More fabricated outcry over caricatures...

Safe-Keeper

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Safe-Keeper
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...this time from the Jews.

http://www.dagbladet.no/2013/06/11/kultur/meninger/debattinnlegg/kronikk/omskjering/27644189/ (in Norwegian, use Google Translator if you need to).

Basically, Thomas Drefvelin, the Norwegian comic artist behind "20mg drefvelin", a very satirical comic strip that caricatures about just about everything from religion to the police to politics, drew a caricature of Jewish circumsicion, with the two men performing the procedure telling two policemen who dropped by that "no, this isn't abuse, this is tradition, an important part of our faith", to which one of the smiling policemen reply that "oh, but then it's totally fine. Pardon the disruption" as they head out the door.

Inevitable response to this strip that's no more brutal or over-the-top than the rest of his works, or the rest of political caricatures in general (save from all the blood)? Cries of "Anti-Semitism", "hatred" and "racism". A Norwegian pro-Israel interest group even went as far as to call it "blood libel".

Looks like someone can dish it out, but not take it.
 
The cartoon does not appear to depict circumcision though. It shows them sticking a fork in the baby's forehead and cutting off its toes.

I guess the point is that circumcision is comparable to cutting off toes.

I'm not Jewish but I was circumcised as an infant, and I don't think it's anything like having toes cut off. However, I did not circumcise my own son because I think the decision should be his own to freely make. I never really thought about it all that much or missed it myself until I became aware of the controversy. Now that I am aware, I wish that decision hadn't been made for me without my consent. Still, I don't see it as comparable to female genital mutilation or having ones toes cut off.
 
Puppycow said:
The cartoon does not appear to depict circumcision though. It shows them sticking a fork in the baby's forehead and cutting off its toes.
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Oh, wow, a caricature that's not a hundred percent realistic.

I think the question it asks is, as you yourself seem to understand, that if cutting a baby's foreskin off is okay and acceptable, then why not other body parts? Why not the tip of the baby's right ear? Why not give it a tattoo? Why not one of the smallest toes, 'cause face it, it's not like you're going to need it all that much?

Still, I don't see it as comparable to female genital mutilation or having ones toes cut off.
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An argument could be made that cutting off the foreskin of a penis is comparable to cutting off the foreskin of the clitoris -- a practice which is forbidden in most Western nations, to my knowledge. Strangely enough, you don't find any Christians or Jews who support this practices of this kind when they're done by cultures they haven't been socialised into.
 
Do women traditionally carry out circumcision in Judaism?

I have seen it reported that it is a man (holding the pitchfork), and a woman doing the cutting (of the toe).
 
Safe-Keeper said:
...drew a caricature of Jewish circumsicion
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I don't think it was supposed to be interpreted as being Jewish. I think it was supposed to be a representative of outlandish beliefs and customs. I think everyone knows Jews don't have a ritual where they stick a fork in the forehead and cut the toes off of babies.

The point is that customs that would never have been accepted otherwise, are accepted if it's done because of religion. Like circumcision.


ETA:
The text in the comic is:
"Abuse? No, this is tradition! It's an important part of our faith!"
"Faith? Oh, then it's all right!"
 
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They better get that guy 24-7 police protection or some Jewish extremist will break down his door with an axe and complain him to death in front of his grandchild.
 
Eddie Dane said:
They better get that guy 24-7 police protection or some Jewish extremist will break down his door with an axe and complain him to death in front of his grandchild.
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LOL. Better yet, he'll bring some of his Jewish friends, and for n present, there will be n+1 opinions on the matter.
 
Having looked at the cartoon, I can understand why it was upsetting. It's a gory scene that depicts copious amounts of blood. In addition to the fork in the baby's head (which would likely be a fatal injury) and the severing of all the toes with garden clippers, there are several additional holes gouged in the baby's abdomen, resulting in a puddle of blood underneath. This approaches the line of accusation of blood libel, which anti-Semites have made against the Jews in the past. According to the accusation, Jews sacrifice Christian babies in order to use their blood in unholy rituals.

To put the cartoon in perspective though, most political cartoons suck, including many that are currently in syndication. This particular example is a badly written, badly drawn, unfunny cartoon that is visually revolting and fails to get any sort of message across. I wouldn't give it any more attention than that.
 
I don't think circumcision is nearly as bad as forking a skull. I'm circumcised and don't appreciate my parents decision to do it, but really. C'mon.

To compare it to cutting off toes is silly. The most that's being lost is some enjoyment of sex. And, if you as my gf, I probably don't need any more desire to do that.
 
Wait, are there riots and death threats? Was the cartoonist attacked in his home by an ax wielding maniac? Are there demands for an apology from the government of Norway? Otherwise I don't see how this is a repeat of the 2006 Danish cartoon "controversy".
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I think the question it asks is, as you yourself seem to understand, that if cutting a baby's foreskin off is okay and acceptable, then why not other body parts? Why not the tip of the baby's right ear? Why not give it a tattoo? Why not one of the smallest toes, 'cause face it, it's not like you're going to need it all that much?
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That's closer to asking someone why they don't cut off their entire toe if they cut their toenails.

People who are circumcised say they prefer it. People who are uncircumcised also say they prefer it.

I seriously doubt the same would be said about toes or ears.

thaiboxerken said:
To compare it to cutting off toes is silly.
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Exactly.
 
ravdin said:
Wait, are there riots and death threats? Was the cartoonist attacked in his home by an ax wielding maniac? Are there demands for an apology from the government of Norway? Otherwise I don't see how this is a repeat of the 2006 Danish cartoon "controversy".
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Nobody said it was.
 
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