Ohio State Sen. says if men are so worried about wombs, then turnabout is fair play

[A'isha]

for the supposed "small government" party, the republicans sure are clueless as to the meaning of "it's none of your ***** business!"

They want government just small enough to fit inside a woman's uterus.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Shouldn't these fine and honorable Texas legislators be devoting their precious time to drafting articles of secession?

 

[Magyar]

If someone is at Planned Parenthood to get birth control pills I can see the logic of the pregnancy test. For one thing why not have the information? If a woman doesn't want a baby wouldn't she be better off knowing if she's already pregnant?

Uhmm. Just musing here. But how about because:
She is a virgin and KNOWS she hasn't had sex with anyone before but. - dog the republican horror- she wants to without getting married or pregnant and wants to take precautions available to her through science .

Or how about if, despite being considered a second class citizen by the loony right and not deemed important enough to deserve protection from sexual harassment and rape from her "supperior" officers she just returned from afganistan and knows she hasn't had sex.

Or how about she's one of the discarded wife's of the right wing family values retardican men who dump their wives for secretaries, boyfriends or because they have cancer and the horror and they want to date again.

Or how about JUST because here in the 21st century those of us with brains consider the 50% of the population who have different reproductive organs from ours to be just as intelligent and worthy of dignity, respect and the right of self determination in every aspect of their lives as we do!?

It seems pretty practical.

Yea one would say that if ones world view is stuck in the 19th century where those affected by said laws are deemed to be in need of oversight by those deemed supperior.

 

[marplots]

My rhetoric getting the best of me again?

You keep me honest and I'll keep you honest.

 

[marplots]

They want government just small enough to fit inside a woman's uterus.

Excellent! Nommed.

 

[A'isha]

Excellent! Nommed.

Thank you, but sadly, it's not original to me!

 

[Muldur]

The all important distinction that you are deliberately ignoring is that a man's penile health affects no one but his own (except for the case of transmitting a VD perhaps).

Abortion is not about a woman's "health" in the overwhelming majority of cases, but rather about her desire to to carry a child she chose to help conceive.

Further more, abortion has a decidedly negative impact, indeed a fatal impact, on the health of the pre-born baby.

Even the most strident Libertarian should oppose abortion on the grounds of bad direct impact on the rights of another under their moral principle that one "has the right to swing ones arms as they will, so long as they are not hitting another person with them".

 

[RandFan]

The all important distinction that you are deliberately ignoring is that a man's penile health affects no one but his own (except for the case of transmitting a VD perhaps).

Abortion is not about a woman's "health" in the overwhelming majority of cases, but rather about her desire to to carry a child she chose to help conceive.

Further more, abortion has a decidedly negative impact, indeed a fatal impact, on the health of the pre-born baby.

Even the most strident Libertarian should oppose abortion on the grounds of bad direct impact on the rights of another under their moral principle that one "has the right to swing ones arms as they will, so long as they are not hitting another person with them".

(please see equivocate) The vast majority of cases are about a thinking, feeling human being (mother) and a fetus. Until (aprox) the age of viability there is no thinking feeling fetus. There is tissue. I had surgery to remove a 40 lb mass on my leg (edema). It was human tissue. It didn't think or feel and no one cares that I had it removed from my body. No one is ever going to shoot a surgeon simply because he or she removes human tissue. It's only when we label the unthinking, unfeeling tissue as a "another person" that people get up in arms.

e·quiv·o·cate

Use ambiguous language so as to conceal the truth or avoid committing oneself.

 

[A'isha]

Abortion is not about a woman's "health" in the overwhelming majority of cases, but rather about her desire to to carry a child she chose to help conceive.

I think you're leaving out something rather important there.

Further more, abortion has a decidedly negative impact, indeed a fatal impact, on the health of the pre-born baby.

It's not a "baby" at the time that the vast majority of abortions occur.

Even the most strident Libertarian should oppose abortion on the grounds of bad direct impact on the rights of another under their moral principle that one "has the right to swing ones arms as they will, so long as they are not hitting another person with them".

It's not a "fetus" at the time that the vast majority of abortions occur.

 

[Magyar]

Abortion is not about a woman's "health" in the overwhelming majority of cases, but rather about her desire to to carry a child she chose to help conceive.
".

And considering that the imaginary father/son/wholly ghost Jewish zombie is the largest abortionist by orders of magnitude in the forms of miscarriages and is what busy body religious mutters base their intrusion into other people's lives. And further considering that the vast majority of natural abortions occurs even without the knowledge of the women and thus only known to your sky fairy I say that the very real women who live in the actual real world and make decisions on actual real life situations should have as much control over their reproductive rights for the same period as your delusional sky daddy.

 

[Crossbow]

I am surprised that no one has yet proposed legislation that would keep all fertile men and women in 'protective custody'. After all, if there were such a thing, then the State would be able to continously watch them just to make sure that no one is doing anything that could be potentially harmful to the development of a future human.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Rather than waste time, money, and energy fighting over abortion both sides should direct resources to advancing medicine to the point where we could have opt-in fertility: make everybody sterile by default, then need to have a procedure or drug to undo it.

 

[A'isha]

Something needs To be Done About All These Men In Texas Having Abortions, Because None Of Them Are Happy Now

I love Wonkette.

 

[Minoosh]

Hell no it's not reasonable. I've no idea what you are going on about being already pregnant. It's a myth that abortions are given to women who are not pregnant. Help me out with that. What are you talking about?

What I meant has nothing to do with performing abortions on women who are not pregnant. I meant, before prescribing contraception it might be useful to find out if a woman is already pregnant. Because if she is, she has a more immediate concern than contraception and that is obtaining an abortion, if she wants one. I can't swear to this but I vaguely remember it from a visit to Planned Parenthood. I was about to get a hormone shot good for 3 months of anti-conception but for medical reasons it shouldn't be given to pregnant women. The medical equation does include potential harm to the fetus, because it's not a given that a woman seeking birth control will abort. My personal feeling was always that if I conceived I would probably not abort, but I didn't want to conceive. That's not logical, I know.

I hope that makes the meaning clearer.

 

[Muldur]

Yes, but abortion laws already take that into account, and always have

Given the fact that non-medically necessary abortions are still being performed I question that statement.

 

[Minoosh]

Rather than waste time, money, and energy fighting over abortion both sides should direct resources to advancing medicine to the point where we could have opt-in fertility: make everybody sterile by default, then need to have a procedure or drug to undo it.

This is my preferred solution - if we want to go the route of total social engineering. If we don't, it won't work.

 

[Minoosh]

Given the fact that non-medically necessary abortions are still being performed I question that statement.

Isn't what's medically necessary a decision by the woman and the doctor?

 

[Muldur]

Originally Posted by RandFan

What about getting govt out of people's personal lives.

That's what I've been saying.

The government ALWAYS has a legitimate interest in protecting innocent human beings from harm.

Or are you against laws against murder?

 

[Muldur]

The problem is that Republican rhetoric and legislative efforts are aimed at erasing that line, to the point where a fetus is declared to be a person (so that aborting it would be illegal) before the fertilized egg even has a chance to get implanted.

Because conception (union of sperm and egg) is the earliest point at which the pre-born baby exists as a distinct, identifiable entity.

A sperm or egg cannot of their own become a child. A fertilized egg, left unhampered (and barring accident or illness), will grow and develop into a fully grown human being.

Because the Republicans don't just want to prevent abortion, they want to make sure women have children, like God intended.

If they don't want children, they can CHOOSE to not engage in the activity that can lead to the conception of children.

It's that simple.

And yes, I DO apply that to men as well. If they don't want to take the chance on becoming responsible for a child, they need to keep their penises in their pants where it belongs.

 

[A'isha]

Given the fact that non-medically necessary abortions are still being performed I question that statement.

Given the fact that non-medically necessary abortions are not performed after a certain point in the pregnancy (the "line" that Minoosh was talking about) under current abortion laws, your "question" would appear to be entirely misguided.

Because conception (union of sperm and egg) is the earliest point at which the pre-born baby exists as a distinct, identifiable entity.

Not according to actual medical science.

A sperm or egg cannot of their own become a child. A fertilized egg, left unhampered (and barring accident or illness), will grow and develop into a fully grown human being.

Develop into. It's not one at the start, nor is it one for quite some time afterward.

If they don't want children, they can CHOOSE to not engage in the activity that can lead to the conception of children.

A number of pregnant women didn't actually choose to engage in the activity in the first place, you know.