Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Briars]

Double standard alert! Yet Knox and Sollecito at interrogation are expected to remember precise details of a night 4 days' previous.

Just thought I'd point this out.

The day they last see Meredith the day before they are at the scene of her murder. A pretty memorable day for a new couple. Didn't Sollecito need a calender and was upset he couldn't look at one. Was he at a party like he told Kate, did her make love, or had the novelty worn off. Did Amanda eat dinner before leaving for work or was it hours later conflicting with Mr Sollecito's call as she claimed. Sollecito even said she may have gone out. Big difference to not checking the clock by Nara.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

But at least you realise it's an area in which expertise is required. I am not sure everyone posting here understands that.

Reconstructing what happened at a crime scene requires a trained eye, but anyone can evaluate whether the resulting narrative makes sense and fits the physical evidence. Briars thinks the fingertip bruises on Meredith's jaw were made by someone in a frontal position. To test that, hold your hand out as though you're about to grab the face of someone in front of you, and notice how your fingers are positioned.

It's also worth noting this, from the pathology report:

Escoriazioni attorno alle narici ed ecchimosi alle labbra. Si tratta degli effetti contusivi di azione volta ad occludere gli orifizi del volto (volta a soffocare o, più probabilmente, vista la loro tenuità, ad impedire l’emissione di suoni).

Mancano del tutto segni di urto o di compressione del volto contro il suolo.

Google translation:

Bruises around nostrils and bruising of the lips. It is blunt the effects of action to occlude the orifices of the face (time to choke or, more likely, given their tenuous, to prevent the emission of sounds).

Completely lacking signs of impact or compression of the face against the ground.

In other words, bruising on the face and jaw from a tight grip rather than a blow or impact.

Imagine grabbing someone's face from a frontal position, tightly enough to leave that kind of bruising, with your hand positioned so the fingers are on the underside of the victim's jaw. How believable is that?

Then position your left hand as though you're reaching around to grip the face and cover the mouth and nose of someone who is facing away from you. Notice the position of your fingers. Then look at the photo on Frank's blog.

Common sense goes a long way in this area.

 

[Bill Williams]

The day they last see Meredith the day before they are at the scene of her murder. A pretty memorable day for a new couple. Didn't Sollecito need a calender and was upset he couldn't look at one. Was he at a party like he told Kate, did her make love, or had the novelty worn off. Did Amanda eat dinner before leaving for work or was it hours later conflicting with Mr Sollecito's call as she claimed. Sollecito even said she may have gone out. Big difference to not checking the clock by Nara.

Sorry, that is not convincing at all. Nara is not remembering the day of a SCREAM! Amanda and Raffaele had no particular reason to remember the trivial household events Nov 1 at Raffaele's apartment.

Are you really equating remembering a "scream" with remembering when dinner was?

Sollecito was asked when Knox went out. Initially he thought it was either Tuesday the 30th or Nov 1st, because he thought they were talking about when Knox was scheduled to work; which were Tuesdays and Thursdays. Then he thought they might be referring to the 31st when everyone was out for Hallowe'en... he asked for a calendar to sort out which days of the week belonged to which dates of the month.

How can you possibly equate a confusion about remembering a scream of someone in distress (which when she heard it Nara did....................

....................... absolutely nothing, much less note the time) with a routine night at home?

I think this is why many are simply finding the excuses to vilify Knox and Sollecito disingenuous. Your post and rationale are double standards in the extreme.... now, you're trying to make excuses for people not looking at a clock for allegedly hearing a scream of distress.... and not even recalling it, really, until induced by a journalist a year later.

Sheesh.

 

[GreyFox]

Who checks the time when they go to the toilet or when they make a tea. Did she realize a murder had been committed at that point or even a crime? No she said she looked out the window and listened . I've woken up heard yelling out my window listened for further trouble then assumed it was teens or something.Checking the time doesn't seem necessary. The fact that it was just a scream and not prolonged screaming meant she had to assess in her mind what she might have heard in those seconds and assume that it was over and hope it was just a scream and not serious.

Wait a minute! Nara (sometime later) went to the press and described this scream as blood curtaling . She didnt pass it off as kids at the park down the road or something. She presented it to be MK's scream from the murder across the street. As something horrific from the murdered girl,not kids messing around.

Everybody hears stuff at night and wonders if it's relavent to a crime somewhere,but when you here something like Nara describes most people will at least note the time and think if they find out tomorrow something bad happened then that relates to what I heard at such and such time.

So dont conveinently pass it off as teenagers on the one hand and yet a loud earth shattering scream when we question her hearing it through double pane windows.PGP trick... Do you smell it? I do.

 

[Bill Williams]

Yes well the slaps were imagined Donnino said so. I don't imagine her to be a liar.

No, but she knows the way things work in Perugia, as does Filomena.

Why do you think Kokomani might be near the cottage and why implicate the defendants then leave Perugia?

No idea. I'd like to hear what you think.

 

[GreyFox]

Yes well the slaps were imagined Donnino said so. I don't imagine her to be a liar. Why do you think Kokomani might be near the cottage and why implicate the defendants then leave Perugia?

That's why after 6 years Rudy's, victims family still dont have closure. People like you keep imagining things with no proof whatsoever. Hellman called it like that too, in his judgement. The same as you say it didnt happen ,we can say it did.There's no tape for a reason ! She was slapped,bullied , and told what she needed to imply.

 

[Briars]

Reconstructing what happened at a crime scene requires a trained eye, but anyone can evaluate whether the resulting narrative makes sense and fits the physical evidence. Briars thinks the fingertip bruises on Meredith's jaw were made by someone in a frontal position. To test that, hold your hand out as though you're about to grab the face of someone in front of you, and notice how your fingers are positioned.

It's also worth noting this, from the pathology report:

Escoriazioni attorno alle narici ed ecchimosi alle labbra. Si tratta degli effetti contusivi di azione volta ad occludere gli orifizi del volto (volta a soffocare o, più probabilmente, vista la loro tenuità, ad impedire l’emissione di suoni).

Mancano del tutto segni di urto o di compressione del volto contro il suolo.

Google translation:

Bruises around nostrils and bruising of the lips. It is blunt the effects of action to occlude the orifices of the face (time to choke or, more likely, given their tenuous, to prevent the emission of sounds).

Completely lacking signs of impact or compression of the face against the ground.

In other words, bruising on the face and jaw from a tight grip rather than a blow or impact.

Imagine grabbing someone's face from a frontal position, tightly enough to leave that kind of bruising, with your hand positioned so the fingers are on the underside of the victim's jaw. How believable is that?

Then position your left hand as though you're reaching around to grip the face and cover the mouth and nose of someone who is facing away from you. Notice the position of your fingers. Then look at the photo on Frank's blog.

Common sense goes a long way in this area.

As far as about covering the nose and mouth. I think you would find the arch of the fingertip bruising curving the other way up to the jaw line with the palm covering her nose and mouth. The bruises are turned down suggesting to me a frontal hold , probably related to that wound there. Someone suggested the elbow bruising came from a fall, that also look like finger bruising.

 

[Briars]

No, but she knows the way things work in Perugia, as does Filomena.


No idea. I'd like to hear what you think.

I have no idea but he's a drug supplier isn't he?

 

[Bill Williams]

Why do you think Kokomani might be near the cottage and why implicate the defendants then leave Perugia?

I have no idea but he's a drug supplier isn't he?

..............................................and????????????????????????????????

At least this innuendo, if that's what it is (because I still do not really "get" what you're saying....

..... fits in with the innuendo-based prosecution of Knox and Sollecito. You're aware, are you not, that the prosecution must prove a case?

 

[Briars]

"the prosecution must prove its case" that's a safe assumption I don't need to challenge that.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

"the prosecution must prove its case" that's a safe assumption I don't need to challenge that.

But many on here do every day....

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Think about this for a minute, up at the lake yesterday, late at night I brought up this case with a few friends around a campfire. While they didn't know enough about this case to give any fair opinions on it, we did come to one conclusion. If Amanda were guilty of this crime, there is no way she would willfully go back to Italy, however, if she is innocent, she may go back or may not, therefore, if she does go back willfully, she is innocent. Ok, we were drinking a few as well, but this did seem logical, no?

 

[Wildhorses]

Think about this for a minute, up at the lake yesterday, late at night I brought up this case with a few friends around a campfire. While they didn't know enough about this case to give any fair opinions on it, we did come to one conclusion. If Amanda were guilty of this crime, there is no way she would willfully go back to Italy, however, if she is innocent, she may go back or may not, therefore, if she does go back willfully, she is innocent. Ok, we were drinking a few as well, but this did seem logical, no?

IMO if she goes back, she's crazy. Irrespective of guilt or innocence.

Moreover, something tells me her parents would drop dead if she were to decide to go back.

 

[Grinder]

Who checks the time when they go to the toilet or when they make a tea. Did she realize a murder had been committed at that point or even a crime? No she said she looked out the window and listened . I've woken up heard yelling out my window listened for further trouble then assumed it was teens or something.Checking the time doesn't seem necessary. The fact that it was just a scream and not prolonged screaming meant she had to assess in her mind what she might have heard in those seconds and assume that it was over and hope it was just a scream and not serious.

After one hears the most terrifying scream of one's life. When I wake up for any reason, I glance at the clock that sits on the bed table. I would venture that most people notice the time when they wake.

Now she wakes, probably looks at the clock to see if it's time to pee, gets up and hears this lifetime scream (perfect timing), walks to the window hears running and notes it, upset goes to the kitchen puts up a pot of water sits and waits for it to boil, waits for the tea to steep, makes the cup with milk or sugar, drinks the tea in order to mellow from the trauma but never looks at a clock, no way.

I love the way civic responsibility is no concern.

 

[Grinder]

Yes well the slaps were imagined Donnino said so. I don't imagine her to be a liar. Why do you think Kokomani might be near the cottage and why implicate the defendants then leave Perugia?

Why would you think she wouldn't lie? Read her testimony.

Koko may have driven Rudi there and maybe the third man. He didn't implicate them and leave. He left and came back and met with Mignini probably stupidly thinking the PLE might have figured out he had been there by phone pings.

 

[Grinder]

The day they last see Meredith the day before they are at the scene of her murder. A pretty memorable day for a new couple. Didn't Sollecito need a calender and was upset he couldn't look at one. Was he at a party like he told Kate, did her make love, or had the novelty worn off. Did Amanda eat dinner before leaving for work or was it hours later conflicting with Mr Sollecito's call as she claimed. Sollecito even said she may have gone out. Big difference to not checking the clock by Nara.

It wasn't extra special beyond the new love aspect. How do you know what hew told Kate? You only know what she wrote.

Yes he was at a party just like he told Kate - we all know that the party was the night before.

Since she didn't go to work she definitely ate before going.

Do you have the cite where he said she may have gone out?

Could you give cites for the phone call conflict?

ETA - I forgot but was Nara questioned by 12 detectives in a foreign language with a translator that helped her remember repressed memories? Did Nara face 400 straight hours of police questioning? Did Nara have thumbscrews used while questioned?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

As far as about covering the nose and mouth. I think you would find the arch of the fingertip bruising curving the other way up to the jaw line with the palm covering her nose and mouth. The bruises are turned down suggesting to me a frontal hold , probably related to that wound there. Someone suggested the elbow bruising came from a fall, that also look like finger bruising.

I'm not following you. Perhaps you could use one of the servants at your Italian villa as a model, so you can recreate this face-hold and post a photo.

 

[Grinder]

IMO if she goes back, she's crazy. Irrespective of guilt or innocence.

No **** Shinola.

 

[GreyFox]

IMO if she goes back, she's crazy. Irrespective of guilt or innocence.

Moreover, something tells me her parents would drop dead if she were to decide to go back.

It would be the dumbest thing she's done to date. Travel to her own lynching ?

 

[RWVBWL]

It's after 9:00pm here in L.A.
A Friday night in summer, nice+warm outside.

The StarBucks next door is getting it's regular night time delivery,
I can hear the trucks engine still on...

A car drove by a second ago, I heard its passage...

There is an apartment complex 20 feet from where I am.

This apartment complex is much closer to me in length compared to the darkend gravelly driveway that Miss Meredith Kercher walked down, to get home after spending the afternoon+evening with her gal pals on her last night alive...

My windows and door are closed.

AND I can not hear a single human inhabitant from there,
nor from the folks across the street, nor the people in their houses right next to the apartment complex on this cute street, nor the houses 200 feet away.

Not a word, laugh, or argument.

Weird how an old lady heard a scream from a house hundreds of feet away,
from a place that had the front door closed, the bedroom door closed, the windows suposedly shut...

And her own apartment door was shut,
her own windows closed...