Are You Spiritual?

This usually means, "I believe a lot of crazy things, but nobody tells ME what crazy stuff to believe in!"
This.

Spiritual is what folks call themselves when they realize that they can't buy into the mythology and dogma of the established religions, yet they still think that the question of "why" has to have an answer.
 
I point out whenever and wherever I can that the word spiritual should be wrested away from its too precious monopolisation by religious people!
 
The same etymological connection appears in "inspiration" (respiration, expiration, perspiration) though not in "exasperation". Do you ever feel the need to call yourself inspired?

You'll notice I said "Even skipping the etymological connection", yet you latch onto it as if etymology was my argument. I believe that if you take out of context and distort what someone is saying, it is still called a strawman.

The point is that everyone who says they're "inspired", usually doesn't mean divine wooowoo, whereas the usual meaning of "spiritual" IS loaded with divine woowoo. Not as in etymology, but as in what it currently means. In fact, the #1 meaning I run into these days means believing in some woowoo New Age nonsense (or to paraphrase how the others put it, "I believe in a different kind of crazy stuff"), followed by mainstream religion "spirituality".

If "inspired" were similarly loaded, then, yes, I would look for a different word for that too. A more apt analogy would be asking whether I too claim the Holy Spirit inspires me (e.g., when I read a book on physics), and the answer is: no it does not.

The clue that it's not meant in a secular form when people charge atheists or skeptics with not being spiritual is in the very fact that they see atheism or skepticism as an obstacle to that. Their definition does include believing in some kind of woowoo that atheists or skeptics don't. That's why they think you can't do that while being an atheist or a skeptic.

Going "oh, I'm spiritual too", then proceeding to lay down a secular definition of spiritual is, like any switching word meanings in mid flight, an equivocation fallacy.

It's like saying, "oh, I'm gay too, but, erm, not in the being attracted to men kind. I mean the old definition." Who cares? If that's not what the interlocutor was asking about, it's just a red herring by way of an equivocation.

Or "I'm a libertarian, but not the Ayn Rand kind. I want socialized medicine, gun control, more welfare, mandatory paid vacations, etc, etc, etc." Not an exact quote, but that seems to have been a fair summary of Bill Maher's position when he claimed to be a libertarian. But then in effect he's not. Laying down your own definition of X doesn't make you an X too. He's just a guy who wants pot to be legal, not a libertarian.

And so it is IMHO for "spiritual" too. WTH is the point of finding another definition by which I'm spiritual too, when the one charging me with not being spiritual is meaning the woowoo definition?

And not only that is an equivocation, but that is essentially validating his claim that being spiritual (in his woowoo way!) is something positive, instead of just a crazy superstition. Instead of telling him he's crazy, I'm agreeing that his version is just as positive as my secular version.
 
Are You Spiritual?

I am consciousness. All else (sub-identities) follow. I choose what I am wanting to 'be' (as an act) but primarily I am Consciousness.
"Spiritual" is a sub identity which I have found to be non useful primarily because of its claims towards unity but its obvious inability to go there. Its inherent dogmatism is unattractive also.

For the same reasons, I would not identify with any other 'isms' etc which produced the same, even that they would appear in opposition to things 'spiritual'.

That makes the choices (to identify with anything) quite a bit more narrowly defined which helps with being less confused and generally unfettered by dogmatism...mind open - alternates surprisingly available.
 
I remember a brief discussion on this in one of the threads about AA, where one can choose a doorknob to be their all-necessary "higher power". The term seemed to be a favourite cop-out to supposedly demonstrate that one can be "spiritual" without being religious.

I liked the romantic idea of being "spiritual", when I took it to mean that it is a virtue to look for deeper meaning in our experiences, especially the more poetic, or intangible truths we feel are so real.

But to me, now, the term begs to imply the existence of a "spirit" in the first place, which I discount due to a severe lack of evidence.

So no, I'm not spiritual.
 
You'll notice I said "Even skipping the etymological connection", yet you latch onto it as if etymology was my argument.
I noticed what you said. Your phrase invokes the connection, thus it becomes part of the argument. I dealt with it as part of the argument, not as the entire argument.

The point is that everyone who says they're "inspired", usually doesn't mean divine wooowoo, whereas the usual meaning of "spiritual" IS loaded with divine woowoo. Not as in etymology, but as in what it currently means. In fact, the #1 meaning I run into these days means believing in some woowoo New Age nonsense (or to paraphrase how the others put it, "I believe in a different kind of crazy stuff"), followed by mainstream religion "spirituality".
Granted.

I'm saying that new-age nonsense peddlers don't have any more exclusive right to the word than the devout theists they wrested it from.

The clue that it's not meant in a secular form when people charge atheists or skeptics with not being spiritual is in the very fact that they see atheism or skepticism as an obstacle to that. Their definition does include believing in some kind of woowoo that atheists or skeptics don't. That's why they think you can't do that while being an atheist or a skeptic.

Going "oh, I'm spiritual too", then proceeding to lay down a secular definition of spiritual is, like any switching word meanings in mid flight, an equivocation fallacy.
It would be, if I was switching word meanings in mid flight, but I'm not. I'm consistently using "spiritual" in a secular sense, and I believe I'm justified in doing so. I think I get the same emotional feeling of "connectedness" from my brand of spirituality as theists and new-agers get from theirs.

WTH is the point of finding another definition by which I'm spiritual too, when the one charging me with not being spiritual is meaning the woowoo definition?

And not only that is an equivocation, but that is essentially validating his claim that being spiritual (in his woowoo way!) is something positive, instead of just a crazy superstition. Instead of telling him he's crazy, I'm agreeing that his version is just as positive as my secular version.
The reason he values it is because it provides emotional gratification. That's the reason I value it too.

The reason I would use the same word is that it accurately conveys my belief that the same emotional and inspirational benefits are available without what we might call the supernatural nonsense. It's similar to telling a drug addict that I'm "high on life". I use the same word because I believe the essential experience is similar.

I had what I'd describe as a spiritual experience this past weekend, as I was dumping a tray of ice cubes into the hopper and refilling the tray. I thought about how "ice water" was not available to quench hot summer thirsts for most of humanity's existence. As recently as a couple of centuries ago, it was available only to the wealthy, who sawed ice out of rivers and lakes in the winter and stored it for months. I thought about all the unknown people who tamed electricity, developed refrigeration, built the technology which made in-home freezing possible. I even thought about the people who developed the plastic trays which eject cubes with a twist, a substantial improvement over the metal trays with levers which were state-of-the-art when I was a child, and about how those metal trays had replaced big-block delivery and ice picks. I thought about the people who developed plastics, and "The Graduate", and petroleum, and transportation.

I was filled with a sense of connectedness and gratitude for the vast chain of events which made it possible for me to satisfy a basic physical need so easily and elegantly. I was thankful.

I didn't think the people to whom I was grateful were "somehow aware" of my gratitude, and it made me mindful that my actions can affect the lives of others, even when I don't realize it, and even when they don't. In some tiny way, maybe that reinforcement of my awareness will lead to better behavior in the future, to less impatience with people who are impeding my goals, to more appreciation for those who are facilitating them, to less time wasted in idleness.

Maybe my brand of spirituality would not bring you the same emotional benefits it brings me. I do think it brings me many of the same emotional benefits which adherents of supernatural spirituality get from theirs, and using the same word is beneficial if only because it clarifies that supernatural beliefs are not necessary.

ETA: Apropos of nothing, I'll bet Jesus and Mohammed never even knew ice existed. Not sure about Buddha.
 
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"Spiritual" seems to mean a variety of things to many people, as indicated. A lot of our friends are involved in the local neo-pagan community, and some describe the word as simply being involved in human rights or social justice or whatever....
Whereas others believe in literal "nature spirits"....

My own partly tongue-in-cheek definition is "How human beings think about and react to things that they only imagine to exist."
 
I like this description of spirituality from wikipedia:

The term spirituality lacks a definitive definition,[1][2] although social scientists have defined spirituality as the search for "the sacred," where "the sacred" is broadly defined as that which is set apart from the ordinary and worthy of veneration.[3]


I've never described myself as spiritual, but I've had experiences that I wouldn't be averse to calling spiritual according to this definition I've posted. Being with my grandmother when my grandfather passed away, holding women I've been in love with, achieving great accomplishments. From a reductionist stand-point, all of these events are nothing, but from a more emergent stand-point, I think spiritual is a great way of describing them, in the most atheistic sense of the term.
 
Spirit makes us who we are and spirituality is simply the ability to understand that and relate to self as well as to everyone else. The body is simply a machine. The spirit puts life in that machine. Understanding and relating to that is spirituality. But, as someone else pointed out, many people turn spirituality into superstition, myth, magic and such. That is not spirituality. That is simply a deep longing for something more than there really is.

My thought for what it is worth.:)
 
Spirituality is the last refuge of a failed human. A way of distracting yourself from who you really are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Demographics

"A 2010 survey published in Encyclopædia Britannica found that the non-religious made up about 9.6% of the world's population, and atheists about 2.0%. This figure did not include those who follow atheistic religions, such as some Buddhists."


If "spirituality is the last refuge of a failed human", then the vast majority of the human race is, according to you, a group of 'failed humans' even though that group consists of 85-95% percent of the human race.

So, we've got a young man who thinks he knows
more than the vast majority of people who 'believe' in something.

ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science#1901.E2.80.932000_.2820th_century.29

Below, I have listed some of the things that are typical of Debunkers

Debunker's Law of Omnicient Absolute – Their
Perspective and opinions are All knowing and All Seeing and beyond reproach. Anybody that’s “right thinking” will see that as self-evident. Any differing opinion is therefore totally wrong (see Black and White/All-or-Nothing thinking)

Law of Immaculate Perception™
Argument from incorruptus perceptum
they are the only ones who see reality exactly as it is unhindered by any cognitive biases. So therefore, to disagree with them is to disagree with reality itself.

Law of Instant Branding/Labeling - Refer to anyone who does not immediately agree with you or dares utter a dissenting opinion as being a woo, crackpot, idiot, etc. as being uneducated on the matter, lacking in important information, or just plain too stupid to understand your magnificent statements.

So, we've got a young man who thinks he knows the 'truth' more than millions and billions of people who have lived and do believe in something.
 
I'm spiritual. I celebrate the human spirit, as expressed in art, music, literature, science, technology, mathematics, etc. etc.

I'm not spiritual. I celebrate art, music, literature, science, technology maths etc.

Suggesting that these is a link between a makey-uppey notion of goodness-knows-what and the ability to appreciate human achievement and endeavour, and the beauty of nature etc, is fallacious and mis-leading.
 
Below, I have listed some of the things that are typical of Debunkers

Debunker's Law of Omnicient Absolute – Their
Perspective and opinions are All knowing and All Seeing and beyond reproach. Anybody that’s “right thinking” will see that as self-evident. Any differing opinion is therefore totally wrong (see Black and White/All-or-Nothing thinking)

Law of Immaculate Perception™
Argument from incorruptus perceptum
they are the only ones who see reality exactly as it is unhindered by any cognitive biases. So therefore, to disagree with them is to disagree with reality itself.

Law of Instant Branding/Labeling - Refer to anyone who does not immediately agree with you or dares utter a dissenting opinion as being a woo, crackpot, idiot, etc. as being uneducated on the matter, lacking in important information, or just plain too stupid to understand your magnificent statements.

Are you saying that religious people don't do those things?
 
I'm not spiritual. I celebrate art, music, literature, science, technology maths etc.

Suggesting that these is a link between a makey-uppey notion of goodness-knows-what and the ability to appreciate human achievement and endeavour, and the beauty of nature etc, is fallacious and mis-leading.

Do you have a name/label/expression for 'it' Mike?
 
Do you have a name/label/expression for 'it' Mike?

No, but almost everything that I have ever heard associated with the term spirituality has been woo, and the rest is easily explainable in terms of consciousness/ self-awareness.
 
Spirituality is the last refuge of a failed human. A way of distracting yourself from who you really are.

Who are you really?

What exactly IS a 'failed human' and does the answer directly connect with knowing 'who you really are'?
 
No, but almost everything that I have ever heard associated with the term spirituality has been woo, and the rest is easily explainable in terms of consciousness/ self-awareness.

Then the name for it is Consciousness. (self awareness is more describing what Consciousness is able to do.)

Now in linking Consciousness with the term "spiritual" from where it (and all other concepts) originate we could agree that it is largely a defunct of non-necessary terms to be using nowadays.

I speculate that 'Spirituality' hearkens back to a less enlightened time when Consciousness was not so understood or indeed, not so understanding of itself.
 
If "spirituality is the last refuge of a failed human", then the vast majority of the human race is, according to you, a group of 'failed humans' even though that group consists of 85-95% percent of the human race.

So, we've got a young man who thinks he knows
more than the vast majority of people who 'believe' in something.
As much as I disagree with the statement from the poster who said spirituality is the last refuge of a failed human, I think your rebuttal falls into the appeal to popularity fallacy. Just because a lot of people believe in something doesn't make it true (or false). Popularity has zero bearing on validity.

Debunker's Law of Omnicient Absolute – Their
Perspective and opinions are All knowing and All Seeing and beyond reproach. Anybody that’s “right thinking” will see that as self-evident. Any differing opinion is therefore totally wrong (see Black and White/All-or-Nothing thinking)

Law of Immaculate Perception™
Argument from incorruptus perceptum
they are the only ones who see reality exactly as it is unhindered by any cognitive biases. So therefore, to disagree with them is to disagree with reality itself.

Law of Instant Branding/Labeling - Refer to anyone who does not immediately agree with you or dares utter a dissenting opinion as being a woo, crackpot, idiot, etc. as being uneducated on the matter, lacking in important information, or just plain too stupid to understand your magnificent statements.
Believers often do these things too. I'm not saying that makes it right or justifies doing it yourself. Bifurcation, absolutes, and labeling are signs of bigotry, regardless of which side they're on.
 
Then the name for it is Consciousness. (self awareness is more describing what Consciousness is able to do.).....

In humans, yes. But we aren't the only creatures on the planet with brains, and we can have no idea whether most of them are self-aware or not.
 
In humans, yes. But we aren't the only creatures on the planet with brains, and we can have no idea whether most of them are self-aware or not.

If they are conscious, we can be fairly certain at the very least, that every creature with a brain will be self aware.

Self awareness though, is something which consciousness can do, it is not what consciousness actually is.

Could you list the creatures which you think through observing them, show signs of self awareness?
If you can, then you (and we) have some idea, rather than no idea.
 
If "spirituality is the last refuge of a failed human", then the vast majority of the human race is, according to you, a group of 'failed humans' even though that group consists of 85-95% percent of the human race.

So, we've got a young man who thinks he knows
more than the vast majority of people who 'believe' in something.

Truthfully, knowing is far the better state of being than believing.
"does it act against faith just because I have to know?" perhaps, but I am willing as Consciousness, to go there.

I speculate that Consciousness which knows, is more useful than Consciousness which believes. Indeed, one state is more conscious than the other. More 'awake'.
 

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