In the 2012 elections, around 26 million people took part and Morsi won with a tiny majority of slightly above 13 million votes. The army says that they are sure that at least 14 million people were on the streets of the country on June 30, and there are estimates far above that. This isn't something you can topple next week with a few ads.
Just some rough numbers - Egypt has around 84 million people, with 30% under 15 years old. I think the voting age is 16, but i'm not sure, but let's assume it is as that's on the safe side of calculations. Let's say (to be even more generous) 60 million citizens with voting rights. 22 million signed the "Tamarod" petition to oust Morsi. They collected signatures for a good two months and from the beginning it was part of the campaign that the one year anniversary of Morsi taking power would be the date where everybody who signed the petition was asked to take it to the streets. In the 2012 elections, around 26 million people took part and Morsi won with a tiny majority of slightly above 13 million votes. The army says that they are sure that at least 14 million people were on the streets of the country on June 30, and there are estimates far above that. This isn't something you can topple next week with a few ads.
I am thinking that if this were a long established democracy, then GlennB might have a point. But this is a new democracy, with a new constitution. As the first leader under that democracy and constitution, Morsi should have focused more on the long term goals of the nation, rather than short term party dynamics.
There is no guarantee that the constitution would be perfect as first written. In the U.S. for example, our relative stability might be due in part to the fact that we replaced our first "constitution" (the Articles of Confederation) with the current constitution, then immediately and substantially amended it with the Bill or Rights. Even then, we had a horrible civil war and visited some extreme horrors upon African and Native Americans.
Morsi instead seemed to cling to the new constitution and focused on what was good for his political party (although, to his credit, he did initially resign from the Brotherhood in a show of neutrality). In an established democracy with checks and balances, that's not all bad (but not very good, either). In a new democracy, that can easily lead to a permanent one-party government. The Egyptian people seemed to figure that out before it was too late.
This is probably still in the beginning stages of change for Egypt. They've got to set up a functional multi-party democarcy in an environment where the Muslim Brotherhood will still be popular with a large segment of the population, and possibly now hostile to Democracy. Add the that the Salafists, who are siding with the rebels for now, but are generally hostile to democracy as well. Then there is the military, which is currently the side of popular opinion, but faces little accountability and is pretty much an unelected parallel government in its own right.
They've got to get democracy going, but the Brotherhood and the Salafists may not be inclined to support that any more, and the military may only support it when it benefits the military. The moment a popular leader tries to reign in the military, that popular leader may find the going very rough.
Last edited: